Weight is unimportant to the economic arguement. As you said yourself it is BTUs per dollar. So cordwood is always less expensive in BTUs / dollar even with moderately dense woods.
This is not to say Bios are not good. I have a friend who burned cordwood for 25 years and switched to pellets a few years ago because, at 60+ years old, he could no longer do the physical work it took to do cordwood. Bios would have saved him installing a new expensive stove. Too bad they were not available then.
I think Bios are a great product and have their market as stated above (in the city, people who don’t want to or cannot do the physical work, people who want to be greener possibly and likely other reasons).
Those who are looking at ecomonics as their foremost concern should stick with cordwood.
Sorry, I don’t remember saying that. If I did it would be wrong as I have no idea what one is paying per cord for the wood. That seems to vary a lot. In most cases I would think that you are correct, even locally it is rare to see a true cord of wood costing more than $250. But in urban areas where cordwood can cost > $400/cord delivered, then the economics move towards biobricks. Not to mention, cleanliness, convenience, long burn, clean-burn, etc. which also have value.
If bottom line cost if what is most important, typically, the best value is still cord wood.
If the positive aspects of bio bricks or other compressed wood products are more important, then that becomes higher value.
Comparing the cordwood to bricks using BG’s numbers, you need 1.5 tons of Bios (at about 17MBtus/ton) to equal 1 cord of wood (25MBtus).
They are very convenient but not a cheaper option than wood unless you’re paying $375/cord for wood. (assuming the Bios are $250/ton)
-Colin
Colin, you are missing the weight of a cord of wood. That’s correct as long as you remember a cord of wood is going to be 2 tons or more. So the bios make economic sense in many areas where cord wood is expensive.
BeGreen - 14 December 2007 01:08 AM
A better comparison is the btus per ton. One ton of bio bricks = 17,000,000 btus (50 pkgs x 20 bricks x 17,000 btus). By comparison, a cord of white oak = 4000 - 4500#, 25,700,000 btus or if very dry, 12,850,000 btus / ton. Bio bricks emit 50% less particulates per cord burned which is impressive. Also, in a correctly packed stove, they release meaningful heat over a much longer time. This is one of the best features, especially for overnight burns.
BG - the BTU number I used (25M Btus) was your number by the cord - which is how the wood is sold. You could do the calculation on a unit ton of each as well - but you’d have to divide the price of the cord roughly in half when translating to dollars, since a ton of wood is a lot less than a cord, as you state, and I think it makes the comparison less clear:
Example:
1 ton of BioBricks = 17M BTUs for $250
1 ton of wood = ~1/2 (cordwood price) = $200/cord * 0.5 = $100/ton = 13M BTUs for $100
Either way you’d come out to the same conclusion which you also said in your last post - you have to be paying in the ballpark of $400/cord before the biobricks are cheaper.
If bottom line cost if what is most important, typically, the best value is still cord wood.
If the positive aspects of bio bricks or other compressed wood products are more important, then that becomes higher value.
Colin, I think we are all in agreement. It just depends where you place the value and the local cost of wood. Right now we are seeing cordwood sell in suburban and urban environments for more than $350/cord. At this time of year it’s really hard to get dry wood. So paying $350+ or even $200 a cord for unseasoned wood is a poor value if you need good heat now. For those folks, a compressed wood product is a good value. We just saw someone run into this on Long Island. Also, if you are in an area or microclimate which is subject to temperature inversions, then the cleaner burning of the compressed wood is important. When I note that the local air quality is deteriorating badly due to a stagnant system, I try to burn less and burn compressed.
In the metric system, firewood is normally sold by the stere (1 m³ = ~0.276 cords).
In the United States, firewood is usually sold by the cord, 128 ft³ (3.62 m³), corresponding to a woodpile 8 ft wide × 4 ft high of 4 ft-long logs. The cord is legally defined by statute in most states.
Hows the bio blocks doing ??I have a couple of Question’s. First how many Blocks are in one Package? Second, how many Blocks does it take to keep the stove running for 12 hours? Third,What do the packages weigh—40lb????? are there 50 a pallet??
hi guys,
new to your forum and have a few quetions…
my home is approx.1100 sq ft and wood is my primary heat this year as oil is close to $4 a gallon this year in maine.
i bought 6 cord of hardwood this year at $100 a cord tree length and i had to work it up myself.how many ton of bio bricks would i need to be equivalent to 6 cord of wood? i know that if i go to pellets, i would only need approx. 3 ton.
also, my stove is homemade wit a 2’x2’x2’ fire box…how should i load it to have a safe efficient, and comfortable fire?my math skills suck , so i ask for any advice you may give.
The bricks come 50 bags to a pallet - 20-2lb bricks to a bag. I am not sure what lenght of burn you could get. I can get 8-9 hours during the day and have enough coals left over to get going again but the heat drops more than I like. It takes 12 bricks to do that. I could fit, but have never tried, another 6 in the stove. Once you figure out how to burn them you can’t beat how easy they are store and use. However, for the heat you get they cost a good bit more than cord wood. I only use them during the day when I am not home. I can’t get 7-9 hours with just wood, no matter how big a log I stuff in there. I can’t get the bricks in my area right now. Supply < demand.
The bricks come 50 bags to a pallet - 20-2lb bricks to a bag. I am not sure what lenght of burn you could get. I can get 8-9 hours during the day and have enough coals left over to get going again but the heat drops more than I like. It takes 12 bricks to do that. I could fit, but have never tried, another 6 in the stove. Once you figure out how to burn them you can’t beat how easy they are store and use. However, for the heat you get they cost a good bit more than cord wood. I only use them during the day when I am not home. I can’t get 7-9 hours with just wood, no matter how big a log I stuff in there. I can’t get the bricks in my area right now. Supply < demand.
Thanks Staplebox.
I know the people selling them around here ran out also. I can only imagine how easy they are to store seeing how pellets are to store them wood.I think the early scare tactic got everybody to at least try them,similar to when pellets ran out in 05.
count me in on the frugal, cheap,and tightwad category
I will try them when they get even down to even double the cost cord wood for me thats about $20-25 a cord. Labor not included as I do not bill myself and I can not here the cellphone over the saw so people leave me alone wich is always good.
hi guys, thought i’d stop in and say thanx for the quik response! i posted a question on the 14th of jan. and still waiting for a answer…guess i will go with the pellet stove, at least people will answer questions for a new guy wanting to try something that might be better.
hi guys, thought i’d stop in and say thanx for the quik response! i posted a question on the 14th of jan. and still waiting for a answer...guess i will go with the pellet stove, at least people will answer questions for a new guy wanting to try something that might be better.
mike brown hartland, maine
Don’t know where you posted your earlier question, but if you thought it was here, it wasn’t… You are showing a total of two posts, both in this thread… If you meant to post it here, something burped, don’t know where, and it didn’t make it. Perhaps if you reposted?
hi guys, thought i’d stop in and say thanx for the quik response! i posted a question on the 14th of jan. and still waiting for a answer…guess i will go with the pellet stove, at least people will answer questions for a new guy wanting to try something that might be better.
mike brown hartland, maine
I do belive i’m going to stay using pellets. i was thinking about doing both.
hi guys, thought i’d stop in and say thanx for the quik response! i posted a question on the 14th of jan. and still waiting for a answer...guess i will go with the pellet stove, at least people will answer questions for a new guy wanting to try something that might be better.
mike brown hartland, maine
Don’t know where you posted your earlier question, but if you thought it was here, it wasn’t… You are showing a total of two posts, both in this thread… If you meant to post it here, something burped, don’t know where, and it didn’t make it. Perhaps if you reposted?
Gooserider
Goose,
He posted it in this thread, see post # 96 a little further up.
I think the Noobie question got lost in the activity of this hot topic. Perhaps someone should suggest he post a separate and specific question so it can be properly addressed. It would only get buried in this thread anyway.
ETA - I just took the liberty of PM’ing him with the suggestion that he post his Noobie questions separately.
~Cath
hi guys, thought i’d stop in and say thanx for the quik response! i posted a question on the 14th of jan. and still waiting for a answer...guess i will go with the pellet stove, at least people will answer questions for a new guy wanting to try something that might be better.
mike brown hartland, maine
Don’t know where you posted your earlier question, but if you thought it was here, it wasn’t… You are showing a total of two posts, both in this thread… If you meant to post it here, something burped, don’t know where, and it didn’t make it. Perhaps if you reposted?
Gooserider
Goose,
He posted it in this thread, see post # 96 a little further up.
I think the Noobie question got lost in the activity of this hot topic. Perhaps someone should suggest he post a separate and specific question so it can be properly addressed. It would only get buried in this thread anyway.
ETA - I just took the liberty of PM’ing him with the suggestion that he post his Noobie questions separately.
~Cath
You’re right, my error… I think the conversion factor I’ve heard is roughly 1.5 tons of BB’s to 1 cord of wood, so that would be 3 tons for 2 cords, or 9 tons of BioBricks for 6 cords of wood - seems like an awful lot…
However you are also correct, in that the rest of his question would best be asked in a new thread…
hi guys, thought i’d stop in and say thanx for the quik response! i posted a question on the 14th of jan. and still waiting for a answer...guess i will go with the pellet stove, at least people will answer questions for a new guy wanting to try something that might be better.
mike brown hartland, maine
Don’t know where you posted your earlier question, but if you thought it was here, it wasn’t… You are showing a total of two posts, both in this thread… If you meant to post it here, something burped, don’t know where, and it didn’t make it. Perhaps if you reposted?
Gooserider
Goose,
He posted it in this thread, see post # 96 a little further up.
I think the Noobie question got lost in the activity of this hot topic. Perhaps someone should suggest he post a separate and specific question so it can be properly addressed. It would only get buried in this thread anyway.
ETA - I just took the liberty of PM’ing him with the suggestion that he post his Noobie questions separately.
~Cath
You’re right, my error… I think the conversion factor I’ve heard is roughly 1.5 tons of BB’s to 1 cord of wood, so that would be 3 tons for 2 cords, or 9 tons of BioBricks for 6 cords of wood - seems like an awful lot…
However you are also correct, in that the rest of his question would best be asked in a new thread…
Gooserider
Goose, I think you have it backwords. They advertise 1 ton of Bio’s equal 1.5 cords of wood.
<snip>
I think the conversion factor I’ve heard is roughly 1.5 tons of BB’s to 1 cord of wood, so that would be 3 tons for 2 cords, or 9 tons of BioBricks for 6 cords of wood - seems like an awful lot… However you are also correct, in that the rest of his question would best be asked in a new thread…
Gooserider
Goose, I think you have it backwords. They advertise 1 ton of Bio’s equal 1.5 cords of wood.
1.5 tons of Bios (at about 17MBtus/ton) to equal 1 cord of wood was a direct quote from earlier in this thread, The Biopellet website says one pallet (which IIRC is = 1 ton) is a replacement for one cord of 21% moisture cordwood… I’m not sure just who to believe, though I tend to be doubtful about manufacturer claims - (look at the claims for stoves about areas heated and burn times…) - but 1 - 1 does seem a bit more reasonable…
I purchased 15 packs as a trial from Terleckey brothers in Amsterdam, NY.
The stuff is VERY easy to handle, and priced right to augment my local cordwood supply.
It has, however, given me fits in storage.
I’m down to the last 6 packs, and ALL of them show signs of moisture infiltrating the bricks through the package seams.
Have the larger volume users a suggestion for outdoor storage?
(Mine are stacked next to my cordwood, under a tarp and shed.)
I have stored mine indoors however when they arrived on the skid they were wrapped with a very heavy plastic I would think they could stay outside for a short time. I am not so sure they could stay out long term.
The teepee is just to get 3 of them burning well. Then you need to create a solid stack of bricks surrounding the teepee as shown in the link provided. Try to avoid airspaces in the stack. It’s the tightly stacked bricks that give the slow burn. But don’t overload the stove, that’s a lot of btus.
Comparing the cordwood to bricks using BG’s numbers, you need 1.5 tons of Bios (at about 17MBtus/ton) to equal 1 cord of wood (25MBtus).
They are very convenient but not a cheaper option than wood unless you’re paying $375/cord for wood. (assuming the Bios are $250/ton)
-Colin
Colin, you are missing the weight of a cord of wood. That’s correct as long as you remember a cord of wood is going to be 2 tons or more. So the bios make economic sense in many areas where cord wood is expensive.
BeGreen - 14 December 2007 01:08 AM
A better comparison is the btus per ton. One ton of bio bricks = 17,000,000 btus (50 pkgs x 20 bricks x 17,000 btus). By comparison, a cord of white oak = 4000 - 4500#, 25,700,000 btus or if very dry, 12,850,000 btus / ton. Bio bricks emit 50% less particulates per cord burned which is impressive. Also, in a correctly packed stove, they release meaningful heat over a much longer time. This is one of the best features, especially for overnight burns.
BG - the BTU number I used (25M Btus) was your number by the cord - which is how the wood is sold. You could do the calculation on a unit ton of each as well - but you’d have to divide the price of the cord roughly in half when translating to dollars, since a ton of wood is a lot less than a cord, as you state, and I think it makes the comparison less clear:
Example:
1 ton of BioBricks = 17M BTUs for $250
1 ton of wood = ~1/2 (cordwood price) = $200/cord * 0.5 = $100/ton = 13M BTUs for $100
Either way you’d come out to the same conclusion which you also said in your last post - you have to be paying in the ballpark of $400/cord before the biobricks are cheaper.
Comparing the cordwood to bricks using BG’s numbers, you need 1.5 tons of Bios (at about 17MBtus/ton) to equal 1 cord of wood (25MBtus).
They are very convenient but not a cheaper option than wood unless you’re paying $375/cord for wood. (assuming the Bios are $250/ton)
-Colin
Colin, you are missing the weight of a cord of wood. That’s correct as long as you remember a cord of wood is going to be 2 tons or more. So the bios make economic sense in many areas where cord wood is expensive.
BeGreen - 14 December 2007 01:08 AM
A better comparison is the btus per ton. One ton of bio bricks = 17,000,000 btus (50 pkgs x 20 bricks x 17,000 btus). By comparison, a cord of white oak = 4000 - 4500#, 25,700,000 btus or if very dry, 12,850,000 btus / ton. Bio bricks emit 50% less particulates per cord burned which is impressive. Also, in a correctly packed stove, they release meaningful heat over a much longer time. This is one of the best features, especially for overnight burns.
BG - the BTU number I used (25M Btus) was your number by the cord - which is how the wood is sold. You could do the calculation on a unit ton of each as well - but you’d have to divide the price of the cord roughly in half when translating to dollars, since a ton of wood is a lot less than a cord, as you state, and I think it makes the comparison less clear:
Example:
1 ton of BioBricks = 17M BTUs for $250
1 ton of wood = ~1/2 (cordwood price) = $200/cord * 0.5 = $100/ton = 13M BTUs for $100
Either way you’d come out to the same conclusion which you also said in your last post - you have to be paying in the ballpark of $400/cord before the biobricks are cheaper.
Colin, Have you ever burned BioBricks(tm)? One pound of BioBricks DELIVERS the same heat as 1.7 lb of 21% cordwood. An average NE cord of wood weighs 3400 lb. A pallet of biobricks weighs at least 3250 they are the same.
-Colin
wich is always good.
I think the conversion factor I’ve heard is roughly 1.5 tons of BB’s to 1 cord of wood, so that would be 3 tons for 2 cords, or 9 tons of BioBricks for 6 cords of wood - seems like an awful lot…
