Enviro pellet stove 2455RM Honeywell L200 High Limit Switch pops cranking up stove?

[jtakeman]

Smoke- Don't really get what you are talking about above- I'm just saying, it is NOT a good idea to modify or advise someone to modify a stove (or any appliance) without the MFR's concurrence. If saying that is a bad thing, I'll be bad, and safe. If the MFR takes a serviceguy's/dealer's input in and makes a change ala the M55, thats them doing it, not us..

Stovelark

I agree to a point. Ultimate fix here would be to replace the unit with one that is properly sized. But if they are struggling with it and can't afford to replace? Then increasing the blower CFM is as far as I would go to help cool the unit. Swapping out the high limit is too risky for me.

Its no different than what Enviro did to the M55. To me its the least risky and should get them to run it higher until they can afford to swap teh unit for a properly sized unit.

 

[Delta-T]

I'd try reducing the auger trim setting. if the pellets are smallish then the total mass of the pellets entering the burnpot may drive up the total energy enough to trip out the system. I do not see a lot of high limits trips on that unit, at least no greater than any other units.

 

[Delta-T]

the first "upgrade" to the M55 was a feed restricter plate, very few units failed with that installed. the blower was set to be upgraded anyways, and so once the units without the restricter burned the fans out, it was a default to the newer blower (not sure if this was a mechanical, or contract, factory, or other motivation...you'd think any real flaws would have shown up in the testing, but who really knows).

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Don't get us going T.

Lots of things that should have been caught aren't always. Why? Well, I don't want to even begin to make that list.

 

[Delta-T]

Don't get us going T.

Lots of things that should have been caught aren't always. Why? Well, I don't want to even begin to make that list.

you make me chuckle

 

[steamguy]

I continued to be impressed by all the great advice here.

My Enviro dealer was bright-green-new at pellet stoves at the time, this was the first pellet stove he'd installed, although for years he'd installed LOTS of stick and gas burners, and thought it might be a good thing to get in on "this pellet fad". The guy really is a pro at installs and sweeping chimneys, I can't fault him. He was extremely conscientious about my install, even though I was well within clearances, he still checked everything thoroughly.

Our original installation for the old Austroflamm was primo: big wide pipe (it's 4" or bigger but I don't recall the exact size) all the way up to the windproof cap, 30' up. Big cleanout tee at the bottom with an adapter for the stove coming off that. We have a good standing draft: if you have the stove disconnected, you can fell the air moving up the chimney. The original fireplace had an OAK so we were just fine there.

Just to throw gas on this fire... With the expertise in creating and programming control panels we have nowadays, you'd have thought that somebody should have figured out that if you push for 5, it ought to run at 5 for about ten minutes and then drop down to 3 and lock out any change to a higher level for a few minutes until the box cools off. Compare that with 20 years ago, the Integra would hold a high fan speed for a good long while after you had it set to FULL HIGH and turned it down.

I'm going to wait a couple more years (and put in probably a couple more motors in the meantime) and see if Rika gets us a local dealer. If this Empress fails altogether (which I don't put out of the picture) then according to you guys, the Harman is a nice quiet stove? Good quality? I looked at a Breckwell during my research and was very much not impressed with build quality. Saw a Quadrafire, asked to see it start, and saw smoke coming from it into the room. Hmmm. Visible Smoke = Potential Carbon Monoxide leaks...

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I continued to be impressed by all the great advice here.

My Enviro dealer was bright-green-new at pellet stoves at the time, this was the first pellet stove he'd installed, although for years he'd installed LOTS of stick and gas burners, and thought it might be a good thing to get in on "this pellet fad". The guy really is a pro at installs and sweeping chimneys, I can't fault him. He was extremely conscientious about my install, even though I was well within clearances, he still checked everything thoroughly.

Our original installation for the old Austroflamm was primo: big wide pipe (it's 4" or bigger but I don't recall the exact size) all the way up to the windproof cap, 30' up. Big cleanout tee at the bottom with an adapter for the stove coming off that. We have a good standing draft: if you have the stove disconnected, you can fell the air moving up the chimney. The original fireplace had an OAK so we were just fine there.

Just to throw gas on this fire... With the expertise in creating and programming control panels we have nowadays, you'd have thought that somebody should have figured out that if you push for 5, it ought to run at 5 for about ten minutes and then drop down to 3 and lock out any change to a higher level for a few minutes until the box cools off. Compare that with 20 years ago, the Integra would hold a high fan speed for a good long while after you had it set to FULL HIGH and turned it down.

I'm going to wait a couple more years (and put in probably a couple more motors in the meantime) and see if Rika gets us a local dealer. If this Empress fails altogether (which I don't put out of the picture) then according to you guys, the Harman is a nice quiet stove? Good quality? I looked at a Breckwell during my research and was very much not impressed with build quality. Saw a Quadrafire, asked to see it start, and saw smoke coming from it into the room. Hmmm. Visible Smoke = Potential Carbon Monoxide leaks...

If your vent system cross sectional area is more than 36 square inches the weight of the air in the vent causes the hot exhaust gases to be retarded in their exit of the stove this leads to heat build up in the heat exchanger and eventually a high limit issue of one kind or another. Either the actually high limit trips leading to a shutdown or the thermal on the combustion blower trips which leads to a vacuum error followed by a shutdown (this second path can also lead to a high limit trip that won't be discovered until you try to restart the stove.

You also can not have any dip in the venting, it acts just like a large vent cross section does.

Inside that fireplace you also need to be certain that there is plenty of air flow to the convection blower, this is the what I was mentioning by way of a stove's shell, if this air flow is blocked the amount of time to high limit shutdown (in some cases if any high limit shutdown at all will take place) can be impacted.

The only air flow you don't want in the fireplace is that which goes up the chimney and around flue, this is heated air leaving the building as in, Elvis has left the building.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

you make me chuckle

1. We didn't think that wood pellets varied by that much.

2. We didn't realize that auger motors had that much variation in speed for the same nominal RPM.

3. Well we lit a fire in our test unit and point x on the the exchanger never got past 193so we figured a 200 high limit was fine (6 weeks after all tests had been done using the mythical test pellets it was discovered that the laser temperature meter was actually reading 10 too low and the high limit switches were rated 10 above their action points).

4. your turn, ha ha.

 

[Delta-T]

1. it worked fine in our computer models
2. what do you mean 120V isn't always 120v?
3. we tested it as sea level

 

[steamguy]

If your vent system cross sectional area is more than 36 square inches the weight of the air in the vent causes the hot exhaust gases to be retarded in their exit of the stove ...

The only air flow you don't want in the fireplace is that which goes up the chimney and around flue, this is heated air leaving the building as in, Elvis has left the building.

Whoops, I should have said 'good standing draft up the pellet liner inside the chimney'. The original installers built a block inside the original steel chimney to keep air from being drawn up it, to keep the pellet liner centered and to do exactly what you're saying. As for clearance around the stove, inside the original zero clearance firebox, there is a foot or more all around; the avatar kind of shows it, you can see that the inside corners of the cast iron back trim are the left and right edges of the old firebox. The stove is shaped roughly like a T when viewed from above with the fat part sticking out into the room.

 

[steamguy]

1. it worked fine in our computer models
2. what do you mean 120V isn't always 120v?
3. we tested it as sea level

4. We tested it in the warehouse where the ambient temperature was 25°


Your #2 there reminds me of when I worked as an Engineering Tech in a corporate television studio; all the guys before me had been constantly frustrated by our TV gear not holding calibration. I shared it only for a while then I got busy... the only way that the cal could drift was if the line voltage varied. This "two" was added to the "two" of the crews always complaining about the short life of their light bulbs. Our television light bulbs ran from a cheap $10 to over $175. Each. I thought to check the line voltage at my workbench, and it was 145V...! Holey cow. That afternoon I went around the studio and production areas and checked the line voltage everywhere, it was always 145V. No wonder nothing would hold calibration. The power supplies were operating out of regulation. Got the facilities guys to change the tap on the transformer outside (no small feat) and get us to 115 V. Life was a lot better, thereafter...

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

See T I told you that you didn't want to get us started there are two engineers, a software crazy, and a mill wright that may look like a pig and be a bit strange in his spelling but knows how to get things to work even when they don't want to.

 

[Delta-T]

I think we are well on our way to establishing a new (and more interesting) stove engineering squad! I'll get to work on the matching tank-tops.

 

[jtakeman]

a mill wright that may look like a pig and be a bit strange in his spelling but knows how to get things to work even when they don't want to.

Hey, I'm on a diet and have been usin smell check even!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Well like an blooming idiot I read through two sets of installation and user manuals for the Empress and did not find any mention of not running it on high.

In fact the setup must be done on high.

Can any of you fine folks find what my poor old eyes must certainly have missed.

 

[steamguy]

If you see any material on how to set the trim(s) using the buttons on the circuit board I'd sure appreciate it. I would think there's a HIGH trim in the firmware somewhere.

...Oh wait That's assuming some real depth of thought was put into the design. The longer I own this stove, the more disappointed I become. I'm going to keep replacing these cheap Chinese blower motors in it every 18 to 24 months until the unit gets to a point where it cannot be repaired any more. (Yes, I'm part Scot)

When oh when will there be a Rika dealer in the Pacific Northwest...

 

[Don2222]

Hello


The speedometer in my car goes up to 120. If I drove 120 and the car shutdown, I would be very upset and get another car or get it fixed because it is not working like it should! This is my opinion, but some pellet stoves I have seen have different trip points for their high limit switches. I have seen L200, L225 and L250. Now if the L250 was totally unsafe then no stove would have them. I am not recommending that you use one different than the stove comes with, however design mistakes have been made on stoves and customers have been stuck with no support from the manufacturer! This is a real problem.

When I was doing competitive drag racing, I found that some innovative speed or quality designs proven to work well, were adopted by the car manufacturers! I really liked the ad SUNDAY... drum roll. NE Speedway! LOL

As a comparison, I have seen people buy much better aftermarket parts for cars and be very happy with the results. Does that void the warranty? Sometimes it does but if the car is not in warranty them it may be the best fix. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Delta-T]

If you see any material on how to set the trim(s) using the buttons on the circuit board I'd sure appreciate it.

if you have the common control board, press and hold the "auger trim" button...you should see the lights on the control board to indicate the current setting..press the "heat output" button while holding the "auger trim" and watch as the lights cycle through...when the lowest light is lit (or if its the one that is not lit) you have set it to the lowest default..I'd start there.

 

[steamguy]

if you have the common control board, press and hold the "auger trim" button...you should see the lights on the control board to indicate the current setting..press the "heat output" button while holding the "auger trim" and watch as the lights cycle through...when the lowest light is lit (or if its the one that is not lit) you have set it to the lowest default..I'd start there.

Terrific. When I have the stove out the next time I'll give this a try. Mine is the earliest version...

 

[seige101]

The auger trim setting only applies to the low heat setting. It is designed to feed slightly more or less often due to poor quality pellets that burn away to fast before the next batch drops causing the fire to go out.

I have an Empress FS, no issues with running on 5 for multiple hours. I even have a 1.2 RPM auger motor in it, so technically i am feeding in 20% more pellets than it was designed for.