Some interesting video clips on wood boilers

[700renegade]

I think I finally threw the BS flag when I saw them point out the pop rivet used a cotter pin. Obviously this Vigas was used as a test mule in their factory - it didn't just accidentally land there naked from outer space with the nozzle perched on top. In the process of disassembling everything most likely one of the Econoburn guys lost the original cotter pin and picked up something off the floor to stuff in there. To specifically point that out as an example of shoddy construction was deceitful if I'm correct in my assumption.

Welds on the econoburn do look good, too bad one can't see the internal welds as used on the Vigas to compare. You should have filmed the light gauge bottom pan on the Vigas - if it's like mine it looks like my 11 year old welded it ( of course it's not a critical area so works just fine anyway ) We got a bunch of footage of the non-machined damper in one, but never got to see the fine craftsmanship of the other. Oh yea - I noticed the tapped holes in the exhaust collar of the Vigas where the oxygen and temp sensors go for the Lambda controls - surprised those holes weren't pointed out as a defect that would leak fumes into the house...... Oh wait - that might get people wondering why they are there.

Lets face it, there are probably only 20 of us here that watched the video and got rustled up - and we're already committed to a boiler and not in the market for a new one. This won't have any effect on sales within this audience. It probably would be on page 2 or 3 on it's way to the dustbin of history if the video's producer hadn't stormed in here to defend it and stir things up. Thou doth protest too much.... Though I don't fault him for doing so as no one likes to have their work picked on.

If the video is refilmed they should point out the crappy door latching method of the "Import". That is fair game in my book.

 

[Obadiah]

I think I finally threw the BS flag when I saw them point out the pop rivet used a cotter pin. Obviously this Vigas was used as a test mule in their factory - it didn't just accidentally land there naked from outer space with the nozzle perched on top. In the process of disassembling everything most likely one of the Econoburn guys lost the original cotter pin and picked up something off the floor to stuff in there. To specifically point that out as an example of shoddy construction was deceitful if I'm correct in my assumption.

Welds on the econoburn do look good, too bad one can't see the internal welds as used on the Vigas to compare. You should have filmed the light gauge bottom pan on the Vigas - if it's like mine it looks like my 11 year old welded it ( of course it's not a critical area so works just fine anyway ) We got a bunch of footage of the non-machined damper in one, but never got to see the fine craftsmanship of the other. Oh yea - I noticed the tapped holes in the exhaust collar of the Vigas where the oxygen and temp sensors go for the Lambda controls - surprised those holes weren't pointed out as a defect that would leak fumes into the house...... Oh wait - that might get people wondering why they are there.

Lets face it, there are probably only 20 of us here that watched the video and got rustled up - and we're already committed to a boiler and not in the market for a new one. This won't have any effect on sales within this audience. It probably would be on page 2 or 3 on it's way to the dustbin of history if the video's producer hadn't stormed in here to defend it and stir things up. Thou doth protest too much.... Though I don't fault him for doing so as no one likes to have their work picked on.

If the video is refilmed they should point out the crappy door latching method of the "Import". That is fair game in my book.

I assure you that the boiler mentioned was not used as a test mule as you suggest, it was never fired or used, but a customer had bought it and changed his mind and traded it in for money off on a new Econoburn. That rivet was there right from the factory. It was never altered in any way other than to protect the name of manufacture as we never intended for that to become part of the equation here as both Econoburn and I feel that is a very wrong thing to do. If this becomes a bashing point against that company then I think I will go back and edit the video and possibly remove that part all together. I don't want to get into a pissing contest with them which is where this seems to be headed now.

 

[Obadiah]

Thank you.

I appreciate your support of this site, and would venture to guess that nearly all here would agree.

Up front comparisons are definitely something I can appreciate when purchasing something like this. Sure the Econoburn costs more, but tell me and other potential buyers why. Thicker steel, more stays, better welds, etc.

It really goes a long way with me if all the products a vendor is selling have been evaluated by him in this manner. If someone wants an import (which you sell) because of price point, at least he had the chance to find out the real differences that go into price, rather than just reading the manufacturer's notes and promotional material, which I find to be fairly generic in most cases. Video or printed evaluations make it easy to convey your impressions of things like manufacturer support, parts availability, warranty claims frequency and service, and level of user input for successful operation.

Thanks for your support Arbutus! From a U-pper eh? I went to school in Houghton/Hancock at Mich Tech. I really enjoyed living in the UP with my Finnish friends and lived in Ahmeek for a while. I guess it was prep school for my move to Montana. Same kind of snow falls, but we have real mountains here. I miss Lake Superior and Isle Royal. Be well my friend!

 

[JP11]

Something doesn't add up in this. Who buys a NEW boiler.. never uses it, and "trades" it in for another brand??

And what kind of market is there on used boilers, where a dealer even would take a trade??

JP

 

[maple1]

I could maybe see a dealer taking back an unused boiler on trade for a boiler of a different brand that he also sells. That would be a good dealer accommodating a paying customer who just happened to change his mind last-minute like.

I wouldn't think that alone would result in the trade-in ending up naked at the manufacturer of boiler # 2 though.

 

[JP11]

I get that.. buy why would you buy something, never use it, then miraculously change your mind? I haven't watched the video, don't really care that much. Just responding to the premise all together. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

JP

 

[Obadiah]

Something doesn't add up in this. Who buys a NEW boiler.. never uses it, and "trades" it in for another brand??

And what kind of market is there on used boilers, where a dealer even would take a trade??

JP

I was told the guy purchased it for a place he was building a retreat in the mountains of Upstate NY, stored it until his place was finished and was ready to install it, un-crated it and started to install it, did not like what he saw, said heck with this thing, selling dealer would not return it because over a year had transpired since purchase. Started doing his homework for a replacement, cut a deal with Econoburn for a new boiler, they gave him money off on the Econoburn for the trade in, when he picked up his new Econoburn, he dropped it off, the rest is now history.

 

[goosegunner]

I have been apprehensive about posting anything in this thread because I own a Econoburn 200. With 3 years first hand experience I will say that it is not the perfect boiler but I don't believe there is a perfect boiler. There is always room for improvement.

I have read many posts by the Dealer and owners of the other brand displayed in this video. They seem to enjoy taking pot shots at the Econoburn for its lack of sophisticated controls and positive pressure fan. Suddenly, after the skins come off the boilers and they are posted for others to see it is BS and not right to bash other brands. This was started long before the videos were made and posted some just don't like what was discovered under the hood.

gg

 

[Obadiah]

I have read many posts by the Dealer and owners of the other brand displayed in this video. They seem to enjoy taking pot shots at the Econoburn for its lack of sophisticated controls and positive pressure fan. Suddenly, after the skins come off the boilers and they are posted for others to see it is BS and not right to bash other brands. This was started long before the videos were made and posted some just don't like what was discovered under the hood.

gg[/quote]
Hats off, thank you sir!

 

[__dan]

Watching the video, I learned more about the Econoburn than I knew previously. That's all good and the presenter's enthusiasm for the unit came through in the video. I did not see any need to make any changes. Competitiveness is natural so it's normal to see the competition subject to and held to some scrutiny.

Same thing with the bashing, it is in the eye of the reader. What one reader sees as bashing, I was seeing as competitive comparison, relatively accurate discretionary judgement, and some overly sensitive complaints of bashing.

Boiler buyers are making a long term capital investment, saving their money to make a purchase that is expected to last and perform more than 20 years. They are essentially marrying their boiler and because of the cost, cannot easily undo their choice. So competitive features and characteristics like smoke in the house, part load performance, ease of fueling and lighting, quality of combustion and flue gas, long term reliability, dealer service and parts availability, long term total cost (not upfront short term cost) are all necessary factors the buyer needs to know before spending large capital.

The bashing was in the imagination of the overly sensitive reader. Competitive offers should expect some scrutiny. The thread otherwise did a good job of demonstrating and informing the reader about what the Econoburn offers and where it differs from the competition. The reader, buyer, needs to know if it is an inside the house or an outside the house boiler because of the smoke and dust issues.

 

[Obadiah]

Watching the video, I learned more about the Econoburn than I knew previously. That's all good and the presenter's enthusiasm for the unit came through in the video. I did not see any need to make any changes. Competitiveness is natural so it's normal to see the competition subject to and held to some scrutiny.

Same thing with the bashing, it is in the eye of the reader. What one reader sees as bashing, I was seeing as competitive comparison, relatively accurate discretionary judgement, and some overly sensitive complaints of bashing.

Boiler buyers are making a long term capital investment, saving their money to make a purchase that is expected to last and perform more than 20 years. They are essentially marrying their boiler and because of the cost, cannot easily undo their choice. So competitive features and characteristics like smoke in the house, part load performance, ease of fueling and lighting, quality of combustion and flue gas, long term reliability, dealer service and parts availability, long term total cost (not upfront short term cost) are all necessary factors the buyer needs to know before spending large capital.

The bashing was in the imagination of the overly sensitive reader. Competitive offers should expect some scrutiny. The thread otherwise did a good job of demonstrating and informing the reader about what the Econoburn offers and where it differs from the competition. The reader, buyer, needs to know if it is an inside the house or an outside the house boiler because of the smoke and dust issues.

Hats off again and thank you!

 

[creepingmoses]

I would like to say thank you for posting your video. I am in the process of researching a boiler purchase and more people need to show quality manufacturing vs poor. This being my first week viewing this forum affords me a unbiased opinion on the video. It was a bit goofy/infomercial but at the end of the day it was informativ, educational and harmless. I do not know what kind of boiler the other one is but I do feel bad for the people who bought it and had to see its internals the hard way but I will venture a guess that the undisclosed boiler is most likely at am to good to be true price point. I know , I have fallen victim to the "what a bargain pricing) ,we all did. Now is a great time , a global market, please send me your boilers , I will review all of them , I will test everyone of them and if you are proud of your craftmanship then it will ship if you are ashamed then it will not be included in my boilers from dusk to dust review.

"The bitter taste of poor quality remains long after the sweet taste of a low price is forgotten."
- John David Stanhope

 

[kopeck]

And you did read the whole thread and take the video with a grain of salt, right?

K

 

[BrotherBart]

This one needs to go to bed.

 

[webbie]

Thanks for closing this one down, BB......

It would take a book to comment on all of it, but two small points.....

1. Whether American, Euro, Asian, etc. robots are replacing a lot of human work, which is a good thing. A laser cutter does a heck of a better job than a guy with a torch. A tractor and combine beats the old way. Such is progress.

2. Freight - I always found it amazing that the cost of bringing a container from Europe (and even from Asia these days) to my door is the same or less than shipping a single tractor trailer load across the lower 48. Amazing, but true. Another benefit of robotics and standards...and, yes, tens of thousands of lost jobs because they don't have to load and unload ships by hand.

Most of the other points here are self-evident. Lots of good stuff made all over the globe. I've been very close to the QC process in the boiler biz (some here, some in Denmark) and it's pretty amazing how tough the standards are!