Progress Hybrid - Shielded Cooktop and screen - diff stove

[fire_man]

I think the adhesive comes in a small plastic bottle and says "heat safe gasket glue" - that's what I got with my cooktop.

The big calk tube with gray gritty stuff is furnace cement. That stuff is neat, it's soapstone dust mixed with furnace cement and is really sticky.

 

[3fordasho]

I think the adhesive comes in a small plastic bottle and says "heat safe gasket glue" - that's what I got with my cooktop.

The big calk tube with gray gritty stuff is furnace cement. That stuff is neat, it's soapstone dust mixed with furnace cement and is really sticky.

Hmm, I received 3 tubes of what you are calling furnace cement, one with the new door gasket, one with the first cooktop kit that had shipping damage, and another with the replacement cooktop kit. Am I using the wrong thing for adhering the gaskets?

 

[fire_man]

I think a call to WS is in order. The only thing I ever got from WS in a Tube that was white/grey and gritty was furnace cement which might be ok to use with the gaskets, but it's worth a phone call.

It's odd they shipped me a squeeze bottle of gasket glue with my cooktop, but what sounds like furnace cement with yours.

 

[binko]

I used gasketing material that I bought at a local stove shop. It is sold by the foot-not expensive. I did use glue that Woodstock provided some time ago.
1 small tube is more than enough to do the job. I have attached a photo of the 2 different size gasket material that I used as well as a penny for size reference.
Simple- just glue the smaller one in first then the larger one on top of it. No need to use much glue. You don't want the glue to saturate the gasket and stiffen it up.

 

[fire_man]

Yup Binko's glue is exactly what I was talking about. The furnace cement is in a long white calking tube with a threaded nozzle fitting on one end.

 

[3fordasho]

Well the large tubes of furnace/stove cement are what woodstock sent to me three different times for installing gaskets... I suppose it works for that function but I'd rather use the thin black cement (I have a tube from menards- a rutland product). The stove cement is hard to spread thin as it has a lot of thickness/body. I think I'll source my own grey gasket material and gasket cement and have a go at resealing both the cooktop and the door.

Yup Binko's glue is exactly what I was talking about. The furnace cement is in a long white calking tube with a threaded nozzle fitting on one end.

 

[fire_man]

I would tend to agree, furnace cement seems too thick for gaskets. I used it on my old VC Resolute, but I had to be careful to apply it very sparingly.

 

[3fordasho]

Yesterday's and last nights burns were pretty much smoke smell free... too soon to claim any kind of sucess yet but obviously maintenance of the cat screen and cat itself is much more critical with this stove than with a Fireview. I think I'll be checking out those items everytime I clean out the ash. Last night I was able to close the draft fully which I think is necessary with this stove to get a decent burn time and control the heat output.. with the draft open any amount I would see a very warm house overnight but after 7-8hrs the stove top would only be ~200f or so and enough coals for a slower restart- to be honest my fireview was maintaining better stove top temps after 8hrs and easier to restart... the PH is heating the house to higher temps than the fireview, but controlling that output and extending the burn was one of my goals with the PH.

 

[Waulie]

I also received the furnace cement with the cooktop, which I used to replace the top gasket even though I don't think I needed to. I also used furnace cement to fix the top of the cat gasket which fell down. I think WS used to use and provide the furnace cement for the gaskets, but has recently switched to the gasket glue. I think either can work, but that furnace cement is tricky to work with.

 

[Slow1]

with the draft open any amount I would see a very warm house overnight but after 7-8hrs the stove top would only be ~200f or so and enough coals for a slower restart- to be honest my fireview was maintaining better stove top temps after 8hrs and easier to restart... the PH is heating the house to higher temps than the fireview, but controlling that output and extending the burn was one of my goals with the PH.

+1 - very close to my experiences at this point as well. I do think that overall I am getting more heat for the same wood though so I'm eager to see how it does when it gets really cold in January. For the time being I'm doing more cold starts than I'd like. IF I were to load the stove more fully I could go 24/7 on two loads a day but I'd be overheating the house and going through more wood than I'd like to (overbudget so to speak). So I am stuck with doing a cold start still even though I am burning day and night. However, the objective being to heat the house - that is going very well as we are warmer than before. I am also convinced that the PH burns cleaner even with the cat disengaged during warm-up from those cold starts as I don't see much smoke when I check which basically helps me feel much better about the whole having to re-start more often.

 

[Waulie]

Yesterday's and last nights burns were pretty much smoke smell free... too soon to claim any kind of sucess yet but obviously maintenance of the cat screen and cat itself is much more critical with this stove than with a Fireview. I think I'll be checking out those items everytime I clean out the ash. Last night I was able to close the draft fully which I think is necessary with this stove to get a decent burn time and control the heat output.. with the draft open any amount I would see a very warm house overnight but after 7-8hrs the stove top would only be ~200f or so and enough coals for a slower restart- to be honest my fireview was maintaining better stove top temps after 8hrs and easier to restart... the PH is heating the house to higher temps than the fireview, but controlling that output and extending the burn was one of my goals with the PH.​

I think you'll get the hang of it. I almost never run completely closed, but that is a function of your setup. I can load 60% full and still relight easily from coals after 12 hours. If I load full (and really that's not full because I have 16" splits), there really are too many coals and the stove is still too hot to reload after 12 hours unless it is really cold out and I leave the draft open more than usual. I know Slow1 was having issues with burn times at first too. Keep experimenting with both load size and draft settings and I think you'll end up very happy with burn times and heat output. Once you get it dialed in, you should be able to load the perfect amount to get the heat you need for the burn time you want.​

 

[fire_man]

Waulie: How do you use the gasket glue, do you apply it and let it air dry for a day, and then cure it with small fires - similar to furnace cement?? How thick do you apply it? there are no instructions on my bottle....

 

[Waulie]

Not sure if I mis-wrote above, but I haven't used the gasket glue just the furnace cement. As for curing the furnace cement, I never did on the cat gasket. I needed a fire! I just applied it, stuck the gasket down, plunked the cat in and fired up. It has held just fine. I think I did let the furnace cement cure for quite awhile on the top gasket since I switched it out before burning season. No problems with that one either.

 

[binko]

I have to agree with Waulie. I have not found a difference in glue or cement performance whether I let it cure or expose it to heat immediately.

 

[fire_man]

Yesterday's and last nights burns were pretty much smoke smell free... too soon to claim any kind of sucess yet but obviously maintenance of the cat screen and cat itself is much more critical with this stove than with a Fireview. I think I'll be checking out those items everytime I clean out the ash. Last night I was able to close the draft fully which I think is necessary with this stove to get a decent burn time and control the heat output.. with the draft open any amount I would see a very warm house overnight but after 7-8hrs the stove top would only be ~200f or so and enough coals for a slower restart- to be honest my fireview was maintaining better stove top temps after 8hrs and easier to restart... the PH is heating the house to higher temps than the fireview, but controlling that output and extending the burn was one of my goals with the PH.

I have not run too often with the draft partially open, it's been so warm all of last year and so far this year. You may have to fully load the stove and use up the entire firebox to be able to get 9+ hr burns with the draft opened up.

Wood type makes a big difference, Oak gives me an easy 250F stovetop after 9+ hrs. I load 16" splits at 7pm and by 4am have tons of hot coals for a reload. With the Fireview I was loading closer to 8:30 pm for a 4 am reload.

I'm still waiting for the real cold to fully load 22" seasoned beech. The way winters have been lately I could have kept the Fireview, but I swear the Progress throws more heat with the same amount of wood.

 

[Waulie]

It's strange there seems to be so many different experiences with the stove. I haven't reloaded in anything less than 11 hours all winter except once after being gone for a long weekend and trying to heat the house up fast. I always have hot coals. I reloaded with coals after about 20 hours the other day, but it did require some kindling. I usually just throw splits in. Most of the time, I only load 60 to 80 percent full with 16" splits. IDK, I'm really stumped at this point.

I'm sure it will get cold again at some point, right?

 

[fire_man]

Waulie: How big an an area are you heating?? I'm sure square footage and insulation makes a big difference in a stove's performance. I know Dennis heats a better insulated and smaller area than me, and even though he lives in a colder climate, he reports longer burn times than I ever got with my Fireview - and I'm amazed how little wood he puts in to stay warm. My wood is now seasoned 3+ years so that's not a factor.

I'm heating 2300 sq ft with average to below average insulation.

 

[Slow1]

I wonder about the burn time vs area being heated although I'm at a loss to really understand how exactly it would work that way... I'm heating something on the order of 2500+sqft and it does a fine job, I just don't get anything much in terms of coals at the 12hr mark unless I stuff the stove and I can't imagine a relight after 20hrs from coals.

 

[Waulie]

I'm heating about 1,700 square feet of finished floor space. My footprint is about 1,300 or so and the rest is second story. The part that isn't second story has cathedral ceilings, and the addition part that doesn't have a second story also has cathedral ceilings. Best I can figure, I'm heating the equivalent of about 2,200 square-feet of 8' ceilings. My stove is nearly centered in the house and so I have little issue with heat distribution. House was built in the early 80's with average insulation for the day. The cathedral ceilings are certainly under-insulated by today's standards as I tend to grow glaciers on the eaves. I also have a few drafts that I've been slowly addressing since this house has seen little maintenance before we bought it.

I can easily overheat the house in anything over 15 degrees or so if I put too much wood in. We had a few days last winter that got down around zero and were fine with full loads (of 16" splits), but I think we did reload after 8 hours or so (3 loads a day) during that time.

I really find that I burn on low mode the vast majority of the time. I just adjust my load size based on temp. Tonight, with a low around 30 I loaded about 60% full at 7:30. I will reload with splits on hot coals at about 7:00 am and so on. A little colder, a little more wood but the same burn time. I have a thermo in the kitchen that displays the high and low over the previous 24 hours and those numbers basically always stay between 67 and 73.


Edit: I should add that I'm burning all hard wood. So far this year, probably 70% ash, and the rest a mix of some of the best including hard maple, beech, and ironwood. It has been split and stacked about 1.5 years.

 

[HollowHill]

I also think size of splits matters. I never have a problem having coals, even after 20 hours, it's amazing. I do have some big splits that I use in the back bottom of my load and the rest of my splits are on the large side. I find that I don't need the smaller splits for the most part when I'm burning 24/7, the large stuff lights off just fine. However, even tho I have coals after 12 hours or more, due to size of house and draftiness level, I can't keep the house heated at 300 stove top temps or less. And, I suspect that Waulie and others who get the long burn times, can. The stove will stay at those temps a long time, it's just not enough to heat my house. So, once it hits 325 or so, I open up the air and burn down the coals for an hour or so, so that I can reload and get the house temps back up. I suspect if my house had even average insulation, I'd have no problem doing 12 hour reloads. As is, I'm doing a partial reload midday and 2 full loads morning and night. Looks like we have colder weather coming in a day or so, we'll see how things go with the colder temps. Off to fill the woodshed...

 

[Waulie]

You're definitely right, HH. You, Tony, and others aren't going to be able to goes as long between reloads because you need more heat. What's puzzling to me in when folks say they have no coals after 12 hours or being down to 250 after 9 hours, or 200 after 7 hours, etc. That part just seems strange.

 

[Waulie]

Oh yeah, you're also right on with the bigger splits. It is a huge help in controlling the burn rate.

 

[fire_man]

Wow I wish I had the same experience as Waulie. My footprint is also 1326 sq ft but I am heating 2200 sq ft of finished floor space. 462 sq ft of the floor space has a cathedral ceiling, the rest is two stories. There is no way I can overheat this house in 15 degree temps. It has to be 35 F or so for me to start getting any overheat complaints.

So I guess that explains Waulie's outstanding ability to heat his house with the same stove so well compared with me, there is a 500 sq ft difference. I also have tons of windows.

I have good coals after 12 hours but am definitely down to 250 after 9 hours unless I load 100%.

I think a smaller and better insulated house acts like less of a heat sink to the stove, sucking less heat from it and therefore extending burn times. Comparing Waulie, Slow1,HH and me seems to confirm this when you compare house size and insulation vs burn times. I should collect all the stats from previous posts and stick it all in one post.

 

[Slow1]

Wow I wish I had the same experience as Waulie. My footprint is also 1326 sq ft but I am heating 2200 sq ft of finished floor space. 462 sq ft of the floor space has a cathedral ceiling, the rest is two stories. There is no way I can overheat this house in 15 degree temps. It has to be 35 F or so for me to start getting any overheat complaints.

So I guess that explains Waulie's outstanding ability to heat his house with the same stove so well compared with me, there is a 500 sq ft difference. I also have tons of windows.

I'm having to trouble heating my 2500+ sqft with the PH. I have yet to need to load more than 2x in a day, I have chosen to a couple times just well... because it is fun to feed the fire and see it burn etc, but each time I did that it got hotter in the house than I would have preferred. I've only kept it running 24/7 for one week around Thanksgiving and that was about 12hr cycling by stuffing the box essentially. During that time the house stayed about 3-5* warmer than we generally prefer but I wanted to know I could keep it going w/o relighting so proof of concept was done.

What I don't have is any sort of coal buildup or large piles of coals left over - unless I fill the box I don't expect to find coals after 12 hours. However, the 24/7 POC did demonstrate to me that having coals to load on in a hot stove will indeed extend the effective burn time considerably - so perhaps my issue currently is that I just don't need the heat and thus I just can't turn it down low enough and my effective shoulder season has been extended. I could turn the FV down lower it seems - comparing the FV to the PH low end EPA ratings the FV is rated for 10.8Kbtu vs the PH's 12.5K so clearly I should not expect the PH to be able to burn as low and slow, even in full cat mode.

 

[Waulie]

That makes sense, Tony. I guess in a way it doesn't really matter. Meaning, you may not be able to get as long of burn times but even if you could you wouldn't be using the longer burn times because you would need more heat. I guess it's kind of self-regulting in a way. The BK folks were talking about this in one of those threads. Their burn time plummets as it gets colder out even using the same draft setting which works great because you need more heat then anyway. Certainly part of that is the increased draft from the colder temps, but I think your heat sink idea has merit. It's been a long time since I took thermodynamics, but it does seem to make sense.