1949, one brick thick, wobbly chimney

[Mountain Lady]

Greetings from Western North Carolina!

I joined the forum today after a couple of months of lurking and researching. We have an 1,100 square foot single level farm house. It was built in 1949 and has an oil furnace powering strip radiators. Insulation is insufficient and random.

We want a Jøtul F 55 Carrabassett. The trick is this, our brick chimney is too thin (1 brick width snd no lining) and it can be pushed away from the roof. We had a $120 "inspection" from a company on Thursday and they were more interested in selling us their liner and "medium size" stove than telling us if our chimney is safe. When we told our stove shop about the experience they said that they would have a crew in our area on Tuesday and they will check our chimney out. They said that since our chimney has withstood winds for 65 years, it's a good sign, but their main concern is a chimney cave in.

So now we wait for the answer.

Has anybody got experience with a chimney cave in or a wobbly chimney that was successfully lined?

 

[jatoxico]

This a masonry chimney that you say "can be pushed away from the roof" do you mean you can move it by hand?? Unless I'm missing something I would not care how many wind storms it survived.

If that's the case I would not be comfortable lining it. Scrap it and put in a freestander with new stove pipe. Is the chimney being used for anything else? Old fireplace?

 

[begreen]

Yes, the chimney can be torn down in a few hours. Then replace it with a proper class A chimney and have peace of mind that it is safe and that your investment is going to stay in one place.

The F55 is going to be a lot of heat for 1100 sq ft in a mild climate unless the place is pretty drafty. Hope you like it warm.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

How about some pics.....

 

[bholler]

I would have to see it but many times we will drop a liner insulate with pour in mix that helps stabilize it and then if need be add support and re point. But it is also very possible it is beyond being worth fixing we need pics to have any idea

 

[tarzan]

I wouldn't be talked into focusing on how many wind storms it HAS survived. How many more it has left in it should be the focus of course.

 

[Mountain Lady]

jatoxico - When my husband is standing on the roof he can push the top of the chimney a couple inches from the house. We do not use the fireplace and chimney.


begreen - our goal is to pull warmth to the half of our house that stays cold due to insufficient insulation. It is a larger stove than typically needed for 1,100 square feet but we don't plan to burn full out 24/7. We're thinking bigger firebox for less wood loading at night. A fan to encourage air movement to the cold part of the house. Our fear is that a smaller stove won't put out enough heat to compensate for the heat loss where the house has insufficient insulation. The largest culprit is the garage door in our basement. The bedroom above the garage door is freezing when our thermostat reads 70°F. I welcome feedback on if our plan and stove choice is still sounding like overkill. Honestly. A smaller stove will be less expensive and that would be swell.

 

[Mountain Lady]

This is all the inspector said. When I say inspector I don't mean someone from the county. This was a chimney repair and sweeping company.

 

[bholler]

That chimney looks worth saving to me it looks like it needs a few courses at the top relayed and needs some flashing and pointing work but not to bad.

 

[Mountain Lady]

Now we are second guessing the size of the stove. Back to the research...

 

[begreen]

Has the fireplace ever been used? The chimney looks exceptionally clean.

 

[jatoxico]

I'll leave it to the experts as far as what your options are. Are you looking to put the new stove in while saving the old hearth? Guess it comes down to what the repair costs associated with the old chimney would be vs demo and new pipe. Take a pic of the fireplace. If it's nice it may be worth saving.

 

[Mountain Lady]

Has the fireplace ever been used? The chimney looks exceptionally clean.

There is a thimble (correct term?) above the mantle and burn marks on the floor from a freestanding stove. There was a dusting of ash in the fireplace.

 

[begreen]

That helps. It looks like you can go with either a rear vent stove that is low enough to vent under the lintel or a top vent stove. Tell us a bit more about the house and location. How high up in the mountains are you? How tightly sealed and insulated is the house? How open or closed off is the first floor plan?

 

[Mountain Lady]

We are in the mountains of Western North Carolina. Our elevation is about 2,000 feet above sea level.

The house is 66 years old. It still has an Edison fuse box! It was one of the first houses around to have a basement because it was built on an old road with dirt mounds on the side of it. The basement is wet, drafty, and best avoided. Above that is the main house. It is longer than it is narrow. There is a narrow hallway with rooms off to the side. This is the north end, the end with the bedrooms. The north end is always cold. The south end is more open and always warmer.

 

[begreen]

The F55 is a large stove. I suspect you would be fine with a smaller stove there, especially if this room is not large and separated from the south end of the house by a doorway and hallway. Take a look at the Jotul F45 Greenville and perhaps the Pacific Energy Alderlea T5.

 

[Mountain Lady]

Forgive the crayons. I needed to let my inner child out.

This is a basic layout. The stove will go in the livingroom in the south east part of the house. A large doorway is in between the livingroom and the rest of the house. It is 5' wide and 6.5' tall. The red arrows show the airflow from the stove to each room.

I really like the cast iron and steel Jotuls because they don't have ash pans, they are non-catalytic, have plain glass windows, and can load NS and EW. Well, I dislike the Rangley because of the top load feature. It took a month to sort through Buck, Hearthstone, Lopi, Vermont Casting and settle on Jotul. Before that I liked the F 400, despite some draft issues I read about.

 

[jatoxico]

You're also a candidate for an insert. One that extends onto the hearth will throw good heat even w/o a fan running and have less of a footprint in the room.

You'd have to close up the old thimble but aside from that should be no issue. You're looking at an insulated liver either way if you retain the masonry. Just another option.

 

[begreen]

Square firebox, 2 cu ft., clear glass, trivet top
http://www.pacificenergy.net/products/wood/cast-iron-stoves/alderlea-t5/

To improve heat distribution to the north end of the house you are probably going need to put a fan where I put the red oval. Put a table or box fan at the far end of the hallway, placed on the floor, pointing toward the woodstove. Run it on low speed. It will blow the cooler air down low, toward the woodstove. The denser cool air will be replaced with lighter warm air from the stove room. Running this way you should notice at least a 5F increase in the hallway temp after about 30 minutes running.

 

[begreen]

You'd have to close up the old thimble but aside from that should be no issue. You're looking at an insulated liver either way if you retain the masonry. Just another option.

I hate insulated liver, even with bacon...

 

[jatoxico]

I hate insulated liver, even with bacon...

Great, I usually clean up my posts if I see a mistake now I have to leave it!

 

[BrotherBart]

I hate insulated liver, even with bacon...

bholler will be along shortly to tell you that you have to break out your old liver.

 

[Mountain Lady]

Thanks for the fan advice. I would have just tried a ton of positions until something worked. You saved us time.

It's snowing!

The Alderlea is intriguing. I see two local stores where I could go see it. Providing they have one on display. I really like the store that is sending someone to see our chimney on Tuesday and they don't carry Pacific Energy. I wonder if they can order it if I like what I see.

What are the benefits of an insert over freestanding? Smaller footprint in the room, as jatoxico said. Can I still toss a Dutch Oven on top of an insert if the power goes out?

 

[Mountain Lady]

I'm pregnant so I can't do anything to my liver right now. I'll be having water as we watch our first fire.

 

[Mountain Lady]

You know, the fella at the stove store said that if we need to we can remove the top of the chimney and top it off with something. Liner? I don't know what. So I have this vision of a half brick/half metal tube chimney. I hope it doesn't come to that. It sounds funky looking. Another option is to make some sort of cap that would hold the liner stable and centered within the chimney. I think that option is if the chimney is deemed not awfully wobbly. Otherwise we are looking at a few thousand dollars to tear down and rebuild a chimney. How expensive would it be to just ignore the fireplace and chimney and set up the stove in a new place all together? Stick a new liner straight up through the roof. (sorry for incorrect terminology)