Let me be honest up front....I own a 2006 Harman at home and a 2004 Englander that I rarely use, but have it at a shacky cottage for heat. I bought the Englander at Home Depot on clearance several years back and now plan on "dumping" it at the boyfriends house so he can "get into pellet stoves" as opposed to using propane all the time. I am always amazed at how much finer the design (welds, heat control, having an ash pan) is on the Harman than the Englander, but also shocked because Harmans are triple/ almost quadruple the price of the Englander. The Englander also never seemed to regulate heat well and would flare up on high flame even on low setting and eats through pellets like mad. But still....the Englander puts out the heat for cheap investment. My question is how long do Englanders last in regular use? What goes wrong with them. I always see a bunch of them for sale used after they are about 5 years old. I am not knocking down Englanders product, as I own one (the price for them is awesome) but never used it much. The cottage is very small and the Englander literally cooked me out with the irratic heat output. I know there must be Englander fans out there as well as Englander haters. Please tell me about these stoves.
Tell me about Englander stoves? How good are they?
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kinsmanstoves
Minister of Fire
This is a good topic and I will be in here lurking. I have numerous customers that have gone from Englanders to Harmans but none that I know of did the reverse. Very good post.
Eric
Eric
Some stoves are better than others... Whether its through there heat output or efficiency. Or general fuel consumption
Some stives burn pellets better than others (crappy pellets). Some create gobs of heat through small amounts of fuel.
I own 3 Englanders. A woodstove (30-NC) and 2 pellet stoves (17 yr old PDV and a new 10-CPM). They both work as advertised. And I actually think the old one has a better heat output. It has tube type heat exchangers and a thick firebox like a woodstove. Where the CPM can burn for weeks at a time.
I also own a Quad. Its output is superior to all of them. But it lacks in function. Only on/off operation. But is a Serious heater! !!
If I could meld the burnpot and control board of the CPM, the thick steel firebox of the old PDV, and then looks and output of the Classic Bay! That would be the Ultimate Stove. IMO
They all have there place. . . PM sent.
Some stives burn pellets better than others (crappy pellets). Some create gobs of heat through small amounts of fuel.
I own 3 Englanders. A woodstove (30-NC) and 2 pellet stoves (17 yr old PDV and a new 10-CPM). They both work as advertised. And I actually think the old one has a better heat output. It has tube type heat exchangers and a thick firebox like a woodstove. Where the CPM can burn for weeks at a time.
I also own a Quad. Its output is superior to all of them. But it lacks in function. Only on/off operation. But is a Serious heater! !!
If I could meld the burnpot and control board of the CPM, the thick steel firebox of the old PDV, and then looks and output of the Classic Bay! That would be the Ultimate Stove. IMO
They all have there place. . . PM sent.
smwilliamson
The Stove Guy
I'm a big fan of Englander. Low cost and fairly simple designs. They do not like increased EVL installations, the auger motors (especially the lower one) wear out very prematurely...but there is a fix for that. I usually replace the vac hoses with silicon and keep the pivot bearings well greased...they'll last forever. Swap out the combustion motor for a Jakel (Harman or Enviro) and you have a very reliable and trustly machine that is rather quiet by comparison to say...Lennox, Napoleon or Breckwell.
I traded my Avalon Astoria for an Englander Multi-Fuel unit 3 years ago. Not because there was anything wrong w/ the Astoria....but Englanders customer support is vastly superior to any other out there, plus I wanted multi-fuel capability.
Nothing wrong with a Harman if you can afford it, but for the price, you CANNOT go wrong with the Englander (and there are MANY, MANY posts here from members who have Harman problems).
If you give Englander customer service a call, and explain the model, serial #, stove exhaust set-up, control panel settings, I'm very sure they can solve the high pellet consumption issue.
Nothing wrong with a Harman if you can afford it, but for the price, you CANNOT go wrong with the Englander (and there are MANY, MANY posts here from members who have Harman problems).
If you give Englander customer service a call, and explain the model, serial #, stove exhaust set-up, control panel settings, I'm very sure they can solve the high pellet consumption issue.
Ive got an Englander in the workshop and a Harman in the house.
So far, my 3 yr old Englander has been very reliable and works exactly as advertised.
I had to replace the auger in my Harman this year and I think it`s gonna need a new combustion motor too. That`s after about approx 16 tons of pellets thru it in it`s lifetime.
Harman`s are very good stoves and cost 2-3 times as much as an Englander but they aren`t twice as good . And they don`t talk to customers either , especially after the sale. You`re at the mercy of your local dealer, IF you have one in the area.
The service staff at Englanders will talk to you and help you even if you bought the stove second hand.
I`d have no problem considering another Englander.
So far, my 3 yr old Englander has been very reliable and works exactly as advertised.
I had to replace the auger in my Harman this year and I think it`s gonna need a new combustion motor too. That`s after about approx 16 tons of pellets thru it in it`s lifetime.
Harman`s are very good stoves and cost 2-3 times as much as an Englander but they aren`t twice as good . And they don`t talk to customers either , especially after the sale. You`re at the mercy of your local dealer, IF you have one in the area.
The service staff at Englanders will talk to you and help you even if you bought the stove second hand.
I`d have no problem considering another Englander.
Yeah I am considered an Englander cheerleader but I saw a lot of threads before I bought the 25-PDVC. It is an occasional heater in the basement when I need to be there. And does a great job. I do agree that it eats more pellets in a low burn than it should. Most of my experience though is with their wood stoves.
But as to the remark about welds. Ya gotta show me beads better than that bunch down in Monroe lays down. You can't do it. I have seen a whole lot of Harman stoves, welds and all. Wouldn't own one on a bet (see the above comment about support) but they make a really nice stove. Wood or pellet.
But as to the remark about welds. Ya gotta show me beads better than that bunch down in Monroe lays down. You can't do it. I have seen a whole lot of Harman stoves, welds and all. Wouldn't own one on a bet (see the above comment about support) but they make a really nice stove. Wood or pellet.
Hello Val
Well, I have been rebuilding stoves for a while now and the stove I got before this Enviro Meridan to rebuild was an Englander 25-PDV. It was great getting one with an E-2 error so I could really go thru it and see what all the hoopla was about them and what people complained about. Well, it is a very solid stove and the E2 error was caused because someone disconnected the vacuum switch and when they connected it back they had no idea and just plugged the wires and hose on the wrong ports! ! lol
When I tested it, I found the older non sealed bearing auger motors wore down and needed replacement. New auger motors have sealed bearing now and last longer and work better. However in this case where both augers are made out of cast iron, the top auger never had the knit line polished down and snagged on that one spot when I turned it manually! ! So I just ground it down on my bench grinder and put in 2 brand new auger motors and greased the auger bearing and the stove works better than it ever did before! Also if you do not clean the build up of carbon in the bottom auger chute, that can wear out the auger motor too. Having a dirty bottom auger chute may also cause your uneven up and down heat level! ! ! LOL
Any way they are really rugged and mean heat machines that if cleaned and taken care of properly will last almost forever! The only draw back I see on the 25-PDV and smaller 25-PDVC is that they do not cycle on and off with a T-Stat. The 25-EP and 10-CPM do cycle on and off and do the Hi/Lo so those might be my ideal choices in the Englander line. I just feel having a T-Stat is important to regulate the heat and save on pellets but not everyone uses a T-Stat. It depends on the way you use it. Just my 2 cents.
However if you want a super gorgeous good stove and a real nice price, I do have that Enviro for sale.
See > > https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...00-btu-wood-pellet-stove-1595-salem-nh.86617/
Well, I have been rebuilding stoves for a while now and the stove I got before this Enviro Meridan to rebuild was an Englander 25-PDV. It was great getting one with an E-2 error so I could really go thru it and see what all the hoopla was about them and what people complained about. Well, it is a very solid stove and the E2 error was caused because someone disconnected the vacuum switch and when they connected it back they had no idea and just plugged the wires and hose on the wrong ports! ! lol
When I tested it, I found the older non sealed bearing auger motors wore down and needed replacement. New auger motors have sealed bearing now and last longer and work better. However in this case where both augers are made out of cast iron, the top auger never had the knit line polished down and snagged on that one spot when I turned it manually! ! So I just ground it down on my bench grinder and put in 2 brand new auger motors and greased the auger bearing and the stove works better than it ever did before! Also if you do not clean the build up of carbon in the bottom auger chute, that can wear out the auger motor too. Having a dirty bottom auger chute may also cause your uneven up and down heat level! ! ! LOL
Any way they are really rugged and mean heat machines that if cleaned and taken care of properly will last almost forever! The only draw back I see on the 25-PDV and smaller 25-PDVC is that they do not cycle on and off with a T-Stat. The 25-EP and 10-CPM do cycle on and off and do the Hi/Lo so those might be my ideal choices in the Englander line. I just feel having a T-Stat is important to regulate the heat and save on pellets but not everyone uses a T-Stat. It depends on the way you use it. Just my 2 cents.
However if you want a super gorgeous good stove and a real nice price, I do have that Enviro for sale.
See > > https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...00-btu-wood-pellet-stove-1595-salem-nh.86617/
Crane Stoves
Burning Hunk
Ive found Harman customer service to be horrible (even before a sale to try and have questions answered or simply to locate a dealer), It seems that Harman does NOT want to make it easy for consumers to have easy access to their products because the closest dealer i can find is an hour away from me (Im lucky enough to know people closer who let me come see and test these wonderful stoves). I like Harman stoves but i personally do NOT like the company, they seem to not want anything to do with the consumer and lay everything at the feet of the dealer (who is more then likely a day ride away from you into the bowels of some obscure foreign town to you!)
I have no experience with Englander so i wont say anything about that.
h2ochild
Member
My experience with 25pvdc's
Cons:Hopper doesn't quite hold 40 lbs. Hopper needs foil tape and waxing to facilitate complete pellet feed to upper auger,(Thanks to the good folks here for that tip!). Glass airwash doesn't work well. After donating too much AB negative while chiseling the lower auger tube with a screwdriver to remove carbon build up, I ground the 90 degree(sharp!) edges of the burnpot top, rounder.This model requires maintenance,some daily.They will not operate well without it. I don't mind doing it, it's part of any solid fuel heating.They are very Spartan in appearance (but I like that).
Pros:You can tweak 'em and get better efficiencies. They heat decently.They have excellent customer service. Englander manuals are detailed, and free videos abound on maintenance and repair. Many parts can now be bought at local Home Depots.I've not had a single part fail, with one unit in nearly(shutdown for cleaning only) 'round the clock use for 4 month stretches,having burned nearly 10 tons since purchase.Used models in this area, seem to hold their value.New stoves can be had for far less than other brands.They are a very DIY friendly appliance. I think they are a very good value for the money.If I "trade up" it will be to the 10 CPM, or one of the new models yet to be seen.
Cons:Hopper doesn't quite hold 40 lbs. Hopper needs foil tape and waxing to facilitate complete pellet feed to upper auger,(Thanks to the good folks here for that tip!). Glass airwash doesn't work well. After donating too much AB negative while chiseling the lower auger tube with a screwdriver to remove carbon build up, I ground the 90 degree(sharp!) edges of the burnpot top, rounder.This model requires maintenance,some daily.They will not operate well without it. I don't mind doing it, it's part of any solid fuel heating.They are very Spartan in appearance (but I like that).
Pros:You can tweak 'em and get better efficiencies. They heat decently.They have excellent customer service. Englander manuals are detailed, and free videos abound on maintenance and repair. Many parts can now be bought at local Home Depots.I've not had a single part fail, with one unit in nearly(shutdown for cleaning only) 'round the clock use for 4 month stretches,having burned nearly 10 tons since purchase.Used models in this area, seem to hold their value.New stoves can be had for far less than other brands.They are a very DIY friendly appliance. I think they are a very good value for the money.If I "trade up" it will be to the 10 CPM, or one of the new models yet to be seen.
I have the large 2500 sqft englander and I have now realized why it shuts off, what can cause issues and that it is actually very simple and a great pellet stove. The small metal vacuum tubes in the back have rubber hoses that connect from the exahust to the honeywell heat sensors. They crack and will cause an E code. Replace those and your good. Another strange thing that happened today was I moved the burn pot around and the stove shut down with an E code again. That is due to the spike in a large flame causing high heat. So, as I sat there wondering if this thing is a POS or actually a good stove I realized this is what its supposed to do. If you crank the temp up with the auger speed your fine. But, any spike in temp will shut it down. It does eat pellets but also puts lots of heat out and if I use four tons in one winter its still cheap.
ghandy131
Member
Don't know which Englander you're referring to (they make several models). We installed a 10-CPM 3 years ago to supplement our propane forced air systems (5200 sq ft colonial, built 2004, only heat 4000 now that kids have flown the coup). Love it, love it, love it. Saves about $2500/year. Of course we use the cental heat when needed, but has driven the heat cost from $5200/year to +-$2500, including pellets. The stove is built like a tank. It'll burn anything, minimal cleaning, real good heat. Maybe next year, in my fourth year I'll have a complaint but not yet.
I have the 25 pdv 2500 sqft stove. The one you can buy at homedepot. The rating is 2500,sqft at 50000 BTUs.
ChandlerR
Minister of Fire
I think the reason you see so many Englanders for sale on Craigslist is what I call the Pet Store Syndrome. (Buy something on impulse without knowing what you're buying, then get rid of it when things go bad) See the stove in Home Depot, by stove on impulse because the price is so cheap without and knowledge on how to operate and maintain it...Run it for a few years, getting more frustrated by the year. (Piece of junk...never worked well...always breaks down when you need it) Finally sell it on Craigslist to get some of your money back telling people how good it is and how sad you are to sell it.
Exactly. There simple. Drop pellets, suck air, ignite and exhaust but with that is dry bearings clogged pipes ect... When things go wrong they sell it.
fmsm
Minister of Fire
I had an Englander insert and replaced it after 2 years with a Harman. Englander's customer service is great, the stove did require a daily vac of the burnpot where my Harman can keep (and is currently) run for days without opening the door. In 2 years I also replaced the igniter twice and a blower motor once although in fairness my new Harman P35i that I bought in November came out of the crate with a squeaky combustion blower that was replaced immediately.
I switched because I wanted a little less hands on maintenance, once a week as opposed to once a day. I also wanted a rail system.
They are both good products but I agree with others, you do get what you pay for, the only question is are you like me and are willing to pay substantially more for a product that may or may not be worth the entire difference in price? The lower maintenance is worth it for me.
I would like to add that I was able to speak with a Harman engineer when I had a question on set back thermostats a few years back. You just need to dig up the right number.
I switched because I wanted a little less hands on maintenance, once a week as opposed to once a day. I also wanted a rail system.
They are both good products but I agree with others, you do get what you pay for, the only question is are you like me and are willing to pay substantially more for a product that may or may not be worth the entire difference in price? The lower maintenance is worth it for me.
I would like to add that I was able to speak with a Harman engineer when I had a question on set back thermostats a few years back. You just need to dig up the right number.
iceguy4
Minister of Fire
Jason Knapp
Burning Hunk
I love my 25 EP. With the help of Englander excellent customer service, the members of this forum and my own inability to leave things alone, this stove runs like a champ.
I bought it used from a guy who was "sorry to see it go"
Yeah right. It wasn't vented properly at his house and was filthy! His loss, my gain!
I bought it used from a guy who was "sorry to see it go"
Yeah right. It wasn't vented properly at his house and was filthy! His loss, my gain!
Pete Zahria
Minister of Fire
Currently on our local CL, there are 15 Harmans for sale, and 4 Englanders.
Not that it means anything. Just sayin.
I have a Harman coal stove, which heats the house, and an Englander pellet
that I just bought for my garage/shop.
Harman makes a pretty nice product. But a lot of money.
Hand fed coal stoves are Superman..
but good luck with trying to get answers.
I recently helped install a stoker for someone, (over 3 grand stove)
and it would not run properly, making the stove useless. Right before a cold snap.
The dealer said he could get someone out to look at it in 3 or 4 weeks.
Really? Customer service... brand spanking new high dollar Cadillac stove,
that doesn't work... and you can't get a guy out there for 4 weeks, possibly?
Good night Irene...
We ended up finding the problem ourselves.
From the factory, they had installed the combustion and room blowers
backwards. 10 second fix AFTER spending time diagnosing..
The first day with the pellet stove, I did not have a problem,
but had a question. It took a while to get through, but my question
was answered, and the man was more than happy to answer any more questions
while I was on the line...
I understand that it is possible I will have an issue with my little stove.
But I am trying to not do, what people who have had problems here,
and hoping these issues will be minimal..
Dan
xavblk
Member
I have a 10-CPM for 3 years now and love it, installed it on the top floor of my 2 story home. It keeps the entire floor at an average of 70 degrees during 0 degree type weather. An owner of a pellet stove has to be prepared to do either one of 2 things - either be prepared to call a technician and spend serious money to fix a mechanical breakdown every time that occurs OR be prepared to be hands on and learn/fix the issues. I chose the latter and it is not only personally gratifying but financially easy on the pockets. Englander also includes a maintenance DVD with the purchase of a 10-CPM Multi-fuel, not sure if they do that for the other models. Love the stove and will never be without one.
pelletizer
Minister of Fire
I like my 25 pdvc but the only issue I have is the cheap Fasco motors used with sealed bearings that cannot be oiled.
Sorry everyone you can bash me all you want but tough if you don't like what I say.
Having my stove now for 5 burning seasons and knowing it well and only at 2 to 3 tons burned per year and having gone though 4 Convection motors and now the 3rd Exhaust motor is on its way out due to the crappy sealed bearings (its obvious when you start the stove and your kids asks "what is that grinding sound")
I have had 3 of motors replaced by Englander for free 2 under warranty and one due to me pushing, but the bottom line is if one has to replace 7 motors @ about $160.00 each over the next 5 seasons its $800.00 and I don't think that is right and with the Fasco sealed bearing motors track record its a sure bet they will fail.
Motors are junk and a sealed bearing alternative should be offered.
Sorry everyone you can bash me all you want but tough if you don't like what I say.
Having my stove now for 5 burning seasons and knowing it well and only at 2 to 3 tons burned per year and having gone though 4 Convection motors and now the 3rd Exhaust motor is on its way out due to the crappy sealed bearings (its obvious when you start the stove and your kids asks "what is that grinding sound")
I have had 3 of motors replaced by Englander for free 2 under warranty and one due to me pushing, but the bottom line is if one has to replace 7 motors @ about $160.00 each over the next 5 seasons its $800.00 and I don't think that is right and with the Fasco sealed bearing motors track record its a sure bet they will fail.
Motors are junk and a sealed bearing alternative should be offered.
slvrblkk
Minister of Fire
This works great on the combustion side (you just use the motor itself), it bolts right up but it is a sleeve bearing so longevity might be an issue but it's been working great all season in my stove. It also bolts right up on the convection side but haven't tried it yet. At that price, how can you complain!
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electr...M-115-VAC-McMILLAN-BLOWER-2051762-16-1436.axd
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electr...M-115-VAC-McMILLAN-BLOWER-2051762-16-1436.axd
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tjnamtiw
Minister of Fire
I guess if customers have been willing and ABLE to spend the money for a Harman, they would feel that they were lowering their ''standards" by then buying a cheaper stove. Not saying Harman isn't a good stove because it probably is but there are a lot of happy Englander brand stove owners. Perhaps it takes a learning curve to run them properly but heaven knows that there is plenty of support if they just ask AND have some mechanical aptitude. Without the latter, they have no business buying ANY pellet stove, as we have discussed ad nauseum.
tjnamtiw
Minister of Fire
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