New Jotul Firelight 12

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Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
19,974
Philadelphia
Well, I finally have my second big cat stove, another Jotul Firelight 12. Not sure it's the right stove for this situation, but we'll give it a try for a year or two, while we wait for something better to come along.

Very clean, with a new paint job, new gaskets all around, and new inner and rear burn plates. Cat chamber is rough, but useable, cat is supposedly 1 year old. Would've gotten pic's, but it's still sitting in my pickup in the garage. Didn't get home with it until 10pm.
 
Sounds like your patience has paid off...


You love the one you have. You already know how to operate it? Sounds like a winner to me.

But you know.... Pics, or it never happened ;)
 
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... or my impatience, as it may be.

I've had open hearth fireplaces my entire life, and last year was my first with a stove. It was an unusually warm year. It was my first year in a new house, and my wood was not properly seasoned. A squirrel got into our stove in January, destroyed the cat chamber, and we didn't get the replacement parts to put the stove back to use until March. The flue on my other stove is too large, masonry, and too short.

So... I wouldn't say I know how to operate anything quite right yet, but thanks to all the reading I've done on this forum, I feel like I'm pretty well on my way. :cool:
 
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Got it off the truck. Here it is.

IMG_0725.jpg IMG_0723.jpg

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Those are beautiful stoves... Its a shame they dont make a Cat model anymore. :(

They seem to have a winner with the 12. Its now the F600, correct? ?
 
Yep! The castings from the 12 were re-used for the F600, as near as I can tell. According to Mark at Jotul, they added some new interior bosses, etc., to permit the installation of the new non-cat hardware, but from the exterior they're the same stove.

I agree... it's a real shame Jotul doesn't make a cat stove anymore. I spoke with a few people at Jotul about this, pointing out how well BK is doing with their cat stoves, despite being less attractive than most Jotuls. They all agreed there are advantages to cat stoves for those using them for heating, but conceeded that they had more warranty issues with their cat stoves, due to too many customers not following simple directions. No painted wood, no pressure treated, and no green wood. Not so difficult.
 
.............they had more warranty issues with their cat stoves, due to too many customers not following simple directions. No painted wood, no pressure treated, and no green wood. Not so difficult.

Not difficult at all.... Even Secondary burn stoves need dry wood... But a Cat is much more sensitive to clogging.

It would be nice if they still made a 3 cu ft Cat. Jotul is one of the prettiest stoves out there. IMO
 
Very nice looking stove...glad you found one just like the one you have...saves time figuring out how to run a new stove.
 
Nice looking stove. Nothing like two large stoves to keep an old house warm.

What did this one set you back?
 
Nice looking stove. Nothing like two large stoves to keep an old house warm.

What did this one set you back?

Thanks! I paid $1500, which is not a great deal, but I think it's a fair price for the new parts and labor this guy had into it. I had seen $900 - $950 asking price on a half dozen of these stoves in need of serious rehab, and this one was nicely rebuilt and freshly stripped / repainted, with new inner and rear burn plates and fresh gaskets all 'round. The seller rebuilds stoves as a side business, and had about 40 of them stacked up in his shop.

I think an F600 goes for something like $3300, although I don't know what the F12's brought in their day. In the end, it was more about finding a pretty cat stove than what it cost. I'd have paid many times more for a BK, if it looked like a Jotul.
 
1,500 isn't bad at all. Enjoy the stove!
 
I am confused. Today I saw a used F600 cat model. The dealer said that 10+ years ago, the F600 was with a cat and top load. Now it is side load and no cat.

Was he wrong and he was showing me an F12? Was there ever an F600 with a cat?
 
No. The dealer is even more confused. Did you take some pictures?
 
I didn't take pictures but I know it had no door on the side, and the top opened up and it had a cat for sure. Do you think I was looking at an F12 that he was incorrectly telling people it was an F600?

How good is an F12 compared to a new F600 CB?
 
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I paid $1600 even in 12/97, mark down from $2049. My first stove and I went for the looks and size. top loader is awesome and over the years, I have cracked 2 back plates because I cheat and open the ash pan door when starting out (then forget) and green wood I burned 1 year killed the cat. I did buy a Clearskies (?) cat and have had no probs - looks like a Brillo pad. My next cat will be the normal type however. Each year replace the door gaskets, the gasket inside where you close the cat damper is the worst, always comes off mid-season. Otherwise, love this stove.
 
I should also add that the newer non cat stove is the same thing except they welded the top loader lid shut and load from the front only (which obviously you can with the older model). the newer model with the tubes I believe gives less volume for loading. the other replacement items are aired irons which seem to only last a few seasons and loosen up. they are about $27 each and like everything else, all available. I would like to replace the cat chamber sometime but I believe they are about $600. I wonder if I can make my own if I found the materials?
 
Are you saying you would prefer the F600 CB? I am just wondering if I should buy a rebuild F12 that looks like new for $1600 or a new F600 CB for whatever they cost, or a Soapstone Hybrid Progressive for $3100 + a four hour round-trip drive.
 
My Firelight 12 was brand new for $1600 in 12/97 - still looks and runs new to this day! Other posts have stated and I agree, a cat stove takes some getting use to. I looked into the newer model Jotuls to get away from the $250 cat replacement, but in the end kept what I have. When functioning at optimum, they are great burners.
 
I think if you go back thru some of Joful's old threads, you'll learn a whole lot about the F12.
 
I didn't take pictures but I know it had no door on the side, and the top opened up and it had a cat for sure. Do you think I was looking at an F12 that he was incorrectly telling people it was an F600?
If there's a top door and no side door, and it's a cat stove, then it's an F12.

How good is an F12 compared to a new F600 CB?
Better, in every way but one, and that is the fact that you won't find one under 12 years old. There are several here who state the F12 is the best stove they've ever owned, such as this guy:

I vaguely remember a thread where a prominent member of the forum stated that Woodstock missed the opportunity with the Progress to create a long and level burning catalytic stove. I took exception to the comment at the time, but living with these two stoves 24/7 in the same house for the last three seasons (was early to the Progress party), I have become more sympathetic to that comment.

A little bit of perspective may be helpful before I answer your specifically. I have owned and burned that Firelight 12 since 1998 (16 seasons!) and feel like I have a pretty good handle on it. It sits at one end of the house in a large, open area. The Progress sits at the other end of the house, in a similarly sized room. Chimneys are both external, masonry and of similar height, flue size, etc. Both chimneys draw well. I burn red and silver maple and oak with some spruce mixed in for good measure (love the smell, gets the fire going quickly and with a great snap, crackle and pop). But I digress... The stoves are fed identical diets of this wood, which is appropriately seasoned and checked occasionally with a MM to verify. We live in coastal Maine where winter temps tend to be consistently cold, but generally not extreme as air temperatures are moderated by the ocean (we live at the end of a long peninsula). Winds can be fierce and occasionally result in drafts that feel like they'll pull your hair out and as a consequence, both stoves have in-line dampers solely for use on those occasions. These stoves are our primary source of heat from October through March and occasionally into April.

Having given you the general conditions under which each stove is operated, there is no question in my mind that the Firelight is, for us, a far superior stove in every respect. As you are aware, Joful, the Jotul is a top loader and exceedingly easy to load and with a larger useful firebox than the Progress. You can really load that Jotul to the top. I'm easily getting two to three hour longer burn times (useful heat output) than with the Progress at my "normal" overnight settings on the stoves and that is almost always with soft maple in the mix. With 100% oak, the difference in burn times is even more pronounced, but I don't need to run them that way so it's a rarity that I do (extreme cold conditions). Clearly, some of that extra burn time is firebox capacity. But the bigger and more significant difference is controlability of heat output. The Progress has a very strong early peak in heat output and then tapers from there. I think that it fully lives up to it's billing as a "hybrid" in that regard. The peak is a little less pronounced than with a 2ndary burn stove (owned several of them), but nowhere near the much more level heat output of any cat stove I've run. The practical result of this is that the house temperatures vary more with the Progress and it requires more tending to try to level out the heat output. BTW: I am now (once again) using a ceramic cat from Condar in the Jotul and am very pleased with its performance. Anecdotally, I do feel like the Jotul is more efficient at converting potential btus into actual btus - just seem to get more heat out of it... the dogs would agree with that based on which stove they prefer to lay next to.

In addition, there is no (ridiculous) screen to clean in the Jotul. The Progress requires a full stove shut down for me every 3-4 weeks as that screen becomes sufficiently plugged to create problematic draft issues. Plus, the process for removal and replacement of that screen is real irritant, especially compared to the Jotul. I remove the plate covering the cat in the Jotul once at the end of the burning season, pull the cat out and there's almost never any ash in it! Perhaps I find the Woodstock so irritating just because I have the Jotul at the other end of the house laughing at me while I wrestle with putting the screen back in (yes, I have updated the screen twice now and have the very latest screen and assembly). This is a major drawback for this 24/7 3 season burner who has better things to do.

Both stoves have excellent ash drawers which have good capacity and easy operation (internal grate systems). Not a part has failed in 16 years of burning the Jotul. I have replaced the top loading gasket 3 times and the cat 3 times. That's it. I replaced the top loading lid gasket the right way (not on the lid), too ;-) I have the green porcelain finish and it's as flawless as the day I bought the stove. The Woodstock hasn't had any meaningful problems but has been subject to numerous parts updates or recalls (top stones, cat screen, cat). Woodstock has delivered excellent customer service on numerous occasions where I've needed it. Jotul? I don't have a clue, I've never needed any customer service.

Lest you think that I'm (manufacturer or material) biased, I am now running a Woodstock Keystone in our cottage and I think it's every bit the stove that the Jotul is, albeit in a much smaller package. I'm getting 9 hour burns on the "1" setting with red maple with outstanding heat level controllability. Gotta love those cats! We're building a new house in the area and I already have that mahogany porcelain Ashford ready to go, but I'll miss the Jotul's ash drawer. If Jotul still made the 12, I'd have bought that instead of the Ashford...

I paid $1600 even in 12/97, mark down from $2049. My first stove and I went for the looks and size. top loader is awesome and over the years, I have cracked 2 back plates because I cheat and open the ash pan door when starting out (then forget) and green wood I burned 1 year killed the cat. I did buy a Clearskies (?) cat and have had no probs - looks like a Brillo pad. My next cat will be the normal type however. Each year replace the door gaskets, the gasket inside where you close the cat damper is the worst, always comes off mid-season. Otherwise, love this stove.
I have never lost a damper gasket, running two F12's. I've only lost one door gasket, which the PO installed using the wrong cement (clear cement on grapho glass gasket... duh). If you're using the proper 1/4" / 6mm BRAIDED fiberglass (not woven, not grapho glass) gaskets with the proper gasket cement, there's no reason they should EVER fall off. I've caught the top load door gasket with a split (maybe once a year), and accidentally torn it loose (entirely my fault)... but I just scrape away the dry cement on the next cycle, apply some new cement in the groove, and press the gasket back into place. I can't even imagine how a damper door gasket could fail, as it's buried back in the stove, where I'm not likely to bump it.

I should also add that the newer non cat stove is the same thing except they welded the top loader lid shut and load from the front only (which obviously you can with the older model). the newer model with the tubes I believe gives less volume for loading. the other replacement items are aired irons which seem to only last a few seasons and loosen up. they are about $27 each and like everything else, all available. I would like to replace the cat chamber sometime but I believe they are about $600. I wonder if I can make my own if I found the materials?
Andirons?!? What the hell are you doing to this stove, man? ;lol Both my Firelights (one from 1993, the other 1996'ish) have all the original iron, minus the rear burn plate on the 1993 model (due to the previous owner letting the ash drawer fill up so much it could not be properly latched). The only weak point on this stove is the cat chamber, but since you're only in there once per year (summer clean-out), likelihood of damage is very low. It's hidden behind cast iron when the stove is in operation.

My Firelight 12 was brand new for $1600 in 12/97 - still looks and runs new to this day! Other posts have stated and I agree, a cat stove takes some getting use to. I looked into the newer model Jotuls to get away from the $250 cat replacement, but in the end kept what I have. When functioning at optimum, they are great burners.
Glad you kept your Firelight, but look at Condar for cheaper replacements, next time around. Just avoid the Steelcat, known to not play nice with the F12. Their standard ceramic cat is great in this stove.
 
Are you saying you would prefer the F600 CB? I am just wondering if I should buy a rebuild F12 that looks like new for $1600 or a new F600 CB for whatever they cost, or a Soapstone Hybrid Progressive for $3100 + a four hour round-trip drive.

There was a report a short while back from an owner in Maine that had a large house with a 28? yr old Jotul F12 on one end and a new PH on the other. They preferred the F12 as a lower maintenance, easier to run stove.
 
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