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Lake Girl

Lake Girl

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Nov 12, 2011
6,939
NW Ontario
Heatilator is yet another company under the HnH umbrella, which is also another company under the HUGE HNI umbrella......the ECO's have only been produced under HnH, so, the quality wont be any different than it ever had been......
 
all are also wholly own subsidiaries of Haddden Industries as well...why build 1 when you can build 2 at twice the cost.
 
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I was referring to Harman and Quadrafire quality more ... when you become beholden to large groups of stockholders all sorts of interesting things happen. Any idea when these two joined the group? Their websites make no mention of being owned by HnH or HNI - doubt they still have the autonomy they had as smaller companies - good and bad points.
 
Harman....around 2008 or so, I believe......as for quality.....4-5 years behind us, cant really say the quality has gone downhill, personal preferences aside. Dane is still in R&D. I can say the company is more beancounter-ish much more than ever before...you know, folks with ZERO experience in the field running the show (in SOME cases)....but hey, everyone has to start somewhere
 
H & H was "Quadrafire". They acquired Harman. Then "made" the Heatilator brand.

The way you present it, Heatilator acquired Quad and Harman. That is not the case at all. Quad was always H & H and has expanded.
 
Wait a minute...here's the run down

Heatilator was started in 1927 and bought by HON in 1981, the parent company of HNI what would later become Home and Hearth Technology

Heat and Glo was started in 1987 and was acquired by HHT somehwere along the line

Quadrafire was started in 1986 (Aladdin Industries) and was acquired by Home and Hearth Technology in 2003 ish...unless Aladdin became HHT...this I am not sure

Harman was started in 1979 by Dane Harman, Harman Home Heating and was acquired by HHT in 2008

Canadian Comfort Industries, (Dansons PelPRo and GlowBoy) has also become part of HHT
 
FYI.... Alladin became HHT in 2003 and aquired Harman later on :cool:
 
rooster1 said:
I think Harman had to sell for financial reasons. Seems like that bean counting now may not be a bad thing.
Click to expand...


I *think* the OP's original point was that the quality of the product *might* suffer under a company which does not concentrate in hearth products. As for my bean counter comment, well, I cant see how quality of a product would get BETTER when the R&D and production is dictated by the folks who count the beans. Although there is an argument to be said for a company which might otherwise be out of business for lack of funding. I am curious tho, whether today, if someone asked Dane H. if he would have done the same thing knowing what he knows today, if he would have done the same thing.......2008 was a huge year for stove sales, no one knew it would be at the time, and this deluge happened just a couple short months after the HHT deal-io.
 
Harman had 20,000 stoves in warehouse in early 08, sold out because of bills owed. Then they sold like hot cakes, some stoves were dated 06, upset some customers.
 
slls said:
Harman had 20,000 stoves in warehouse in early 08, sold out because of bills owed. Then they sold like hot cakes, some stoves were dated 06, upset some customers.
Click to expand...

I did not know that;ex Small company with excess inventory and virtually no advertising is a recipe for cash flow disaster!!!
 
Lousyweather said:
Harman....around 2008 or so, I believe......as for quality.....4-5 years behind us, cant really say the quality has gone downhill, personal preferences aside. Dane is still in R&D. I can say the company is more beancounter-ish much more than ever before...you know, folks with ZERO experience in the field running the show (in SOME cases)....but hey, everyone has to start somewhere
Click to expand...


Knowing now what was going on back then, I can certainly see why Dane sold the company. The bug in the P-Series control panel so the stove will not shut down was huge! Couple that with the fact that that most people did not have surge protectors on their pellet stoves and the auger triac in the panels pop so easily! With 20,000 stoves in warehouses that may all be affected under warranty is a recipe for financial ruin!

The upsurge in stove sales probably provided R&D the money to fix the bug in the control panel! Although the fact that power outages and surges still blow out the triacs, the auger triac seems to be the most common to fail, it seems like most companies still do not have a fix for that. US stove does have onboard control panel fuses for each triac. I really applaud them for that extra design that takes up alot of valuable real estate on their control board. Not sure if that is a complete fix but it should really help!

Still many Harman stoves out there today, that the only way to shut them down is to let them run out of wood pellets! The new panels do have the bug fix! Anyone need one?
 
Yeah don, Dane sold the company he built up for the past 30 years because a bug in the control boards... It was just too much for him to handle and be caved.

I doubt it had anything to do with a record setting economy where everyone was enjoying warmer winters and low fuel oil prices. When you say back then... You have to consider the time leading up to the sale not just the moments right before. It was nothing to do with stove or component quality I'm sure. People loose control when they borrow more than they can meet terms on. Business is a gamble, there is no certainty.
 
smwilliamson said:
Yeah don, Dane sold the company he built up for the past 30 years because a bug in the control boards... It was just too much for him to handle and be caved.

I doubt it had anything to do with a record setting economy where everyone was enjoying warmer winters and low fuel oil prices. When you say back then... You have to consider the time leading up to the sale not just the moments right before. It was nothing to do with stove or component quality I'm sure. People loose control when they borrow more than they can meet terms on. Business is a gamble, there is no certainty.
Click to expand...


It all ties together Scott, If there are no sales to fix the bugs then how can you go on? He did stay on and was probably instrumental in fixing the bug being in R&D. It all makes sense!

Do you think having a store and all the overhead that goes with it plus paying someone to be there all the time, will increase your biz that much more? I thought you were doing fantastic without the brick and mortor?
The only difference with a store is you get walk-ins that come in and kick the tires.
 
The store for me is an extension of the growth of my biz. Had I started off with the store my model would be different. Truthfully, I have never really wanted a store but I move too much product to keep it in my house...plus my wife and I kinda want the garage back. My biz is mature enough now that it can pay for the store...but the showroom component is nice. Anything I can sell now is gravy cause I've already established the biz model. And we now have a home for it.

Harman took a huge risk building a facility to make them a manufacturer on a world level. That risk culminated with 23,000 stoves in inventory and as Dean said,"Not a damn good reason for anyone to buy them." It wasn't a bug in the boards...I bet Dean wishes that wishes that was the issue. FYI, if control boards had such an issue I'm sure whoever made the control boards for Harman was on the hook for that.

To go back to your opinion of the brick and motor....you know, and you'll find out if your serious about your biz, that its not what you hope happens in biz, it's what you make happen in biz. It's gonna be somewhat hard for me to eventually sell my biz if I don't have a home for it. I'm projecting forward here. Damn it, if nothing else, at least when people swing by, it won't be in my driveway. Personal and biz separated from here in out. Love it.
 
A lot of these sales and mergers were friendly and many, even most, of the management came from the old companies.

As a couple examples, one of the Quad founders - Alan Trusler - still works at HHT. Same goes for the original Heat N' Glo team and much of the Harman team...

The Harman acquisition was due to financial matters - the company simply bit off more than they could chew. It happens. They would have been better off making "x" number of stoves and not trying to satisfy everyone...hindsight is 20/20. It had absolutely nothing to do with product quality or lack of such.

I was thinking about HHT today - they have taken some brave stances over the years as compared to some peers. For example, they never did the unvented gas fireplace even though they could have made tens of millions in sales. They also publish accurate efficiency numbers on many of their products - numbers other makers often purposely leave out (Energuide numbers, for instance)...

The Hearth biz is not exactly a profit machine. I've followed the financials of most of the leading companies and most of them would not impress. They are businesses where, if you work long and hard, you can survive...
 
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Having a store is a nice addition to the Biz. Is it next to any railroad tracks for those big freight car deliveries?
 
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