You’ve got it DMM, the savings is ALL about using less HOT water.  If you wash in cold water you save the most, in fact water is still cheap enough in most US locations that cold water means saving water isn’t saving $$$.  I try to wash everything in cold water on out top loading.  Still, if the new washer/front-load spins dryer/faster,l then that saves if you use a dryer.  I try to dry on a good old fashioned cloths line, outside if possible.  Thus the spin matters little and the air is free, the electric dryer isn’t.

One thing you have to think about and it was mentioned earlier. Is spending twice the money for a new appliance because “it will save you money” really going to save money.  It’s just like people running out a replacing there windows because someone told them it will save you money. The part that they don’t tell you is it will take 20 years for the windows to pay for themselfs. By then they will probably be worn out or you’ll be moved out. So really spending more to save money isn’t worth it unless your a penny pincher and think that spending $1000 to save a dollar a month is worth it.

There’s more to having energy efficiency that just saving money. For example, 18 years ago we spent LOTS of money on windows, which indeed save energy, but will never recover the cost. However, the comfort in freedom from drafts, elimination of condensation, quiet when they are closed, and absolute 0 maintenance was worth everything we spent. Intangible factors are valuable, and each of us makes our own decision as to this value in terms of $’s spent.

There’s a bit more to the equation than that. If energy cost’s were flat and there was no inflation, then maybe the savings would take like 20 years. But energy costs are rising rapidly and so is inflation.

As for savings. We bought a Frigidaire front load washer the year after we moved into our house. It’s actually made by Electrolux of Sweden. The drop in hot water usage was immediate. And as far as repairs, we haven’t put a cent in it going on 13 years now and that is for a family of four. We use less detergent, the clothes definitely are spun drier which means less time in the dryer or on the clothesline. And there is a lot less wear and tear due to washing on the clothes. It was a $300 premium over a standard washer back in 1995, but worth every penny of it.

Another example, we put a heat pump system in 2 seasons ago, strictly for heating (AC isn’t really needed here). This was a premium system and costly. And we insulated wherever possible. Worth it? Well, I haven’t done the numbers by current value of propane but our total heating bill went from about $3000 in 2004, down to $500, much better than I had hoped for. If I add a value for the free wood I was burning it would still be only $900 to heat this old farmhouse. And as Jim pointed out, our comfort is much higher. Sometimes you have to spend money to save money. Do it wisely and it will pay back for years.

Jim, in Northern MN I’d bet on you’re saving enough money to pay for the window improvement, gets rather cold there, right?  And as for savings $300 due to a reduction in hot water needs for cloths washing, that would be easy here in NJ, electric rates are at least twice what it cost in the Puget Sound area, I’d guess.  I don’t have the rates now, but when I graduated from the U of W in Seattle in 1966, we were paying something like 7/10 of a cent per KWH.  When I arrived in NJ it was about 3 cents per KWH, over three times as much.  Then it was due to the low cost of hydroelectric power in the NW, that may have changed.  Today I pay about 15 cents per KWH in NJ, what’s it cost in Seattle, 5 cents?

“The dryer is much more efficient also but I think it is due in large part to the speed that the washer spins (twice as fast as the old unit).”

Dryers are not much, if any, more efficient now than ever. The difference is that you are loading in mostly dry clothes so the dryer’s elements are not running as long. Also not sucking as much of your heated house air out the vent.

“Today I pay about 15 cents per KWH in NJ, what’s it cost in Seattle, 5 cents?”

8-10 cents per KWH after all the BS.

Yahoo had one of their news articles a week or so back that showed how you might as well keep your 15 mpg SUV vs. buying a 30 mpg vehicle as far as actual costs. There are a lot of people spending a lot of money to save a little money without doing the math. Some do the math and then add value to other aspects like conservation to make them feel better about a purchase.

Yahoo had one of their news articles a week or so back that showed how you might as well keep your 15 mpg SUV vs. buying a 30 mpg vehicle as far as actual costs. There are a lot of people spending a lot of money to save a little money without doing the math. Some do the math and then add value to other aspects like conservation to make them feel better about a purchase.

Although current conditions may have altered the math some, this is an area where I think you can have your cake and it eat it too. 1986 is the year we bought our last new car. All since have been used. We are very partial towards Toyota Camrys, not that there are not other good cars, but we have had long term, consistent performance of the highest quality with Camrys; bought these used with up to 85000 miles on them, have run them well into the 200,000’s, and have never had a serious problem, almost only normal maintenance, and have gotten a consistent 32-35 mpg.

My 1989 Camry bought for $6000 at 80,000 miles, sold it for $2000 years later with 230,000 miles - $.027/mile purchase cost. The 1992 Camry bought used for $6500 at 30,000, sold it for $1900 years later with 238,000 miles - $.031/mile purchase cost. I am still driving my 1999 Camry at 195,000 miles, and expect to run this well into the 200’s. Two weeks ago we just took it for 1200 miles to and from Chicago; just put new tires on it; no rust; only oil changes plus normal maintenance (scheduled at every 60,000 which we put off to about every 75,000 miles).

Buy a quality used car, do the math, and run them for a long time. Public Radio had a show years ago that claimed if you always bought a used car (2-3 years old) and ran it for its practical life, the money you saved would allow you to retire 5 years later. I believe that firmly.

Our neighbor bought a new American brand SUV, and when it reached 60,000 miles said it was time to trade as expected maintenance cost did not make it worth keeping. I’m not saying he was correct, but as far as I am concerned a good car is barely broken in at 60,000 miles.

Take a new SUV at say $25,000 (don’t know the price because would never buy one) and run it for 230,00 miles (if you can), purchase cost is $.11/mile - about 4 times the price of buying used. Why?

My wife and I live a mile down a gravel road in northern MN, lots of snow, and in 18 years have only “needed” 4 wheel drive twice, that is, on two occasions were snowed in for 12-24 hours before the road was plowed. I suppose one of us could have died in that time, but we all die anyway, so why the concern?

I can’t ever imagine buying a new car. Let someone else pay the steep early depreciation, and I will take it to the bank as I enjoy my early retirement.

I have a similar car buy/operate place except:
1) I always buy new
2) keep for 10-15 years
2) never put more than 200,000

I can’t help but wonder about reports of over 200.000 miles with only routine maintenance.  The only car I ran to 190,000+ was a 1986 Toyota Tercel 4WD Wagon.  It was a very good car and had exceptional resuts in terms of the engine/drive-train, still had it original clutch (manual transmission).  But it was clear this car was at the end-of-life when I “donated” it.  It had lots of break problems, and the exhaust wasn’t real great either.  Major strut and some other repairs also came along the way.  My 1990 Galant Mitsubushi was near death at 150,000, had gone through 3 clutches, well was on the thrid which was beginning to slip, but the stainless steel exhaust was still original… can’t say enough about the benefit/value of SS exhaust (noted it was on the 2008 Chevy Impala on the show room floor when I was in getting my 2005 Chevy Colorado serviced - warranty repair).  The Japanese cars clearly out performed my previous GM/Ford/Plymouth experience, but I returned to US made in 2005.

With these examples I figure I got my vehicle cost down to a bit over 10 cents per mile, were I took both what I paid (fully depreciated) plus repairs.  So hearing/reading someone gets to under 5 cents per mile leaves me in wonderment.

Gooserider:

This may or may not factor into your equation relating to a new washer, but I would think the first thing one would ask is “How well does it wash”.  The second should be “How dry does it spin ?  The third should be ‘Does it damage my expensive clothes ?”

I can assure you that if you are acustomed to top loaders, getting a real good side loader will be an eye opener in these 3 departments.  I bought a new Bosch washer and dryer just after I met my wife and we argued tooth and nail over the washer, since she and her mother had worked with top loaders all their lives.  The side loading was percieved to be less comfortable and the top loader percieved to be more reliable.

I stuck to my guns and my wife was really surprised how good the washer actually was.  It has the soap/softener/bleach dosing drawer, is super quiet (other than on max spin) is very gentle on clothes (really uses gravity for agitation) and it dries the clothes so well with the 1200rpm spin cycle that drying time is about half the washing time (in winter, when we don’t use the clothes line).

So take it from me:  If my Chicargoan wife can become a convert, so can you....  I did have various maytag top loaders shred my towels and stain white clothes from rust residue from unprotected steel parts during my apartment days....

Keith