Karen, soon you will know more about your stove then the person who sold it to you. I agree, this place is a great resource, for dealers and consumers both. I usually learn something new here everyday.
Karen I have refurbished that stove and given it to famillies in need of econimic heat relief. you have the moma Bear stove model.
that stove is capable of putting out a lot of heat. Usually I take a very hard stand concerning these stove installations but your situation is different. At least you have a stove built like a tank it could fall out of a pickup truck and only damage the asphalt. Fishers were made in New Hamshire from about 1976 -1985 all ones made after 1979 were ul listed Look on the back there should be a lable
You May PM Private message me your town and state location and have one of these very knowledgeable member take a look and make sure all is safe I live in Easter MA. Welcome aboard the hearth I hope as you learn and discover wood buring, that you actively participate and share your experiences here
Thanks “Lored Of Fire”, as long as it is safe. I will post after gasket is fixed and let it known how is going and if I have any other questions. This is an old house with a lot of wood inside and out including the floors and ceiling..so I worry. I assume the installation is safe but really I wont ever know unless someone comes out to check it. I wish I could have just been able to afford to get my own and then I could have come here for advice but that isn’t the case. I will keep reading and any advice on safety is MUCH appreciated. I have everything at least 3 feet from the stove. Some farther away.
What is worst for me is leaving and having it going. I have 2 dogs here so having a fire going while i am gone. I need to make sure nothing will happen.
Thanks for the help and the info on it being a “Momma Bear” stove
I applaud your willingness to take advice and try to apply it to make sure your stove installation is safe. I hesitate to say what I am about to say. But you will probably respond to it well because you are trying to learn.
The fact is, we cannot tell you it is safe. We simply do not know what your installation looks like and cannot tell from here on the internet if it is okay.
I also appreciate the intent of the advice you have recieved here from forum participants. These are a great group of people who really do care about your safety. Unfortunately, you may have received a few bad peices of advice and you should be careful about accepting the opinions of well meaning folks as an assurance of safety. They are not safety professionals. They care. But they are only sharing their opinions.
First, the Fisher was not originally designed to use gaskets. Now, as elk mentioned he has refurbished some that were using gaskets. It MAY be okay to use gaskets to seal the doors but you must understand first how the wood combustion process works. You could restrict the air flow too much and create a volatile situation. Or, you could inhibit the proper sealing of the doors, leading to over-firing and damage to the steel.
If you are not careful, burning a small hot fire at the wrong time could start a chimney fire. The Fisher, when restricted too much, can contribute to rapid creosote build-up. A hot fire after a low fire can cause a chimney fire. A chimney fire at the wrong moment can cause a house fire.
I do not want to scare you unnecessarily. But we cannot tell from here if you have a chimney that can withstand a chimney fire. So far, I have not heard that you had an insulated liner system installed all the way to the top of the chimney. I also have not heard if your masonry fireplace and chimney have passed safety codes for use with a wood stove. I also cannot see your wood pile or watch you operate the stove.
Frankly, the Fisher is one of the worst choices that could have been made for a novice to start learning how to operate a wood stove. Your chances of having problems are MUCH higher with that stove than any modern stove that may be purchased for about $500. A used Encore or Dutchwest may be had for that amount. Or even a new Drolet, or Century. Why they chose an old Fisher I cannot say. But if I were you I would tread lightly and work hard to get that thing out of your house.
I understand that times are hard for you right now and that you may not have as much control over the property on which you dwell. But you cannot let others make decisions that put your life at risk. There are better choices. They can sell the Fisher to someone else who has a less risky situation and who perhaps is already an experienced wood burner. At the very least, they need to invest in a UL Listed chimney system that can withstand a chimney fire and that is easy to clean and maintain. Their property is at risk also.
I’m sorry to be such a downer. But I am a professional hearth technician and I have seen many costly mistakes hurt innocent people. It can be done with relative safety. There are many of us who routinely leave our house for hours while the wood stove does it’s job unattended. We have come to trust in our systems as being safe because we have learned how to assess the risks and take the necessary precautions. One of the things we have learned is that the weakest part of the system is the chimney. Do not take it lightly. If you do not have a UL Listed chimney you should not be burning that Fisher. If you cannot have a UL Listed chimney it should at least be code compliant for use with a wood stove.
I applaud your willingness to take advice and try to apply it to make sure your stove installation is safe. I hesitate to say what I am about to say. But you will probably respond to it well because you are trying to learn.
The fact is, we cannot tell you it is safe. We simply do not know what your installation looks like and cannot tell from here on the internet if it is okay.
I also appreciate the intent of the advice you have recieved here from forum participants. These are a great group of people who really do care about your safety. Unfortunately, you may have received a few bad peices of advice and you should be careful about accepting the opinions of well meaning folks as an assurance of safety. They are not safety professionals. They care. But they are only sharing their opinions.
First, the Fisher was not originally designed to use gaskets. Now, as elk mentioned he has refurbished some that were using gaskets. It MAY be okay to use gaskets to seal the doors but you must understand first how the wood combustion process works. You could restrict the air flow too much and create a volatile situation. Or, you could inhibit the proper sealing of the doors, leading to over-firing and damage to the steel.
If you are not careful, burning a small hot fire at the wrong time could start a chimney fire. The Fisher, when restricted too much, can contribute to rapid creosote build-up. A hot fire after a low fire can cause a chimney fire. A chimney fire at the wrong moment can cause a house fire.
I do not want to scare you unnecessarily. But we cannot tell from here if you have a chimney that can withstand a chimney fire. So far, I have not heard that you had an insulated liner system installed all the way to the top of the chimney. I also have not heard if your masonry fireplace and chimney have passed safety codes for use with a wood stove. I also cannot see your wood pile or watch you operate the stove.
Frankly, the Fisher is one of the worst choices that could have been made for a novice to start learning how to operate a wood stove. Your chances of having problems are MUCH higher with that stove than any modern stove that may be purchased for about $500. A used Encore or Dutchwest may be had for that amount. Or even a new Drolet, or Century. Why they chose an old Fisher I cannot say. But if I were you I would tread lightly and work hard to get that thing out of your house.
I understand that times are hard for you right now and that you may not have as much control over the property on which you dwell. But you cannot let others make decisions that put your life at risk. There are better choices. They can sell the Fisher to someone else who has a less risky situation and who perhaps is already an experienced wood burner. At the very least, they need to invest in a UL Listed chimney system that can withstand a chimney fire and that is easy to clean and maintain. Their property is at risk also.
I’m sorry to be such a downer. But I am a professional hearth technician and I have seen many costly mistakes hurt innocent people. It can be done with relative safety. There are many of us who routinely leave our house for hours while the wood stove does it’s job unattended. We have come to trust in our systems as being safe because we have learned how to assess the risks and take the necessary precautions. One of the things we have learned is that the weakest part of the system is the chimney. Do not take it lightly. If you do not have a UL Listed chimney you should not be burning that Fisher. If you cannot have a UL Listed chimney it should at least be code compliant for use with a wood stove.
Please be careful.
Sean
I don’t understand your opinion of not to have small hot fires?
We have been preached to for years that Small hot fires are SAFER and better than LARGE SMOLDERING fires. From the Chimney Sweep Guild to the EPA and Local Air resource boards.
What I was telling her was that if you have a 4 cubic foot fire box but you are heating a small area that you do not want to fill the firebox full of wood and have a smoldering fire.
A Slow burring large fire is going to be far more dangerous that a Small Hot fire for a smoldering fire is going to build up 3rd stage Creosote.
I would be careful of stepping on some people’s toes and saying that we (some of the pros Giving advise) are not chimney professionals. We are just trying to help her with her current situation to make a poor working stove work a little better. Sure the Fisher is a stove most of use Hearth Pros would rather use as our Boat anchor but this is all she has to work with at this time.
She has no choice on what stove she has to use for she is a renter and not the home owner.
I am a Hearth pro for the past 18 and a fire safety expert for I have been a Paid call firefighter for 15 years and a Fire Prevention Specialist for the State of California.
I don’t understand your opinion of not to have small hot fires?
We have been preached to for years that Small hot fires are SAFER and better than LARGE SMOLDERING fires. From the Chimney Sweep Guild to the EPA and Local Air resource boards.
What I was telling her was that if you have a 4 cubic foot fire box but you are heating a small area that you do not want to fill the firebox full of wood and have a smoldering fire.
A Slow burring large fire is going to be far more dangerous that a Small Hot fire for a smoldering fire is going to build up 3rd stage Creosote.
I would be careful of stepping on some people’s toes and saying that we (some of the pros Giving advise) are not chimney professionals. We are just trying to help her with her current situation to make a poor working stove work a little better. Sure the Fisher is a stove most of use Hearth Pros would rather use as our Boat anchor but this is all she has to work with at this time.
She has no choice on what stove she has to use for she is a renter and not the home owner.
I am a Hearth pro for the past 18 and a fire safety expert for I have been a Paid call firefighter for 15 years and a Fire Prevention Specialist for the State of California.
Please forgive me Rod. I did not mean to slight anyone. I respect your opinions and I understand that you are a professional. I only intended to remind Karen that we are sharing our opinions only, me included. We really cannot tell if her stove install is safe or not.
It is my belief that a hot fire in that stove at the wrong time can help create a chimney fire. You and I both know how to work through the challenges that are faced with a big old dirty buring stove. This is a difficult thing to learn and we have had a lot of practice. It is far more risky for Karen to attempt to do anything with that stove if she does not have a safe chimney. I wanted to emphasize the need for a safe chimney system BEFORE she tries anythng else.
I do not disagree with your advice to burn small hot fires. Or the recommendation to replace the gasketing. On their own these may be good things to try. We simply cannot predict what will happen in the hands of a novice. First things first. Make sure that chimney can withstand a chimney fire.
Is there a damper installed in the stove pipe? If not, there definitely should be. From what you are saying about the burn time and the heat output it sounds like there is no damper installed. Is this right? My parent’s stove has no gaskets around the doors, it never has.
My parents have this exact stove. The big plus is that it can generate tremendous heat, and is virtually indestructable. The downside is that it burns very dirty (especially once you start dampering it down), and the chimney should be checked AT LEAST twice a burning season if you burn the stove as a primary heat source.
If there is a damper installed, try out the following when burning:
1) Open damper all the way to light
2) Open inlets about half way each
3) Start fire
4) Burn until stove is heated
5) Close inlet holes and damper down as needed to produce steady heat (this step takes some practice, since you have 2 variables - the damper and the inlets, but after a while you’ll get the feel for it). Never close the inlet holes all the way! Also, the strange thing will be that when you start to close the damper, the stove will actually get HOTTER, since all the heat isn’t going up the chimney.
I’m not sure what these guys are going for with the “short, small hot fires” advice. Once you get the stove heated up, load it to the gills, get that load burning, and damper down to lengthen the burn. Sure, it’s going to smoke like hell, but that is how you will get a long consistent burn out of it. Just make sure to check the chimney often, as that method will build up some serious creosote.
Keep a close eye on it until you get it all figured out, this stove can burn like the fires of hell.
I have heated our 2,000 sq ft ranch house with a Fisher Grandmother Bear (MaMa) since Oct, 1980. The first 3 years were our learning curve & this knowledge I pass to you. There were no door gaskets when we bought it, are none now, & we use no damper. The control of the heater are the two screw openings in the doors, which are adjusted to the temperature reading of a “Condar” thermometer which is located 2‘-0“ above the heater flue on the stove pipe.
(For safety & effective burn you must know the heater’s temp. Since you do not have a metal chimney perhaps hearth owners, or others with a heater fireplace insert, will suggest a suitable temp gauge to help you?)
MaMa is not in a fireplace, it is connected to an inside house 8” metal chimney. The pipe temperature is maintained @ 300-400 degrees, except at startup which is @ 500. If the outside temp is going to be 60+ the morning fire is allowed to go out since the heater & 12‘ of brick wall absorb heat & thus keep the house nice for hours.
After the first year I bought 4 additional firebrick to use as a grate. The bricks are 2“ thick, 4“ wide, & 8“ long. I put 2 on each side, end to end from front to the rear of the heater, & stood them on the 2” side. That clearance makes an easy starting much quicker fire. Wood is then put into the heater, from side to side, so that it sits on these bricks.
I put rolled cardboard, cut with a box knife into 9”x18” strips, next to kindling beneath the first level of wood which are 4 round limbs 2-3” thick. On top of those limbs are 2 / 3 splits, depends on what the outside temp will be in the next 4 hours, that are 4-6” thick. Newspaper is installed, lit, & the left door closed. Rolled cardboard is added thru the open right door until the first level of limbs ignites.
The screws are opened all the way & at 250 degrees the right door closed. When the temp reaches 400 the screws are quickly closed & re-opened 2-½ turns each. On our heater, & depending on the type of wood burned, this usually results in the temp leveling out in the 500-600 degree zone. That zone is maintained by adjusting the screw on the left door, & right door if closing the left does not stop the temp rise past 500.
Caution! If the temp goes above 500 close both screws until it drops back to 450- 500. Then the screw on the right door is opened one full turn. If the temp continues to drop it is opened another full turn for each 100 degree drop. Once the temp starts to rise I close that screw ½ turn for each 100 degree rise until the temp levels out @ 500.
After @ 15 minutes @ 500 burn close the left screw. If closing it does not start the temp down in a couple of minutes the other screw is turned in one full turn. Once the temp starts down it usually takes 5-10 minutes of adjusting the right door’s screw to get to 300-400 which is the heater’s run zone. Now there is only one screw open & its on the right door.
About 1-½ hours later the coals & some un-burnt wood will be on the left side at the rear. Using a gardening do-dad (it is 16“ long, has 9 fingers ¼” wide, & spans 5”) the coals & wood are raked forward to the right. Next install 4-6” wood split(s) & close the door. I use old leather gloves for this work bought at Walmart for $10.
Caution! Should you get flame, smoke, & puffing sound out of the door screws, close both & note the temp. This is called back-puffing. Since you had the doors gasketed you might not hear the heater squealing. If you do it is because it is trying to suck air into the firebox. Just watch the temp gauge, wait until it starts down, & when below 500 open the right door screw one full turn. But keep an eye on the temp gauge! If after a couple minutes it continues to drop then open that screw another full turn, etc.
We burn wood stored in an open 3 sided shed that is at least 2-3 years under cover. The south side of our shed is enclosed in glass & spans 24’ L x 7’ H with the end of the wood pointed at the glass. That positioning results in @ a 6% moisture content (mc) reading on my Delmhorst J-Lite moisture meter. That 6% is because the sun draws the moisture out the end of the wood fibers thru capillary action. Turn the wood broadside & there is little such action so the mc will be @ 15-20%.
We run our heater with small hot fires in the day that take a 4-6” sized split every 1 ½ hour or so. The only time our chimney smokes is when a fire is started or more wood is added, & then @ 5 minutes. After that there is so little smoke that it is barely seen.
Consequently there is very little creosote that Sean has, rightfully, warned you about. The first two years I swept our chimney twice & once a year thereafter. But after @ 10 years I stopped since there was so little ash/creosote. I swept the chimney this year in order to check out the Metalbestos pipe & got @ a 12 oz can of ash & creosote. That is a 17 year accumulation.
No, I’m not suggesting that your landlord forget sweeping annually. None of us have seen your flue, know the mc of the wood that you are going to burn this year, or the temp you are going to burn such at, etc. Sean has correctly warned you about the flue since that is generally where the weak link in the wood heating scenario is.
Only an onsite inspection by a experienced professional can determine your heater & flue’s condition. My 27 year experience with our Fisher is merely to help you in your learning curve to know what to do, look for, & the reason why you should do so.
Anytime that you have a question please pm me. Us bears gotta stick together as we’re becoming an endangered species.
Hi Bitterbee, and welcome to the wonderful world of wood-burning.
I’m glad to see you have been getting some of the help you need understanding this stove.
I have the exact same model in my camp, and have been using it for over 10 years. As pointed out by many, virtually indestructable, and (in my opinion) a very good stove in its’ day. My understanding also is that they did not usually come with a door gasket, but that it was a popular add-on since the door tolerances could be a little looser than desired, especially after many years of wear on the hinges. Mine has a gasket installed, (actually, probabley needs changing too) and this does seem to help with keeping better control of the stove. When first lit with the dampers open, it can get hot pretty fast if using good dry wood.
I’ve never had much luck getting anything longer than about a 5 hour burn out of mine, unless I close the dampers almost completely...but..when you do this, the stove smolders pretty bad, as has been mentioned in other posts. Keeps the fire burning longer, but likely doesn’t contribute to neighbourly relations. I don’t have any problem as my nearest neighbour at the camp is miles away, and I clean the stove pipe regularly.
I ws to get notices in email when i had messages here...but I didn’t get any so i am just now checking and see I have a lot to respond to.
Okay inside the door is mesh cloth going around it (like agasket) your saying that should not be there or be replaced?
They put a metal pipe (insulated??) I don’t know if was insulated. All I know is I saw it and was a shiny metal plain pipe.
There is no damper.
They guy who installed it did not work on chimney because he was putting that pipe in. He said that would be ok. Now I have a big problem because I know the landlords are not going to take this thing out, and inittally the guy said fix the chimney and could just use the fireplace though that is not an efficient heat source or install this wood stove with a pipe so using pipe not chimney.
He never came out the other day, he is now coming this Thursday morning.
Please help me in what to ask him.
Is it dangerous to use this constantly? I am a bit confused now. Also upset...can anyone private message me and help me through this? I don’t know what to think now.
I feel like i have no control, damage is done. This is a bad year for me and seems to be getting worse. So I am assuming is bad to have had this thing installed, remember though i did not pick it. I merely was trying to heat this home as the way is set up (walls of stone with no insulation) there is no heat virtually downstairs. The furnace upstairs heats upstairs but vents to downstairs in seiling and just can’t keep downstairs warm at all.
I don’t want something unsafe but don’t know what to do. The landlords were not happy about installing this initially. Anyone who rents knows how landlords are and they just put a lot of money into fixing the pipe.
How often does this “pipe” need to be checked for creosote build up?
Is this mesh thing around door to not be repaired? I did fix the door, it seemed to be not closing right and now shuts better and burns slower. So I don’t have him replace that mesh thing?
I wish I had pictures.
I am so sorry for taking up so much time here.
Now am more worried. Please help.
I don’t know why, but everything just seems so hard this year and this is making it worse, all because of money, I couldn’t just go research and buy and have the best person install....it was all out of my hands.
please help me in trying to make this safe. Or if it isn’t ever going to be???
Forgot, this chimney can’t be up to code. It is 106 years old. : (
I am certain it has never been deemed fire safe, so maybe it is but guess probably isn’t. Is the pipe going up it all the way, is that safe, seemed like regular metal stove pipe, silver in color.
Karen why don’t you post your general location (not where you specifically live just the general area), like “Around Pittsburgh” or “I am in Eastern Nebraska” or whatever. Then if there is a hearth.com member around maybe they could come and put an eye on that stove and installtion for you. If you are uncomfortable with some stranger from the Internet then stop by your local fire station and ask if one of the fireman will come and take a look.
Don’t tell the fireman that you have been getting advice online. Just tell them that your landlord had a stove installed and you would appreciate a fire professional taking a look at it and giving you advice on using it. If they see anything wrong they will tell you about it.
The firemen would much rather meet you over a cup of coffee than in the middle of the night dressed in full gear.
That would totally depend on what is wrong, if anything is wrong, and how big the job would be to fix it. No need to worry about that until you know if something is wrong.
Either way you need somebody there to show you how to operate that stove.
When your installer comes out to check the door gasket ask him what type of pipe he used to line the chimney, and if he insulated the liner (pipe). From what you’ve described it sounds like a pretty typical install & chimney relining. Although as others have stated...we don’t know any specifics and we haven’t SEEN your setup.
As Brother Bart advised, you need to get another set of eyes involved, someone who has experience with stove installs and setups or at least is familiar with the codes in your area.
Also...go out and pick up a disposable camera, snaps lots o pics, and post them here. The people here who know “what’s what” will then be able to give you more direct answers to your questions.
I will try and ask him more questions and get answers though I wish they had used somone differen’t. I imagine he considers what was done safe. If there is any other questions I should ask him please let me know.
I don’t know how I would get pictures now but will try. Around the stove he had made cast iron panels because the typical..darn I forget the name, the thing they put in front of it would not fit so he made the metal panels to close up around the stove. So I have no way to really show the pipe. I know the pipe had nothing inside of it. Just metal pipe, silver colored. Which goes to the top and then there is a cap they put on the top.
I know am not much help decribing this..best I can do.
So can someone tell me, this plain pipe that goes all the way up the chimney (attached to the back of the stove) does protect the chimney I am assuming because everything is contained in the pipe? Nothing can really touch the chimney.
Also I wanted to mention that there is a lot of stone (although very old stone) a good amount surrounding my stove. The stone fireplace has very thick stone walls. Though very OLD stone walls but they go out even around the chimney not just the mantle are part of the wall. They are big old stone. So alot of stone around it and the part in front of it is stone, like stone slab before it gets to floor. So that is good right?
I am going to read ALL the articles again about burning.
I did start a fire in it again now that I got the door to fully close and it did burn a bit better and does get very hot. It was down to 40’s at night here and stayed very very warm in here. But really the way this all is sounding I am not comfortable burnging this thing all the time for heat...I guess if there is a chimney fire I will know it???
The guy and his workers acted like this is so safe, I DID ask questions if your wondering and was stresing how safety was most important to me but they assured me it is fine and nothing to worry about.
It’s normal to be a little paranoid about heating with wood. Sounds like you have a stainless steel liner all the way to the top of the chimney? This is good! Ask them if it’s stainless steel. It will take some trial and error to figure out how the stove works best for you. The most important thing is to use dry wood! (seasoned for 1 year after being split) The dryer the wood, the more heat and less creasote it will produce.
Also like Brother Barts idea. Talk to a local fire department, explain your situation, and see if someone would come by to check it out.
I would also re-read Daves post on how he runs his Fisher. Print it out for reference. He’s been burning the same stove (as yours) for 27 years and he seems to have a good handle on how to operate it.
Once you replace the door gasket you will have more control over the heat. Unfortunately with these old stoves, they have to be burning pretty hot to burn clean. If you close down the air inlets to approx 1/8th inch after you get the fire rolling, you will get less heat, but the load will smolder and make smoke & creosote. It’s the nature of the beast.
Dry wood is key as well. Notice Dave_1 burns wood that has 6% moisture content. That’s some dry wood! I think that plays into his lack of creosote production with his Fisher.
Thanks guys for more advice and more detail, I’ll re read Daves information.
I do have ANOTHER question though. If there is creosote developing, will frequent cleanings eliminate it. If it is possible for me to do so (have the pipe cleaned more often. The only way to know how much creosote is in there is to visually inspect it?
Well I will keep reading everything, maybe more answers in there and I can stop asking so mnay questions. I did read a lot, but kind of overwhelmed, going to read, and re read.
I am working on getting a load of seasoned firewood, will find out how long it has been seasoned. The stuff I did get had not been seasoned for more than a few months so I guess that isn’t good either. *sighs*
doing best I can, did not expect to have to be doing this.
Burning wood is a big commitment, especially with an older stove.
And yea, you’ll want to have the chimney inspected/swept more often at first until you are able to determine how much creosote your stove is making.
