How to deal with a firewood ripoff?

[Ashful]

Doug Fir: 17.4 MBTU/cord (baseline)
Red Oak: 22.1 MBTU/cord (27% higher than DF)

DF is 23.5 - 26.6 mBTU/cord, black oak (Quercus kelloggii) is 25.8 - 27.4 mBTU/cord.
http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/home/heating_cooling/firewood.html

I've not used doug fir in cord wood form, but I've laid miles of it as flooring, there is simply NO WAY it is higher than red oak in BTU content.

http://chimneysweeponline.com/howood.htm

Here's another way of looking at it, as we all know the old adage, "dry weight is BTU's." Doug Fir = 33 lb/cu.ft. Red Oak = 45 lb/cu.ft. Both dry and seasoned.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wood-density-d_40.html

 

[MrWhoopee]

I've not used doug fir in cord wood form, but I've laid miles of it as flooring, there is simply NO WAY it is higher than red oak in BTU content.

http://chimneysweeponline.com/howood.htm

Here's another way of looking at it, as we all know the old adage, "dry weight is BTU's." Doug Fir = 33 lb/cu.ft. Red Oak = 45 lb/cu.ft. Both dry and seasoned.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wood-density-d_40.html

To quote Gallagher:
"I don't make this stuff up, I just report it"

I make no claim for red oak. If the table I referenced had listed red oak, I'm sure the number would have been higher than black oak (and higher than the value you quoted). The tables referenced use different values for the actual amount of wood in a cord (after deducting the air between splits) and I am sure there are other variations in the way the numbers were calculated. The values in one table do not compare directly to those in another.

My point was that, compared to other firewood available in the PNW, Doug Fir is no slouch.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Softwoods here in the East can season in a year or less, I've burned white pine that seasoned in 4 months over the summer. Not the best BTUs of course. Many hardwoods will also season in a year, including maple and locust.

Never burned Douglas Fir. How long does it take to season?

4-6 months

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Especially not free Douglas fir.

Looking at that bark I'm pretty sure you got Hemlock there, which would explain it's difficulty in splitting.

 

[Tom Wallace]

Looking at that bark I'm pretty sure you got Hemlock there, which would explain it's difficulty in splitting.

I managed to split 5 of the rounds after work today. Just had to use some technique, look for the existing cracks and try to split those. Some came apart easier than others.

There's some rot in the center of the rounds that were near the base of the tree. The wood in that center region of those rounds is like wet cardboard. I saw some carpenter ants in it last night, too. I may be able to get the rest of it split without having to rent a lot splitter. It's a good workout.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I managed to split 5 of the rounds after work today. Just had to use some technique, look for the existing cracks and try to split those. Some came apart easier than others.

There's some rot in the center of the rounds that were near the base of the tree. The wood in that center region of those rounds is like wet cardboard. I saw some carpenter ants in it last night, too. I may be able to get the rest of it split without having to rent a lot splitter. It's a good workout.

Punky wood is pretty much impossible to split - aim for the outer edges were the wood is solid.

On solid, yet tough to split, rounds do what you are doing by exploiting existing cracks. If that fails to achieve satisfactory results try peeling it from the outside like an onion.

 

[AGuy4That]

I've bought wood and have been scammed to varying degrees everytime.
The only way to deal with this is to cut your own. Love this site.

 

[Ashful]

Ditto. I have never bought wood and been entirely happy with what I got.

 

[jdogg]

I managed to split 5 of the rounds after work today. Just had to use some technique, look for the existing cracks and try to split those. Some came apart easier than others.

There's some rot in the center of the rounds that were near the base of the tree. The wood in that center region of those rounds is like wet cardboard. I saw some carpenter ants in it last night, too. I may be able to get the rest of it split without having to rent a lot splitter. It's a good workout.

Give it a go with a 8lb maul rather than a axe. A maul is harder to swing but won't stick in the wood near as bad. Also try to split it in below freezing temps when the water in the rounds is frozen.

 

[Bassmantweed]

The trouble with buying wood is why I went pellet.

If you have free good wood then A wood stove makes perfect sense. If you are going to buy wood you might as well buy it in a bag.

I still have my woodstove and will get back to harvesting my own wood, but for now it's pellets for me.

 

[BrotherBart]

The trouble with buying wood is why I went pellet.

If you have free good wood then A wood stove makes perfect sense. If you are going to buy wood you might as well buy it in a bag.

I still have my woodstove and will get back to harvesting my own wood, but for now it's pellets for me.

From the comments in the pellet room, buying pellets is just as big a crap shoot as buying cord wood.

 

[Bassmantweed]

From the comments in the pellet room, buying pellets is just as big a crap shoot as buying cord wood.

I'm the new guy around here but I've not seen anyone getting shorted on bags. I had a different problem with buying wood, it was usually too wet to burn. I have not had that problem since going pellet. Granted I have only burned 6 or 7 different types.

I also didn't goof around with my stove and can burn almost any pellet. Both definitely have their pros and cons.

 

[Ashful]

I think Bart is referring to:

a) Pellet quality, a constant frustration. I think fully half the posts by pellet stove owners on this forum are complaints about pellet quality.
b) Pellet shortages. Those posts start in about three weeks, and continue thru March, almost every year.

 

[Bassmantweed]

I think Bart is referring to:

a) Pellet quality, a constant frustration. I think fully half the posts by pellet stove owners on this forum are complaints about pellet quality.
b) Pellet shortages. Those posts start in about three weeks, and continue thru March, almost every year.

Got it.

I guess I have been lucky on the quality. As far as shortages, I guess if you wait until December to get them then you can't really complain about availability. Kind of like me not buying wood until October and complaining that it's wet. ;-)

Like I said each have pros and cons.

 

[JP11]

Fortunate enough to have my own woodlot, and plenty of room for processing.

It's the old saying.. want a job done right? do it yourself!

I KNOW my wood for next year will be good and dry. Reason I know.. it's been sitting on my pallets since this summer. Some of it since last summer.

I know my wood the year after that is gonna be dry. I'm splitting that now.

JP

 

[edge-of-the-woods]

You can put an Ad in Craigslist alerting others to which persons are scamming.

Definitely do this!

Also see if he is on Angie's list, and slam him there if he is.

 

[edge-of-the-woods]

In one of his ads he offers "u-haul" so you should call from a different number and see if he'll give you his address! Boom!

I like how you think

 

[Kevin*]

Then call the IRS

X2, I did that on another issue with a business and they were happy to have evidence (receipt) and go after them.

 

[sportbikerider78]

You should have paid him $132 and called it a day. 59% of a cord. It is your fault you got screwed.

I regularly buy and sell on craigslist. No checks. No promises of anything beyond what is in-front of your face. For people who don't understand that we are not building a relationship, we are completing a business transaction, they get it. For the rest, I don't want to talk to them. You get some weird people and some very nice people that are way too trusting of strangers.

 

[Doug MacIVER]

just went through this in Mass. a no response seller. ended up calling in a complaint to weights and measures. next day the local wts & mea. guy inspected the wood and agreed that I was 1/2 cord short on a 2 cord order. the seller was called that day. he was also called by his own town's wts. guy. apparently the state contacted both local wts & mea. departments. this guy had his wife deliver my refund. moral call wts & measures, local or state.

 

[edge-of-the-woods]

just went through this in Mass. a no response seller. ended up calling in a complaint to weights and measures. next day the local wts & mea. guy inspected the wood and agreed that I was 1/2 cord short on a 2 cord order. the seller was called that day. he was also called by his own town's wts. guy. apparently the state contacted both local wts & mea. departments. this guy had his wife deliver my refund. moral call wts & measures, local or state.

How did the guy inspect it? Did you have it stacked or in a pile? Just curious how he nailed the guy, I would think the seller could just lie and say you moved some of it or something.

 

[Doug MacIVER]

How did the guy inspect it? Did you have it stacked or in a pile? Just curious how he nailed the guy, I would think the seller could just lie and say you moved some of it or something.

emailed him within one week of delivery, called him ,explained in writing and verbally. wts & meas. saw one cord, saw the second stack,said ok cord and a half not two. i also had forwarded emails to the state with photos. most guys are ok dealing with shorts, this guy was something else. I couldn't burn any as it's not old enough. as far as hiding, moving it? sure he could accuse you of it but 99% of us just want what we contract for. calls from the state folks are what nailed the guy, they don't want to mess with them.

 

[2PistolPacker]

I've been selling firewood for 10 years and this kind of crap is what gives honest sellers a bad rap. I sell to mostly repeat customers so they know what to expect, a long bed truck will hold about a half a cord, cash only. I sell some on CL and send a picture of the wood stacked and a picture of the empty spot where it was right before delivery. I always encourage first time customers to drop by and pick out the wood they want for themselves, it saves them from worrying about the measurements. Where I do differ is that I expect cash payment before the wood is unloaded, I had a moron try to renegotiate the price of the wood after it was unloaded, figuring I won't want to reload it if we couldn't re-agree. He paid in full and I never unloaded first again. Since Craigslist is unregulated there is not much you can do except harass him. The police can't do anything, but you can warn other people about your experience. I'm doing that right now with a ripoff artist that owns a tree farm, taking deposits for a November planting and never delivering the trees. Check it out in Kansas City CL search for Karl Huffman, the ad is mine.

 

[husky345 vermont resolute]

I ordered some firewood last week from a guy on Craigslist. I've actually had good experience with this in the past, but this guy has turned into a real jerk. I ordered a cord. When he showed up, I immediately guessed his load was way less than a cord, and told him so. When he unloaded it and I stacked it, we measured it together. It was 7' x 3' x 3.5'. Which is 73 cubic feet. Roughly 59% of a cord.

His fee was $225 for the cord, and I stupidly agreed to pay that along with the agreement that he'd deliver the rest of the firewood Friday of last week. You can probably guess where this is going. He didn't show on Friday. I've called him and setup times for him to delivery multiple times since then and he never shows up, never calls me to say he's not coming. He's got excuses after excuses. At this point I'm convinced he has no intention of ever bringing me more firewood.

I know that it was a huge mistake on my part to pay for the whole cord when only 59% of a cord was delivered. But what are my options for dealing with this guy? He has many ads listed on Craigslist still: http://seattle.craigslist.org/searc...919&zoomToPosting=&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=. I only have his first name and his phone number. I've contemplated sending him on deliveries to vacant houses to waste his time and gas money. I hate being robbed, and this guy is proving himself to be a thief.

This is the reason I get my own firewood

 

[BCC_Burner]

How much do you want to mess with a guy who knows where you live over 75 dollars worth of wood? Seems awfully short sighted to me if he is a sleaze. This is also why I always wear my sidearm very prominently when I get wood, or for that matter, anything delivered to my house.

Coming to fix the sink? I'll be standing in the bathroom doorway watching with my phone in one hand taking photos and the other a short twitch away from my .38.