I sold and also used the basic Benjamin wood boilers with the “dutch oven” design. This design is a simple cylinder - nothing else. No enhanced combustion features.
As to boiler sizing, I think you have to have a heat load done on your house. Sq feet is not a good criteria to go by, because construction and climate can differ.
Yes, I am talking about 30-40% on the wood side, keeping in mind that our members here have tested some of the best boilers on the market and only gotten 60% or so. In terms of pollution output, a basic boiler like the B would put out 10x as much than a high efficiency downdraft (gasifier).
I know that the new generation costs more - any way you look at it the total $$ on a hot water wood central heating system can add up fast.
Are you working with a contractor who sells the Benjamin and wants to install it in your house, or did you research this on your own? If the former, did he do a heatloss calc on your house to determine your needs?
You can do your own heat loss calc by downloading the free calculator here:
Hi,
I’m wondering if there’s anyone who can help me with this. I’m in search of a indoor wood/oil boiler. I’ve spoken with Tarm regarding their product; for the most part it appears that their units are too large for my space. My house is approx. 1000 sq. ft. w/hot water baseboard heat. Does anyone have any experience with the Benjamin cc500. Is this a good unit? Additionally what should I be concerning myself with when looking for multi-fuel boilers. Thus far; there doesn’t seem to be many manufactors of combo units.
gshep, The CC-500 may be a good option in your situation, since you are looking to replace an old oil boiler. It would probably cost you about $10,000 to purchase and install in the place of your old boiler. The wood portion of the boiler is not as clean or efficent as the gassifiers, but it provides a cost effective way of burning wood to heat your home and domestic hot water. The oil side of the CC-500 has been tested and yields 85% efficency, with either Riello or Beckett burners. The wood and the oil fire in 2 seperate chambers so that wood smoke does not come into contact with the oil burner. Here are some real world observations: I have operated a Benjamin wood boiler in my home for 3 yrs. Before installing the wood boiler I used 1100 gals of heating oil. I have used about 300 gals of oil and 5 cords of wood to heat my home for the past 3 heating seasons. I am getting about 8 hrs of burn time before re-loading. Burn times will vary with outside temps & type of wood.
Thanks Mainewood for sharing your experience, I will take it into consideration.
Answer to Eric’s question; I researched the Ben; I’m currently researching contractors as well. Most HVAC in this area have little or no experience with Multi-fuel boilers. I asked 2 heating guys and neither of them were familiar.
Thanks Mainewood for sharing your experience, I will take it into consideration.
Answer to Eric’s question; I researched the Ben; I’m currently researching contractors as well. Most HVAC in this area have little or no experience with Multi-fuel boilers. I asked 2 heating guys and neither of them were familiar.
gshep, You may want to get your info. “straight from the horse’s mouth”. I have found Stephen Benjamin, the company’s owner, both helpful & knowegeable. Benjamin Heating Products. 1-800-565-5495
Thank you Mainewood,
I actually tried calling the manufactor last week; I spoke with someone who was suppose to be Tech support and he was very nasty; I hung up on him. If tech support is not going to be support; then why bother. I will try again with hope that my experience be better the 2nd time around
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By the way, are you still using the benjamin? Have you had any problems, leaks, etc? Can you use one side of the boiler predominately, be it wood or oil; without effecting the system. How much space is your unit heating and is that space well insulated.
I apologize for any confusion. To me it doesn’t make any sense to tear out a perfectly good oil boiler and replace it with a wood/oil combination. You’re really better off, from a number of different perspectives--most of which we’ve already discussed--to add a wood-only boiler on to your existing system.
If anybody disagrees with that, I hope they will speak up.
Since you investigated Tarm first, I assume that you want a good wood boiler. When we hear “Tarm” we think wood gasification boilers, since they pioneered that technology in this country, and I believe that’s all Tarm sells now. If the Tarm 30 is too big for your house, then you can get an EKO 25, which as the model number suggests, is smaller than the Tarm. My guess is that you only looked at the Tarm combination boiler, which may indeed be too big for your house.
The nice thing about gasifiers is that they don’t produce any smoke or creosote, so they’re more environmentally friendly than a conventional boiler, require little or no chimney maintenance, and are, as a result, much safer. If you buy a conventional boiler like the Benjamin you are considering, you’ll have to deal with smoke and creosote and the resulting 30-40% efficiency (compared to 80-90%) that results from the smoke going up the stack instead of being burned for heat. A gasifier burns the wood in an upper chamber and then pulls the smoke down into a lower chamber and burns it at around 2,000 degrees. A conventional boiler like the Benjamin CC500 has one firebox, where wood is burned and the smoke is allowed to escape up the stack. The smoke is lost efficiency and air pollution. Simple as that. Most--but not all--gasifiers use a blower to supply air to the burning chambers. Look at the diagram on the left side of the top banner for Cozy Heat. That’s a cutaway view of a downdraft gasifier. If you go to the website you can watch a video of the thing working (pretty impressive) and see all the relevant specifications.
Here’s the link to the manufacturers’ website and the page for the Benjamin CC500. It doesn’t give any details or specifications, so it’s hard to say how big that boiler is, but I’m guessing 75 or 100K btu. The EKO 25, for example, puts out 80K btu per hour. I’m always suspicious of product descriptions that spend a lot of time talking about basically irrelevant product features (i.e., “Dutch Oven” effect) without talking about specifics. What’s its overall efficiency when burning wood? How big is the firebox? What’s the output?
http://www.apimaine.com/CC500.html
And they talk about the “Energy Star” rating, without providing any details, either. My strong hunch is that any Energy Star rating they get will apply to the oil side only--not the wood, despite the strong implication to the contrary.
Thank you Mainewood,
I actually tried calling the manufactor last week; I spoke with someone who was suppose to be Tech support and he was very nasty; I hung up on him. If tech support is not going to be support; then why bother. I will try again with hope that my experience be better the 2nd time around
.
By the way, are you still using the benjamin? Have you had any problems, leaks, etc? Can you use one side of the boiler predominately, be it wood or oil; without effecting the system. How much space is your unit heating and is that space well insulated.
Yes, I am still using the Benjamin and enjoying the fact that I am not burning 1100 gals of fossil fuel. If you want to discuss further, send me an e-mail.
I’m afraid you have lost her. You guys went right over what her primary concerns were after keeping her house heated...” but I’m a middle aged woman who hasn’t the time nor desire to be married to a wood only boiler. I’m looking to simplfy things. What happens during cold spells? How does the wood get into the firebox if I’m away?” So what do you say guys… how does she keep the pipes from freezing if she doesn’t have an automatic fossil fuel backup. Listen to the customer.... I know I’m butting in but I want Gshep to know she is being heard.
I think we’re addressing her concerns. I’m suggesting leaving her existing oil boiler in place as a backup and installing a dedicated wood-fired boiler for primary heat. The alternative is to tear out the existing oil boiler and install a combination wood/oil boiler. My point is that it’s unsafe and inconvenient to vent both oil and wood sides into the same flue. I’ve done it, and I don’t recommend it. I’m also suggesting that it’s unwise to put your entire heating system into one pressure vessel if you can avoid it. Better to have two separate appliances that can be isolated from the system in the event of a problem, such as a leak or a plugged chimney.
Yes, you are right. I knew you were giving her good advice. I thought she may have felt her problems were solved with the CC500 and wanted confirmation. I know what it is like to think you’ve found the solution to your problems only to be told it isn’t going to be that easy. I know you are not salesmen. I appreciate all the genuine support and interest you have shown my concerns. I hope she takes your advice. Would you recommend the Harmon Pellet boilers. Not necessarily to gshep but in general. I am thinking of buying one to solve another heating problem in my life not previously addressed on this chat room.
Having trouble finding a dealer around here for the Harmon Pellet Boiler. I’ll have to call the fellow in Maine I was referred to earlier. About Gshep and the CC500: as I understood you Erik, you were trying to tell her that she can avoid being married to a wood stove by leaving her existing oil burner in place and adding a wood-only gasifying boiler arranged to work in parallell with her oil-fired boiler. By means of a plumbing/electrical circuit that would induce the oil appliance to kick in when her wood-fired boiler is left unattended. Is that right? The caveat being that she would also have to find a way to vent the two appliances independently of one another. Chacnes are, if her existing oil boiler is twenty-five years old, her chimney is not lined. If she puts a wood burning appliance into that flue she will have to line the chimney not only for code compliance but for health and safety. Of course she would want to do this even if she went with the Benjamin CC500. Is venting the oil-boiler out the cellar window something that can be done within code limitations?
From most perspectives, a pellet boiler is an excellent choice. I don’t know anything about specific brands. My only concern with pellets is that their pricing will always track that of oil. If oil goes up a buck a gallon, you can bet that pellets will rise in price accordingly. You’ll probably always save money with pellets, but you have to factor in the initial cost of the boiler vs. oil, and realize that the savings won’t approach those of chunk wood, which can be had in many cases for little or nothing. And the price of raw wood tends to be a lot more stable. But it’s also a lot more work. So it’s more of a lifestyle choice than anything else.
A clay-lined chimney is technically a Class A chimney, I believe, so it would work (and be legal) for a gasifier or conventional wood boiler. It might or might not work as well as that same chimney with a stainless steel liner, but I’d try it first just to see, especially with a gasifier, which won’t produce any creosote.
You’ve got the oil backup/wood-based primary setup right. Why tear out a perfectly good oil boiler and replace it with something that might not work as well? Makes no sense to me. There are plenty of good ways to set the two up to work together. Personally, I just disconnect my gas boiler and use the wood all the time, except on those rare occasions when I’m out of town for more than a day in the winter. Takes about 10 minutes to get it working again.
In gshep’s case, I’d consider power venting the oil boiler (out through the foundation or wall) and use the existing chimney for either a gasifier (half the wood and no smoke, but higher initial cost) or a good conventional wood-fired indoor boiler (lower initial cost but twice the wood consumption, smoke and good chance of creosote).
My motivations are pretty transparent: I believe in burning wood instead of fossil fuels, and I want to encourage people to use the best technology they can afford.
That said, I also believe in supporting our sponsors. Cozy Heat (top banner) has a nice line of pellet-burners that I would encourage you to check out.
The single flue idea is always interesting, but I suppose a lot of code authorities would question the Benjamin (two separate stove pipes) - even if it has a listing. Many would want the chimney to have the capacity to burn both fuels at one time at full bore. Others would simply turn it down and tell you to appeal it. I know because this has happened to me in NJ.
Also, what are the chances of an older oil flue meeting current NFPA? Meaning that it is 2” away from all wood on the whole way up....almost impossible. The chimney therefore must be relined with a smaller pipe - again, a smaller capacity.
So all these things must be taken into account when making a decision. Better to have too many opinions than not enough.
