This is even better than when I became a ‘burning chunk’.
I’ve added wiring schematics to the initial post in my pressurized storage sticky.
As far as I can tell, it’s a closed thread, so there’s no vehicle to collect comments, corrections, and improvements. In the very likely case that someone finds something to add, perhaps a response to this thread will serve. I can still edit my post, so I’ll update / improve as needed.
Actually, it will make a good basis for an article (which can actually beat a sticky in some ways).........
anyway, thanks for the pretty amazing explanation and drawing. If I were a boiler company, I would be contacting you and asking to use it (with credit, of course!).
My only comment is that you can get a new aquastat like the Honeywell L6006A1145 for around $20 on Ebay if you’re reasonably patient.
I don’t want the sticky thing to get out of control, but I think we can avoid that by eventually combining this kind of excellent thread with others on similar topics into one sticky. So, the sticky “Storage Considerations and Options” would consist of a brief discussion/explanation, followed by links to this piece on pressurized storage and another one on non-pressurized storage. Ditto for parallel vs serial boiler setups and hotrod’s piece on primary/secondary piping schemes. That one could be called “Piping Possibilities.” Ideally, I’d like to see about half a dozen stickies covering broad categories (our FAQs), linking to threads on specific facets of the main topic.
My only comment is that you can get a new aquastat like the Honeywell L6006A1145 for around $20 on Ebay if you’re reasonably patient.
I don’t want the sticky thing to get out of control, but I think we can avoid that by eventually combining this kind of excellent thread with others on similar topics into one sticky. So, the sticky “Storage Considerations and Options” would consist of a brief discussion/explanation, followed by links to this piece on pressurized storage and another one on non-pressurized storage. Ditto for parallel vs serial boiler setups and hotrod’s piece on primary/secondary piping schemes. That one could be called “Piping Possibilities.” Ideally, I’d like to see about half a dozen stickies covering broad categories (our FAQs), linking to threads on specific facets of the main topic.
Anyway, thanks to nofo for blazing the way.
Good call on the eBay reference. I’m conflicted about mentioning sources to be helpful vs. being scrupulously non-commercial.
Perhaps what we need at some point is a ‘Resource Room’ that contains only stickies. There was some discussion in the past about creating a meta-thread that pointed to useful threads. Anything that makes it easier for folks to find the threads with meat in them would help to reduce the amount of re-explaining that happens otherwise.
I’m not holding my breath about getting credit from anyone, but that’s not why I’m in this game anyway. I just hope that we can move this technology forward in a way that benefits as many people as possible.
I hope a few other hard-core experts review this and catch any mistakes I might have made. I’d really hate for someone to follow this as if it were a recipe and then run into problems.
The new sticky is a wonderful resource. Thanks. Minor detail, but would there be a way to stack the image attachments one on top of the other so that we don’t have to scroll side to side to read the text above them?
The new sticky is a wonderful resource. Thanks. Minor detail, but would there be a way to stack the image attachments one on top of the other so that we don’t have to scroll side to side to read the text above them?
Ron
I think that’s a question for Web. I would have done the additional images as replies to the original post, but he locked it to keep it as a pristine thread. That’s a wonderful thing in most ways, but it limits my options. Note - it’s fine on my 3200 pixel wide screen
By zone valve limit switches I assume you mean end switches?
The only part I am having trouble with… Lets say there is a call for heat on one bb zone. Wood boiler and circ is running, storage at or below 180F. as I understand it the system circ will also be running? Doesn’t this put the boiler circ and system circ in series and create some excessive velocity issue? What determines how much flows down into storage, and how much goes to the zone?
Would a motorized 3 way zone valve be a good application so either the boiler feeds directly, or the storage does. Although one zone may not be enough load for the boiler under some conditions. It would be interesting to install some flow gauges to see what happens under different load conditions. Strap on thermostats would give you some idea, but flow sensitive measurement would be more accurate.
Bottom line… if it works, heats, is noise free, and consumes the wood you are comnfortable with, bingo. Thanks again for sharing this work.
Once again the challenge to any good project is keeping it simple while efficient.
The only other problem for me is making the retrofit from my current traditional baseboard system to the method shown. It would be a lot of piping changes. I have some kind of hybrid approach in the works and hope to have the drawing done soon.
By zone valve limit switches I assume you mean end switches?
Thanks. Yes, I think they’re called ‘end switches’ in that application. In my world, the same physical device is usually called a limit switch. In any event, it’s the switch whose contacts close when the zone valve is open.
The only part I am having trouble with… Lets say there is a call for heat on one bb zone. Wood boiler and circ is running, storage at or below 180F. as I understand it the system circ will also be running? Doesn’t this put the boiler circ and system circ in series and create some excessive velocity issue? What determines how much flows down into storage, and how much goes to the zone?
It does put them in series, and would result in a bit more flow through the loop than you would get with a single circ. As far as the split between the zone and storage, the system circ will ensure that you have adequate flow through the zones. If the boiler circ puts out a higher flow rate than that, the difference goes through storage. If you’re dealing with high flow rate pumps, it would be important to have a large diameter connection to the top of the storage. You could actually have two adjacent connections to the top of the storage, so that the boiler is always feeding the top of storage and the system circ is always drawing from th top of storage. In that way, it would eliminate the ‘pumps in series’ phenomenon. I did draw it with tees oriented to help hydraulically separate the pumps.
I also expect that the way it’s drawn, there will be very little pressure drop in the boiler - storage loop, and especially almost no pressure drop from the storage top to the storage bottom. If that’s the case, then the system circ would not be able to tell whether the boiler circ is running, and vice versa - they would not affect each other.
Would a motorized 3 way zone valve be a good application so either the boiler feeds directly, or the storage does. Although one zone may not be enough load for the boiler under some conditions. It would be interesting to install some flow gauges to see what happens under different load conditions. Strap on thermostats would give you some idea, but flow sensitive measurement would be more accurate.
Bottom line… if it works, heats, is noise free, and consumes the wood you are comnfortable with, bingo. Thanks again for sharing this work.
hr
Thanks for the analysis. My sense is that additional complexity and expense such as a 3 way valve might be necessary in larger and more complex installations, but would not be needed in systems on the scale that I’ve drawn. Does that seem right to you, given my thoughts above on hydraulics?
Once again the challenge to any good project is keeping it simple while efficient.
The only other problem for me is making the retrofit from my current traditional baseboard system to the method shown. It would be a lot of piping changes. I have some kind of hybrid approach in the works and hope to have the drawing done soon.
Mike
See my thoughts above - make sense to you?
I tried to come up with an approach that would be easy as a retrofit. Sorry if it’s not so simple in your case :-(
This may end up being a good place to put relatively complete posts like that one, and then link to them from a sticky…..that way, there will be less stickies in the long run. We’ll see what the crowd says.
nofossil, Thanks again for your excellent post “Simplest Pressurized Storage Solution”
I plan on going with a 500 gallon propane pressurized tank. I now have my TarmSolo40 piped parallel to my oil boiler without storage as per Tarm instructions. I’d like to utilize my oil boiler to feed my zones and SuperStor DHW. Not bypass it as I believe you do in your drawings. I’m thinking of going from the Tarm, feeding either the storage tank or oil boiler with a 3-way zone valve, oil boiler will be primary if its aquastat calls for heat. Then from the storage tank feeding the oil boiler with an additional circulator. Do you have any thoughts on this?
Total of three circulators, one 3-way zone valve.
I wish I had a pipe drawing program.
nofossil, Thanks again for your excellent post “Simplest Pressurized Storage Solution”
I plan on going with a 500 gallon propane pressurized tank. I now have my Tarm piped parallel to my oil boiler without storage as per Tarm instructions. I’d like to utilize my oil boiler to feed my zones and SuperStor DHW. Not bypass it as I believe you do in your drawings. I’m thinking of going from the Tarm, feeding either the storage tank or oil boiler with a 3-way zone valve, oil boiler will be primary if its aquastat calls for heat. Then from the storage tank feeding the oil boiler with an additional circulator. Do you have any thoughts on this?
I’m looking at a similar approach and have a boiler inbound and a 500 gallon tank on hand.
All seems perfect until I realized that the leftover propane stink is something I don’t want contaminating
my house/heating system… that stuff is as persistent as it is nasty.. .. Either isolate the tank
via heat exchanger or a new tank.. Unless I can absolutely get that stuff out of the tank to a like new
condition I’m very leery of hooking up a used propane tank to my heating system..Imagine it’s middle of
winter and something fails and releases this into your house…whew…what a mess…it never goes away…OMG
Can the propane stink (mercaptan) be successfully flushed? I heard chlorine bleach, hydrogen peroxide. What works the best?
I’m gonna give this place that sells refurbished tanks a call. They want 950.00 for a 500 gallon propane tank. No delivery. That’s top dollar. I’ll see if they can throw in a flush.
