Help Please

[Treemoss]

Okay so the chimney installer came today and he told me he will do a 90° elbow 2 ft above the stove through the wall thimble than a 4 foot horiizontal run to the tee. Then straight up passed the gutter with wall brackets. There will be no 30° offsets passed the gutter. He will go up 18 ft straight up passed the glitter from the tee. I think that will help with draft.

 

[Dix]

** He will go up 18 ft straight up passed the glitter from the tee. I think that will help with draft.**

I want to see this glitter, and I may want to know where to buy it.

Wood stove glitter .... now that's an awesome idea !!



**sorry, had too**

 

[begreen]

Stove bling. Gamma will like that.

 

[Treemoss]

I want to see this glitter, and I may want to know where to buy it.

Wood stove glitter .... now that's an awesome idea !!



**sorry, had too**

it's nice with pink sparkles lol. Should of checked my post.
Hope all goes well.

 

[Treemoss]

I think I might have started something. Who will put up the money I will come up with the glitter, butterflys and pink hearts for all thos who want bling. In reality will this be a better set up,than before.

 

[ridemgis]

Which makes me wonder . . . which hearth.com member is Yoda? Han Solo? Chewbacca? Princess Leia? Luke Skywalker? Darth Vader? The Emperor?

I think I would make a fine ewok.

Oh man, BrotherBart is definitely yoda! Grumpy but wise. ;>)

 

[Dix]

Oh man, BrotherBart is definitely yoda! Grumpy but wise. ;>)

“Feel the force!”

 

[ridemgis]

The veterans here are giving great advice. I'm just harping on here but I just feel the need to chime anyway, on focusing a bit - don't sacrifice a bit of function / stability / safety for the sake of "form". Your installer (hopefully) is a good one, just saying that the vibe I get (from reading the responses here from seasoned burners) is not a real good one. I would exhaust every possibility / option - re-arrange the room, relocate the stove so that a straight up run (or even a reasonable offset in your connector pipe) would put the chimney in proximity to any wall in the room above, and go out the roof. Your installer could get you set up and running, and a chase upstairs might even be a DIY thing you could do later, as time permits. Ironically, this might be a better look anyway, without all the chimney, bends, clamps, brackets, offsets, etc. coming out of your porch and up the wall. For sure ask the installer(s) for all options.

Good luck with the new install....

Another plug for finding a way to go straight up: I'm a newbie with a pretty free breathing stove who was faced with building a chase through the bedroom above or taking a couple of twists and turns around an existing chimney and the roof soffit. I can tell you that I stressed over it for weeks before accepting the reality of function before form.

Straight up was (and is) the way to go. With a 24 foot total flue height, I do have a little too much draft on a cold day, but that is far more desirable than the alternative. And despite being new to wood burning, I got through the first season with only a couple cups of creosote accumulation.

So I'm with bag of hammers, find a place for the stove where you can do it right and you won't be disappointed!

PJ

 

[Ashful]

Even a pipe up thru a second floor room can work. Here's a house we were looking at before we bought our current place. 6400 sq.ft., very high-end restoration of a 1740's mill, so we ain't exactly talking trailer park, here.



Unfortunately, I searched my collection of photos on this house, and could not find an actual photo of the pipe going thru the master bedroom. It was simply a brightly polished section of double or triple wall pipe, no chase, but nicely finished with floor and ceiling flanges. Probably gave off a little heat into the bedroom, when the stove was cranking.

This place was 4 stories, so it was one heck of a run of pipe! The soffets / gutters were 53 feet above the lawn, according to the people who had done the roof.

 

[bag of hammers]

Joyful that is a nice looking room. That house must have been sweet. The flanges are a great idea.

 

[Treemoss]

Even a pipe up thru a second floor room can work. Here's a house we were looking at before we bought our current place. 6400 sq.ft., very high-end restoration of a 1740's mill, so we ain't exactly talking trailer park, here.

View attachment 110707

Unfortunately, I searched my collection of photos on this house, and could not find an actual photo of the pipe going thru the master bedroom. It was simply a brightly polished section of double or triple wall pipe, no chase, but nicely finished with floor and ceiling flanges. Probably gave off a little heat into the bedroom, when the stove was cranking.

This place was 4 stories, so it was one heck of a run of pipe! The soffets / gutters were 53 feet above the lawn, according to the people who had done the roof.

Looks really nice, But the pipe will be in the middle of the room. I can't change the room anyway to get a straight run. So it looks like it will have to be a 90 to the thimble to the tee then up 18 ft and hope for the best. I know I will really have to heat up the chimney before I get a fire going.

 

[Sprinter]

I could ask the chimney sweep installer about the 45° angles instead of the 90. The installer said he will add an additional Four foot pipe on top for better draft. The inside will have double insulated black pipe so hopefully that would help. I'm just thinking this might be a bad idea that I'm going to have problems with my whole life.
This is what my install on my stove says.
For installation of your chimney connector, the following recommendations may be useful.
• The chimney connector must be short and straight. For optimum performance it is recommended that
all horizontal runs have a minimum 1/4” rise per foot, with the upper end of the section toward the
chimney.
• To insure a good draft, the total horizontal length of the connector should never exceed 8’ to 10’. In
the case of vertical installation, the total length of the connector can be longer and connected without
problem to the chimney at the ceiling level.
• There should never be more than two 90° elbows in the entire connector and chimney system. Never
start with a 90° elbow. Always go up vertically for at least 2 feet from the flue collar before using a 90°
elbow.
So far as what my stove says about the installation my setup should work is this true or not.

Did you determine if two 45's rather than two 90's is feasable?

I looked up the manual on this stove: http://www.napoleonproducts.com/downloads/fireplaces/manuals/W415-0763.pdf
and sure enough, on page 14, they do seem to allow 8 to 10 feet of horizontal run and two 90's. Makes me wonder if it's a typo and they meant inches, but that is what they say.

 

[begreen]

It sounds like you have an installer that understands the issues. With 18' of vertical pipe outside it could draft ok once warmed up. Use double-wall on the connector to keep the flue gases hot. The key challenge now will be the wood. Get boxes of dry construction or cabinetry scraps and order up some SuperCedars for easier hotter starts. And do your darndest to get the driest wood possible, even if it costs more this year.

 

[Treemoss]

Yes, me and the installer both went over our options and he said the best would be a 90° out the wall to the tee straight up 18 ft. The stove pipe will be double insulated all the way out. I am even doing black double insulated inside. You are absolutely right about to get good wood this year I probably will have to pay more money. but I have to do it right and make sure I have good draft with well seasoned wood. I understand now how important good wood means. About tho's superceder for starting fires. They Contain wax and whatever else. will that put any coating on my new pipe inside that I would have to worry about. I was thinking about those catering burners that go on the bottom tray to use to heat up.


Yes sprinter about the 45's, he said the 90 will be fine and it looks better. Just that I have to heat up the pipe well before I start a fire. Also about the napoleon manual, I am surprised too that a horizontal run could be so long and be ok. I guess it would be okay if the manual said you can go that long. so I think my setup should work just fine then. I hope.

 

[begreen]

Super cedars are not simple parrafin pucks. They burn for a very long time and cleanly. They won't affect the flue. Blaze King packs a sample in with their cat stoves.

 

[Sprinter]

I'll just double up with begreen regarding SuperCedars. They seem to be the favorite commercial starter on this forum. And the DIY'ers here make wax-based starters all the time with shavings or dryer lint. You only need 1/4 of a disc.

With a marginal draft, you may want to consider using the "top-down" method of starting, with the kindling on top and let the fire burn down to the larger fuel. It may get the flue hot quicker that way. It's a common and successful method for stoves.

 

[Treemoss]

Thank you guys for your advice and i will get a couple of boxs of superceder. Also will look for some cabinetry scraps from the local cabinet factory. Now I am in the hunt for fire wood. I want to get at least 2 to 3 cords for this year. I will try that top down methed of starting sounds good. Thank you agian for all of your advice and help i appreciated it very much. I am sure you guys will be helping me down the road when I try and fine tune my stove for Optimum performance. Pic's soon.

 

[Dix]

http://longisland.craigslist.org/for/4018049939.html

This firewood looks questionable, if the pic is reliable

http://longisland.craigslist.org/grd/4009353992.html

http://longisland.craigslist.org/fod/3994645821.html

And again, the Envi bricks

http://longisland.craigslist.org/grd/4003490886.html

 

[begreen]

The first looks a little better but all are questionable except for the Envi bricks. You don't measure moisture on the end grain. Resplit that split and test it in the middle of the freshly exposed face of wood.

 

[Dix]

The first looks a little better but all are questionable except for the Envi bricks. You don't measure moisture on the end grain. Resplit that split and test it in the middle of the freshly exposed face of wood.

All taken directly from Craigs list. I'm voucheing for no one on this thread, firewood dealer wise, except the Envi bricks. They are still way cheaper than oil, and you can mix in some not so great firewood with them.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Even a pipe up thru a second floor room can work. Here's a house we were looking at before we bought our current place. 6400 sq.ft., very high-end restoration of a 1740's mill, so we ain't exactly talking trailer park, here.

View attachment 110707

Unfortunately, I searched my collection of photos on this house, and could not find an actual photo of the pipe going thru the master bedroom. It was simply a brightly polished section of double or triple wall pipe, no chase, but nicely finished with floor and ceiling flanges. Probably gave off a little heat into the bedroom, when the stove was cranking.

This place was 4 stories, so it was one heck of a run of pipe! The soffets / gutters were 53 feet above the lawn, according to the people who had done the roof.

OMG bro, what a beautiful room!

 

[Treemoss]

Thanks for the Craig list ad's, I am going to look at a couple of places today to see if they really have dry wood. I also ordered 48 superceder pucks today for $35 delivered. Is that an ok price.

 

[begreen]

Did you get the 10% hearth.com discount? You will find that you only need a quarter of the SuperCedar to start the fire if you have good kindling. Or two quarters at the most if you are in a hurry.

 

[Treemoss]

I tried the hearth 10% off and they said it was no longer available. Wow only need a quater of apiece for each start with kindlin.That means I really have 192 starts not 48. Now that's a deal.

 

[Dix]

I tried the hearth 10% off and they said it was no longer available. Wow only need a quater of apiece for each start with kindlin.That means I really have 192 starts not 48. Now that's a deal.

Super Cedars are awesome !!