l
Congratulations you found the sweet spot.. Too many posters post complaining about poor stove preformance. yeah they dampered down and the fire just smoldered or died down.
There is a bit more involved before dampering down, dry wood , establishing a full bed of red hot coals, and being sure your wood is past its inital burning stage. just getting to 500 degrees and dampering down may no be enough. I find 600 to 650 drgrees I get better results after I damper it down. Again dry wood good bed of coals and waiting for the initial burning stages to end. Enother way is loading the fire box Instead of filling it to the brim I add a few splits at a time get them involved add a few more to fill it watch the thermo rise to 600+ then damper it down I have enjoyed 8 plus hours of 500 plus degrees of heat./ this theory seems to explain, it things in motion tend to stay in motion You get a good secvondary burn it tends to continue.
A few weeks back we had the cat VS non cat debate. All the benifits in your Everburn technology came fron VC experiences in Cat stove technology. The combustion chamber design adding thermatically controled secondary air down draft the bi pass damper to port super hot exhaust gasses over the coals all part of the past cat technology
Now supose all the design enhancements to the secondary chamber, the called everburn technology, and augmented by the most effecient cat combustor of its kind.
A cat combustor that extends that secondary burn 40% longer and burns more particulates, than the common OEM ones of today. Right now 380 is the lowest cat combustor light off that I know of. What we are talking about, is light off under 300 degrees
Elk, it is my understanding that only catalytics can achieve combustion of gases below 1100 degrees F. The Everburn allows the 1100 degree temperatures and does not need a catalyst. It is the drawing of the exhaust down through the coal bed that encourages the combustion of the gases at the higher temperature, above 1100. This is different from a Catalytic where the smoke is hitting the catalyst at about 600 degrees F. I can’t tell if you are talking about Catalytic or non-Catalytic burn here. Can non-Cat burn happen below 1100 degrees F? Please explain.
Anyway, just when I thought I had this stove figured out, last night it burned like I’ve never seen it burn before. I jokingly say “it went thermo-nuclear”. I guess what I did differently (accidentally?) was get a really huge brick of red hot coals immediately in front of the throat opening at the back. I loaded it with fresh splits, and closed the bypass – it did its normal “everburn rumble” (sounds like a natural gas furnace firing only quieter). The thing is that the rumble just kept going and going, and the flue temps were around 650. I cut the primary air completely off (secondary combustion air is not user controlled and cannot be shut off), and the flue temps stayed above 600 for over an hour anyway. I went outside with my million candle power light and was pretty amazed that I could see NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING coming out of the chimney (normally there is at least some white vaporous exhaust). You could never have known there was a raging fire (or any fire) going on at the time.
Great post! One question for ya. Are you talking flue temps or stove top temps? Do you have a magnetic thermometer on your stove pipe? If so, and it’s reading 600, that’s alot of heat going up the chimney? When my stove is chuggin along at a 600 stove top temp, my stove pipe reads roughly half that.
Elk, it is my understanding that only catalytics can achieve combustion of gases below 1100 degrees F. The Everburn allows the 1100 degree temperatures and does not need a catalyst. It is the drawing of the exhaust down through the coal bed that encourages the combustion of the gases at the higher temperature, above 1100. This is different from a Catalytic where the smoke is hitting the catalyst at about 600 degrees F. I can’t tell if you are talking about Catalytic or non-Catalytic burn here. Can non-Cat burn happen below 1100 degrees F? Please explain.
The bottom exhausting / down drafting design is great, but that is not what makes it the “everburn” system. The new twist VC has added is this so called “state-of-the-art ceramic fiber material” which lines the secondary combustion chambers. Supposedly this allows for combustion to take place at lower temperatures.
Exactly what temp can combustion occur? How exactly does this space age material work? Is it all just marketng hype? No idea…
Great post! One question for ya. Are you talking flue temps or stove top temps? Do you have a magnetic thermometer on your stove pipe? If so, and it’s reading 600, that’s alot of heat going up the chimney? When my stove is chuggin along at a 600 stove top temp, my stove pipe reads roughly half that.
I’m using a condar probe thermometer in the flue. Are you sure you didn’t reverse stove top and stove pipe in your question (does soapstone even get above 500)? Well its probably totally different with an external pipe temp, but the flue gasses should always be hotter than the stove top temperature except for when the fire is dying down. I capture a lot of the heat of that exhaust via 9 feet of single wall flue pipe inside the room (probe is near the bottom).
Tradergordo, that was one of the best posts on the DW I’ve seen so far, thx! I installed mine (DW 2479 large) at the tail end of last year’s burning season (late Feb), and have only had a 1/2 dozen nites this season that warranted a good fire, as my house is well insulated and gets a lot of passive solar heat which is a rapidly diminishing heat source this far north. I can also heat my entire house w/ ease, including my recently attached two-story garage/woodworking shop which has an interior masonry chimney running up along the common wall through both the garage/shop.
My biggest difficulty has been getting the reburner to work consistently. As you stated, it’s really obvious when it is operating properly as the ‘everburn rumble’ is impossible to mistake, not to mention that there isnt even the smallest trace of particulate or smoke coming out the top of the stack. Many times I reload the box, get everything burning well, temp around 550-600, close the bypass, and hear the rumble. However after about 30 seconds the rumble fades and the temp drops like a stone to about 350. Other times, the rumble continues, and like you said, the stove goes nuclear and there is no way to get it below 500 even w/ the air valve completely closed. But from your post, it looks like the stove still lets in air to the reburn chamber despite the air setting.
Here are the ways I’ve found to get a successful reburn (besides the obvious use of dry, seasoned hardwood):
1) ensure the stack is warm to the touch. Mine is clay liner w/ concrete block exterior. Takes about an hour of a hot fire before it’s above room temp. If its too cold, my draft is decreased noticably. Even when slightly warm, the decreased draft can stall the reburner.
2) when you reload w/ fresh splits, push some of the existing hot coal bed to the back so the air has to flow thru the hot coals
3) After loading fresh splits, wait longer than you’re used to before closing the bypass. If the splits arent going dropping coals around the edges, it’s usually going to stall since the air entering the reburner is cooled by the splits. you can choke down the air while everything catches & is burning to increase burn time. Even then, there will be very little smoke coming out the top of the stack, and it serves to heat the stack even more to increase draft which is essential.
4) Safety purists avert your eyes!!! This technique is probably not the smartest, but done with care & a watchful eye, I dont think its that dangerous. When the splits are burning and the stove is approaching temp (500+), open the ash pan door a crack. This not only lets you make sure all the splits are burning via the extra light, it drastically increases the draft temporarily. When temp is about 600, close the pan door, wait about 3 seconds, then close the bypass. This is usually enuf to jumpstart the reburner if it’s being stubborn. DO NOT leave the stove unattended whatsoever during this time, it only takes a few seconds anyhow.
I also can’t stand the detachable handles. Mine shattered after the very first drop, then twice more since. Terrible design. You are correct that they take a standard thread. You can actually unscrew the blunt insert and screw it directly onto any of the handles. This of course heats up the handles frighteningly fast. Im experimenting w/ buying some coils to wrap around a longer handle. I grew up w/ a Russo stove that had those, and gloves were never needed to operate the handles. Here is a thread that discusses this more: http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/837/
Any other tips on dealing w/ a stubborn everburn DW are much appreciated, this is my first non-cat stove and Im still fumbling w/ that aspect.
Great post! One question for ya. Are you talking flue temps or stove top temps? Do you have a magnetic thermometer on your stove pipe? If so, and it’s reading 600, that’s alot of heat going up the chimney? When my stove is chuggin along at a 600 stove top temp, my stove pipe reads roughly half that.
I’m using a condar probe thermometer in the flue. Are you sure you didn’t reverse stove top and stove pipe in your question (does soapstone even get above 500)? Well its probably totally different with an external pipe temp, but the flue gasses should always be hotter than the stove top temperature except for when the fire is dying down. I capture a lot of the heat of that exhaust via 9 feet of single wall flue pipe inside the room (probe is near the bottom).
Ok, I get it now. A probe thermometer will read higher than magnetic type I have.
And yes my stove top has gotten as high as 725 and normaly run it between 450-600.
Here are the ways I’ve found to get a successful reburn
Burning - thanks - that is the kind of info I was hoping to see. I also read some other user reviews of our stove, one person mentioned cracking the ash door to get up to temp (I think this superheats the secondary burn chamber), another person mentioned starting the fire basically with a pile of wood completely against the back of the firebox to warm the secondary burn chambers which sounds like a good idea. Like you, I push the hot coals towards the back before reloading. I’ll definitely post if and when I find any other tricks that help.
So do you think that the secondary burn is only working when you hear the everburn rumble? I wasn’t really sure - was thinking possibly you only get that sound when there is extra strong draft or very high levels of combustion gas to burn. That doesn’t neccesarily mean it isn’t burning efficiently when its not rumbling away but I don’t really know?
I know what you mean about closing the bypass and seeing the temps drop - this usually happens when I don’t have a big enough coal bed. I assume once it gets seriously cold out its going to be easier to get those big coal beds and high efficiency burns (less of the stop and start stuff).
I have an idea for making handles - create a mold using the existing handle, fill mold with high temp silicone sealant, drop appropriately sized screw into mold, when it dries, flip over and do the other half. I’ve done something similar before. I’ll let you know if I try this, I’ll take pictures of the whole process. Of course it’d be a lot easier to just pay the $20 for 3 new retail handles, but from what I understand they get really hot when screwed in. No idea what a silicone handle would be like…
I usually start out with 2 small splits.(2"x20”). I place them side by side running Parralel to front door. I fill the area between with 3 or 4 sheets of newspaper. I then place a good amout of kindling on top of everthing (usually pine). I light the newspaper and within 5 minutes the fire is going good. I continue adding small splits (finger size) to the fire until I get a really good bed of coals. I am now ready for loading up (45 minuteu to 1 hour). I push the coals towards the back and load up with 4 big splits(3” to 4 “) and whatever else I can fit with little splits. The surface temp, wich is read from the side opposite the loading door, reads around 600. I wait for about 10 to 15 minutes for new load to catch and close the damper. With that size load I am usually good for 6 hrs with cherry and maple.
Gordo….
Yer actually double counting me on that ash-pan method, since Im the same DW owner you just emailed.
I think the reburner is working sometimes when I dont hear the rumble For mine the sure test is the magnetic thermometer on the flu pipe on the back of the stove. If its 450+ and there is no visible smoke coming out the top of the stack, and the heat-distorted exhaust from the stack is exiting quickly, then I presume its working. If the temp drops low, almost inevitably smoke starts coming out the stack and its time to kickstart it again.
In MA we just wrapped up a cold snap where I was burning almost continuously for several days. The interior stack was warm to the touch the whole time, even to the point of almost burning my hand w/ prolonged contact. The draft was substantially better as you might expect, but even then I did have the occassional stalling of the reburner after a reload. I found that keeping a certain depth of hot burning coals was essential, much thicker than I’d like because that means more frequent reloads of fresh splits.
Def let me know how you make out w/ creating your own handles. Definitely dont just remove the blunt insert and screw onto a handle receiver, as the ceramic handle becomes scorching hot in just a few minutes. Im off to Home Despot in a few w/ my broken handle to find some same-sized bolts that I can make handles with. Still debating what to cover the bolts with. If I can find a Russo/Lopi handle which has the coils, Im shooting for that.
The bolt (for the handle) is 3 & 1/4 inch long, and 1/4 inch diameter.
Since these welding hammers: http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=38853
are on sale for just $2 right now (with coupon) I was thinking about some way to take its handle and use it for our stove - it has the nice wire wrap, but this would probably require some welding unless you can thread a bolt right thru it, I’ll have to look into it.
Green - you reminded me that I really should try burning with smaller splits. You would probably laugh if you saw what I’ve been burning (mostly enormous splits, which do burn forever but not as hot). I really need to go out and resplit about half my wood. I’m sure I would get faster coal beds that way.
As for starting - this is what I found works best for me (and does create a decent coal bed). I’ve been using super dry pallet wood (probably pine or poplar). There are free pallets all over the place around me, so I got a couple trailers full and chainsawed them all up. This is way easier and works so much better than collecting, breaking up, and using small branches or splits. I also discovered that those 6 lbs. duraflame logs make awesome dirt cheap firestarters. I took one of them outside and used the circular saw to cut a lot of groves in it, then pulled chunks apart by hand to make 45 firestarters from one log. They are easy to light, burn a long time, and burn hot. The best thing is that they make almost no smoke or fly ash as opposed to using newspaper, bark, leaves, or lots of little twigs. The log was like $2.70 so that comes to about 6 cents per firestarter but I’ve found that I can break them in half again and use it to start in two places for faster starts.
p.s. I had another “thermo-nuclear” fire last night, so I’m definitely learning how to properly operate this stove. When you get a good everburn going, it is really efficient and long burning. It got a little out of hand last night though, my bedroom upstairs at one point hit 77 degrees, I had to close the doors and open a window it was so hot.
Im also a big fan of cheap kindling…..my stove installation was part of a much larger addition which included a 2-car garage & wood shop above the garage. So I have piles upon piles of KD pine scrap that I use to create my initial coal bed. But being softwood, it takes a lot of scrap volume to create any appreciable coals. I love using my splitting maul, my last set of rounds I hauled out of the woods I reduced practically to kindling size, but of course they wont be seasoned until next year. So I’ll probably split up some medium splits as well.
I have the same overheating problem when my stove gets into the zone… I leave the door to the garage (right next to the stove) wide open, as well as opening the big french doors by the stove a few inches, else the living room gets well into the 90s and the upstairs into the low 80’s. I also sometimes flip on the HVAC blower which is super inefficient at distributing heat, but it does bleed off some heat into the basement while keeping the living room tolerable.
I was debating creating wooden handles on my lathe, had seen them on a stove in my local stove shop.
Elkimmeg, since I can create any length/diameter I want making them from scratch, would you recommend the same size as your dowel (5/8”) or a larger diameter? How hot do your handles get after continual operation?
Here is a shot I took of my DW in thermo-nukular mode (OK, in reality I took about 50 pics). I liked this one since it captures a random gas pocket mid-explosion…...it was also one of the few that were reasonably straight and in focus.
Stove was about 550 at the time (my BAC about .15)
At the dealer I purchased mine from, there was a moderate jump in price from the small—>medium size, but almost no difference from the medium—>large size (under $100). I dont think I agree w/ their claim about 14 hour burn times, but if I load it before bed, it still has enuf hot coals in the morning to easily get it going again. I’d say 10 hours w/ the reburner engaged is even a bit optimistic. You can load an impressive amount of splits into it, 3x3 big splits onto a bed of coals, made even easier by the side loading door. I havent tried loading exclusively large, all-nite burner splits to test the max burn time.
As you can see from the pic, the glass front is large and is referred to by my buddies as ‘the best HD channel in the house’. It doesnt have an airwash system like Lopi stoves, but the glass stays very clean on its own if you run a hot fire. A simple wipe down w/ a moist paper towel (when not burning) cleans what little residue builds up over a few days of continual burning.
Im not sure actually where it enters on my particular stove, it could be above the door. Lopi I believe has a patent on something they call AirWash (or something similar) which is advertised as a way to keep the viewing glass from getting any residue. It’s not something I’ve really looked at, aka it aint broken…...
According to the manual, the primary air manifold is inside the piece that the frame of the front door touches, so I guess this could be considered “air washed glass” although for some reason I’ve never seen VC advertise this.
As for the eBay listing, yes, it was for the same model (2479) and was $999 shipped brand new. Although it sold fast and I haven’t seen others listed that low since. But you reminded me of something I need to add to my review - one of the best features of this stove, its price!
p.s. Love the pic Burning. I just got (finally) a new digital camera to replace my old one which died. I’ll take pics of my next fire.
Yeah, it may not be the same system that Woodstock or Lopi uses, but the fact that all primary air enters the firebox via a manifold above the door opening which causes the air to fall across the door gives the stove an airwash.
Not trying to be nit picky, and I’m sorry if I came off that way.
No idea…
