Burned out Control Board Mnt. Vernon AE

[CJS]

Hi All:

Have enjoyed this forum for years as a silent partner.

Original owner of MVAE. The stove was installed in 2007 the control board upgraded a year or 2 later 7000-456 REV C. Like everyone on this board I've had to go through trouble shooting exercises replacing various igniters etc. but overall have been very happy with this stove.

Got the call from the Wife yesterday chemical smell coming from stove when it started. I knew right away that it was probably that all to familiar phenolic compound of a control board was probably the culprit and yes removed the control board and found the AC input which is near the igniter switch was fried, so bad that the connector is melted together. Fuse still good.

My concern is what would cause this to fry? I do not want to replace the board and have the same thing happen. Could it have been a loose connection or do I need to trace back to some other issue? The trouble shooting manual is of no help.

Thank you, CJ

 

[stoveguy13]

i would say it is the ignitor shorting out the they have upgrade the wiring harness and have add two fuse to the wiring harness that go in line to the ignitor to prevent this. the ignitor is most likely installed so it is making contact with the fire pot

 

[CJS]

i would say it is the ignitor shorting out the they have upgrade the wiring harness and have add two fuse to the wiring harness that go in line to the ignitor to prevent this. the ignitor is most likely installed so it is making contact with the fire pot

Thanks so much for the quick response. I bet this might be the cause, although the board was upgraded have been going through igniters at the same rate. Do you know if there was there a recall for this? Wouldn't the wiring harness been updated when the board was originally upgraded?

 

[stoveguy13]

no re-call just a running change to the unit started showing up sometime last year during the season the ignitor leads can be changed by them self it component has it on wiring check with your dealer they can most likely order the part for you

 

[joescho]

no re-call just a running change to the unit started showing up sometime last year during the season the ignitor leads can be changed by them self it component has it on wiring check with your dealer they can most likely order the part for you

These fueses are in-line between the control board and the connectors for the igniter, or are they part of the wiring of a new ignitor? If they are between the control board and the connectors for the igniter, I guess I'm following them back to the board to see if I have the in-line fuses.

I have a 2011 MV...

That's really good information, Thanks.....

 

[stoveguy13]

if you look at the right side of your stove where the ignitor leads come out from inside the stove they should be right there they did not go in till 2012

 

[joescho]

if you look at the right side of your stove where the ignitor leads come out from inside the stove they should be right there they did not go in till 2012

thanks.. If I read your previous post correctly it looks like I can get them and retro-fit. That looks like a good idea to do.

CJS if you come up with a part number for the wiring I would be interested.

EDIT: Part # SRV7034-273

 

[hooter04]

Had the same thing happen on my 2007 mt vernon,and it was caused by a bad ignitor.I installed the new wiring harness with the inline fuses so hopefully this will never happen ahain

 

[stoveguy13]

if you look at the right side of your stove where the ignitor leads come out from inside the stove they should be right there they did not go in till 2012 thanks.. If I read your previous post correctly it looks like I can get them and retro-fit. That looks like a good idea to do. CJS if you come up with a part number for the wiring I would be interested. EDIT: Part # SRV7034-273

YES no problem with retro fit

 

[Madcodger]

Thanks for info and part #. Have 2010 MVAE and will likely retrofit to protect board. I'm convinced the AE is a product that's great in concept but that Quad simply lacked adequate engineering talent in a key area or two as they designed it. Their execution with the thermostat is just awful, but I still like the stove. Just wish I could mod it some to make up for its shortcomings.

 

[hooter04]

Just out of curiosity,Was it a 300 watt ignitor,or the standard 500 watt ignitor that shorted out?Mine was the standard 500 watt that shi$%^ the bed. I also plan to put the newer wiring harness on my 2009 MvAe stove,that has a 300 watt ignitor in it.

 

[Madcodger]

Just out of curiosity,Was it a 300 watt ignitor,or the standard 500 watt ignitor that shorted out?Mine was the standard 500 watt that shi$%^ the bed. I also plan to put the newer wiring harness on my 2009 MvAe stove,that has a 300 watt ignitor in it.

For me, was original higher wattage ignitor that went. Didn't short but rather burned out, an issue w/ AE due to frequency of autoclean cycle. However, dealer mentioned that shorts are common after replacement due to way Quad runs the wiring in these stoves and failure of homeowners to route wires properly (not saying OP did that - just repeating dealer comments). It's not a great design nor made to be easy. I replaced with lower watt ignitor without any issues using good quality pellets. Suspect higher watt needed only for alternate fuels.

 

[hooter04]

Yes higher watt is only for alternate fuels.My wiring was routed to spec,no shorting in wires,made me believe it was an internal failure within the ignitor.

 

[CJS]

Yes higher watt is only for alternate fuels.My wiring was routed to spec,no shorting in wires,made me believe it was an internal failure within the igniter.

Since I've gone through about 10 igniters I do believe it was the 300 watt version. I have burned nothing but premium HW pellets in the stove. I agree great concept but lousy engineering. What concerns me is the stove would have kept running if I didn't have the wife shut it off. It actually restarted when I turned it back on to see where the problem was. If it wasn't for this forum I would not have known about the wiring upgrade. Based on feedback from my dealer I have written a cause for concern letter to Quad-fire explaining the situation. The dealer is also doing the same, they had no idea there was a newly designed harness. Honestly I am a bit concerned about firing it back up even with the new harness. Not sure if related or not but late in the season last year I had an igniter go bad, then the TC and then another igniter perhaps this was the beginning of the issue? I think this is a serious safety issue and everyone who owns this model should be made aware of the new harness.

 

[Madcodger]

Wow! Yeah, that looks like a Consumer Products Safety Commission issue. That might be the place to send those photos. Look like a recall should be made by Quad, supplying new harness to all for free.

 

[hooter04]

yes I also had to replace the thermocouple.My dealer gave me the control board and had me sign invoice,said he would contact tech @ hht and get back to me.Needless to say the board didn't cost me a dime.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Since I've gone through about 10 igniters I do believe it was the 300 watt version. I have burned nothing but premium HW pellets in the stove. I agree great concept but lousy engineering. What concerns me is the stove would have kept running if I didn't have the wife shut it off. It actually restarted when I turned it back on to see where the problem was. If it wasn't for this forum I would not have known about the wiring upgrade. Based on feedback from my dealer I have written a cause for concern letter to Quad-fire explaining the situation. The dealer is also doing the same, they had no idea there was a newly designed harness. Honestly I am a bit concerned about firing it back up even with the new harness. Not sure if related or not but late in the season last year I had an igniter go bad, then the TC and then another igniter perhaps this was the beginning of the issue? I think this is a serious safety issue and everyone who owns this model should be made aware of the new harness.

The type of damage shown in the photographs is not typical of a sudden massive overload. The connector likely overheated due to prolonged over-dissipation at the contacts. That can be caused by either higher current than the contact is designed for or by insufficient contact pressure. What governs the maximum load the contacts can handle is how hot they run (ie. will the plastic melt). If they run very hot for a long time, the contacts lose their springiness, and therefore, their contact pressure.
I don't know the specific contact and connector body used, but they look robust enough to handle the 500W heater for the intermittent duty that they see.
The new harness will protect against sudden catastrophic failure of the heater, but I am not sure that it will protect against the connector failure pictured.
That being said, I just ordered the new harness for my MVAE.
The $29 I paid for it is a reasonable price to protect a $590 control boardI

 

[hooter04]

Harvey your terminology is correct,but here's what happened to me.I put new board in without changing ignitor,and it started to burnout the board,matter of fact it did,had to have a friend fix the ribbon that burned.So it was not a loose comnection,but a bad ignitor in my case.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Harvey your terminology is correct,but here's what happened to me.I put new board in without changing ignitor,and it started to burnout the board,matter of fact it did,had to have a friend fix the ribbon that burned.So it was not a loose comnection,but a bad ignitor in my case.

I can understand it burning the trace off the circuit board, that's just a thin copper trace. It acts like a high current fuse. What doesn't make sense to me is melting the plastic connector body.

 

[hooter04]

yes that is very strange,like a loose connection@ the board.Is it possible the power could back feed because the circut is broken within the ignitor?

 

[Harvey Schneider]

yes that is very strange,like a loose connection@ the board.Is it possible the power could back feed because the circut is broken within the ignitor?

No, not feedback. That can only happen with reactive components that store electrical energy like inductors. Ignitors are simply resistors that dissipate electrical energy as heat.
Sounds like a loose connection. It could be contact pressure or it could be a cracked solder joint or a bad crimp on the cable. Judging by the burn I see in the photo, I think it was on the circuit board side that the heat was generated although a bad crimp cannot be ruled out.

 

[hooter04]

So with this new wiring harness with inline fuses, may or may not completely solve the problem.I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

So with this new wiring harness with inline fuses, may or may not completely solve the problem.I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

I'm in the same boat. I have committed to the new harness, but I am still skeptical.
The original design has a fuse on the hot leg of the AC. That should be sufficient. It makes no sense in fusing both sides unless the input hot and neutral lines are reversed. House wiring has been known to be screwed up, especially if somebody added a circuit for the stove.

 

[CJS]

Hi everyone - It took an email and then a phone call but Quad-fire is standing behind their product and sent me a new control board, upgraded wire harness and igniter, must assume the igniter is what went. Got everything installed and apparently I should have asked for a new 110v power lead which comes from the power block I assumed I would of received a new one with the board. I was hoping I could get the old one apart but no go that thing welded it self together with the board. So unfortunately will need to see if the dealer has one otherwise I'll need to wait a few more days for Quad to send a new one out. Will let you know how it goes. Good thing it is going to be a little warmer.

Cheers,

CJ

 

[CJS]

Hoping anyone confirm the part # for the power cord which I am looking for? It runs from the power supply unit to the control board AC current ... I believe it to be 7034-220.

Thanks