The "new and improved Greenwood boiler"

[sparke]

http://www.greenwoodusa.com/frontier-series-indoor-gasification-boiler-photos.php


I see some very interesting design changes, specifically the way combustion air enters and leaves the firebox. In my redesign my biggest challenge has been figuring out how to preheat and deliver secondary combustion air.

 

[sparke]

Check out page #6. I think they finally have the design on the right path. Major improvements in combustion efficiency. I wonder if they have finally made the heat exchanger easier to clean?


http://greenwood.zendesk.com/attach...=Greenwood_Frontier_CX_Manual_Version_0.8.pdf

 

[NNYorker]

Looks like the heat exchanger is turned 90*--- no penetrations in the top skin. This design looks like the one that should have been sold in the first place..... Hopefully much less issues for future buyers.

 

[WoodChoppa]

Shady characters for sure. I understand they declared bankruptcy and stuck pro-Fab who they contracted to build the original units with about 350 boilers. Now they're back!

 

[WoodChoppa]

Just found this under "About Us"

"A Note About Greenwood Technologies
In February of 2009, Greenwood Technologies (GWT) ceased operations - certain assets were acquired by Clean Energy Company. Unfortunately, Greenwood Clean Energy can not sell or support the Greenwood Furnace or Aspen Series. The information on this website regarding these products is provided for reference only and to assist dealers with their non-warranted inventory.

As a public service, Greenwood Clean Energy is providing information and a support forum for products sold by former Greenwood Technologies here: "


Same company same people out of Bellvue Wash. You want to give these b*ggers another chance to screw more people?

 

[NNYorker]

Sounds like a hauntingly familiar story..........i.e. Phillip Dougherty and Adobe Boiler,Enterprise Boiler,Royal Mountain Energy........ He also will help you out if you are interested in traveling..............American Travel Guide LLC.

 

[sparke]

I posted this thread for the design implications to refractory units. I have been working on my Greenfire this summer to obtain secondary combustion. For a few years there are many of us with this style unit that felt the design could be so much better. The new Greenwood unit is very close to what I wanted for a new design but could not accomplish without basically starting from scratch. I am going to settle for a refractory shelf at the top of the firebox with pre - heated secondary combustion air coming in under the shelf. I am hoping to get a secondary burn at the top of the unit. Super heating the exhaust stream that will flow over the Hex.

 

[NNYorker]

Sparke, I hear you , this design "looks" much better than the original Greenwood. I hope for everyones sake this thing is the "fix". I also hope the manufacturer ACTUALLY did some real field testing with these units. It seems 1st generation Greenwood owners did most of the field testing while in service. 5" exhaust out of the blower/inducer motor?? I hope they did their homework/testing and not set this thing up for failure from the onset. I would love to see another worthy product on the market for people to buy. A hybrid of outdoor and indoor gasser combined?? I purchased my other wood burner(the INFAMOUS one) for a little less wood prep, indoor placement.......Well, you know the rest.

 

[heaterman]

Sparke, I hear you , this design "looks" much better than the original Greenwood. I hope for everyones sake this thing is the "fix". I also hope the manufacturer ACTUALLY did some real field testing with these units. It seems 1st generation Greenwood owners did most of the field testing while in service. 5" exhaust out of the blower/inducer motor?? I hope they did their homework/testing and not set this thing up for failure from the onset. I would love to see another worthy product on the market for people to buy. A hybrid of outdoor and indoor gasser combined?? I purchased my other wood burner(the INFAMOUS one) for a little less wood prep, indoor placement.......Well, you know the rest.

As noted above, it's the same company. Why would a person expect anything different?

They messed up a lot of people when they copped out and declared BK. I know this sounds kind of harsh but please let them die off like they deserve.

getting a little cranky in my old age. ........

 

[tigermaple]

It is my understanding the "inventors" bought what remained of Greenwood and incorporated the improvements. In early 2009 when all hell was breaking loose in the markets the money men pulled out their funding from GW causing the bankruptcy. I have spoke with reps from the new GW and they describe the new unit as a" American Gasser" with the secondary chambers above the primary instead of reverse for euro gassers. This idea sounds intriguing to me as did the price point so I will go see one early next month in operation and report back. GW may not have the best name rep but at least the gov didn't have to bail them out like GM.

 

[heaterman]

If it's the same people, surely they must feel some obligation to all the owners and dealers that are left holding the bag currently. Who's bailing them out?

It's a mystery to me how a low dollar sign (price point) can cloud the judgement of ordinarily rational people.

 

[tigermaple]

Heaterman, I enjoy your posts and have benefited from your knowledge and advice. But, to turn your back on possible innovation because of a name or color is silly. Many good companies have gone out of biz and come back stronger after restructuring. I am not recommending people run out and buy this thing, as I have no clue it works. That's why I am researching them. I also( I maybe alone here) love my GW.
PS. It is not cheap.

 

[sparke]

Again, my original post has nothing to do with Greenwood other then they came up with the new design some of us have been trying to engineer ourselves. I don't have a Greenwood I have a Greenfire and technically any refractory type unit like ours are a rip off from Fred Seton the original designer/inventor. Again sidetracked.

I am not advocating for or against Greenwood. They have come up with a new design which looks like it should work. I personally have been experimenting with new designs for a while. My reason for the post is for refractory owners such as myself a forum to discuss the new design, find out how it works, post pics of our homemade new designs, etc... if you want to post about the ethics of Greenwood - please start another thread. I am interested in making our boilers better so we don't have to reinvest another 7K on a new boiler. I am interested in mechanics of the design not politics of one of many companies selling them.

Peace!

 

[WoodChoppa]

Sparke,
The problem with ignoring their past record is that new members will see these threads and the pretty new ads running below and may not know anything of their past record of poor design and business management that screwed a lot of people. How can you just give them a free pass? This attitude says a lot for the state of our economy and our nation I'm afraid. This company did not "prevail" they "bailed out" and "downloaded" their responsibility and obligations onto other companies and individuals and is now back in the game to make fresh $$$.

I know there is not much that can be done in reality to prevent this company from conducting business. But in this tiny little community called the "Boiler Room" floating in the far reaches of cyber space I think we are obliged to stand up and let it be known that this is not right or ethical.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

LOL @ anyone buying a GW with their eyes wide shut if they've spent any time here.

But I'm with Sparke and Tiger . . . good idea to find out WHAT they did/are doing to improve the design. Firing Dave Barber would be the single best design enhancement!!

Not saying I would run out and buy a N&IGW;. But mine has paid for itself.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

If they believe in the enhanced design, they should donate on to a real world user. I will gladdly run it and I will be the first to go on record if it's half as great as they think.

 

[heaterman]

I just get tired of companies claiming they have found a loop hole in the laws of physics or reinvented fire itself.

Face it. Burning wood efficiently and cleanly is absolutely not rocket science. There are only three things that have to be realized and addressed. .........

1> You don't cycle the fire once it is going.
2> Storage capacity should be sufficient to hold a complete burn
3> Water is the perfect storage medium for BTU's

Address those three things and you can pass the EPA standards with just about any decent combustion technology.

As far as all the new electronic technology goes (ie: lambda etc.) I wouldn't touch it unless the company has a very large presence here and is not going away. (Think Viessmann)
Econoburn makes a very well built unit right here in the USA.
EKO has been around long enough to be considered a stable import at the least with a good track record.
Tarm has obviously been around for decades with a very successful product and lots of happy customers.
Garn blows away the EPA PhaseII emission levels using real cord wood and zero electronic control of combustion plus they have tons of units out there over 20 years old.

The point is: There are a lot of very good, proven products from companies that have stellar track records and with all the changes going on in this industry that should be a major factor in a persons buying decision.

 

[ozzie88]

I benn looking at some of these replys and would like to share some of my ideas, I built my own boiler from a pile of metal and pipe,only thing I had to start was a top boiler tank from a new yorker boiler with vertical tubes. I pre-heat the outside air with the flue gases right after they exit the boiler ,the boiler is in basement. i have a 4inch pipe comeing in from outside with a ele. control flap that works with blower off water temp. then I built a 20 x 16inch dome on top[old propane tank] made a box around it then pipe 4inch to blower, from blower air goes to 3 different pipes to chambers all adj. seperatly and rap around outside bottom boiler so 10* air is heated to over 400 plus when it enters chambers,seem to work very good so far. I can control flame in bottom and top chamber [secondary is on top] and change color and size of flame,times I think it to hot? firebrick and panels get really bright red hot, From what I have seen it works as good as any of boilers you can buy and price is right too. I have the sections of boiler bolted so cleaning the top and tubes is easy also, takes about 45 min. to clean it get back running. Tghis thing is fully automactic with over heat controls built in also,just fill with wood and light.
I will share any other info I can with you or questions.

 

[henfruit]

Heaterman you forgot to mention vigas.Yes it is new in the us but it is in the same class as the ones you mentioned if not better. take eko they advertize they have been tested by omni labs to ul standards.not so omni labs does not have a completed file for them??? The garn is great but it is still an open system.

 

[Pat53]

I benn looking at some of these replys and would like to share some of my ideas, I built my own boiler from a pile of metal and pipe,only thing I had to start was a top boiler tank from a new yorker boiler with vertical tubes. I pre-heat the outside air with the flue gases right after they exit the boiler ,the boiler is in basement. i have a 4inch pipe comeing in from outside with a ele. control flap that works with blower off water temp. then I built a 20 x 16inch dome on top[old propane tank] made a box around it then pipe 4inch to blower, from blower air goes to 3 different pipes to chambers all adj. seperatly and rap around outside bottom boiler so 10* air is heated to over 400 plus when it enters chambers,seem to work very good so far. I can control flame in bottom and top chamber [secondary is on top] and change color and size of flame,times I think it to hot? firebrick and panels get really bright red hot, From what I have seen it works as good as any of boilers you can buy and price is right too. I have the sections of boiler bolted so cleaning the top and tubes is easy also, takes about 45 min. to clean it get back running. Tghis thing is fully automactic with over heat controls built in also,just fill with wood and light.
I will share any other info I can with you or questions.

Well done Ozz, got any pics you can share?

Pat

 

[2.beans]

the greenwood has to work see the pictures in there add!

 

[heaterman]

Heaterman you forgot to mention vigas.Yes it is new in the us but it is in the same class as the ones you mentioned if not better. take eko they advertize they have been tested by omni labs to ul standards.not so omni labs does not have a completed file for them??? The garn is great but it is still an open system.

I remember Vallaint (sp?) boilers from Europe. They were the largest boiler manufacturer in the world at the time and decided to set up shop here in the US. They were here for a while and then pulled out. Vigas, and all the rest like them, need a decade or so under their belt before I give them my personal stamp of approval. I know, I know, I'm a cranky crusty old b#*%&$d but I've seen way to many people get the wrong end of the stick in situations like that. Why risk it when there are so many good brands of products already here that offer the same level of performance?
Note to all............this is just my personal opinion. Capeche'?


RE: open systems/semi open systems...You say that like it's a bad thing?

 

[ozzie88]

Hello, Pat53, I have some photos on 3 different post I put on one [secondary be to hot] and another home made boiler I put on under ozzie88, You should be able to find them if not e-mail me I will send some,,

 

[djblech]

Do any of these units address a power outage overheat situation? After 2 overheats last year I would not even think of purchasing another boiler unless this problem was solved.(And that is if I could talk my wife into another one, which is very doubtful.) I know I could spend more money and come up with a solution, but why shouldn't it be part of the system. My plumber was surprised that a solid fueled appliance didn't have some kind of overheat protection.
Doug

 

[henfruit]

Doug, Why dont you put in an inverter to run you pump if you loose power?