How do you know if you need an OAK?

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briansol

briansol

Minister of Fire
Jan 18, 2009
1,916
central ct
I don't have an OAK on my stove currently. I'm wondering if i'll get better results if i add one.

Since the temps dropped, i've been noticing the flame is a LITTLE lazy. Nothing serious, but it's not as tight as it used to be. My damper is wide open. I pushed it back a few cms, but this resulted in lessor heat out put and more pellet use, plus a non-complete burn. So, it seems like i need to go the other way and add more air.

My house isn't that tight. While it's fairly new construction (1997), and has double pane thermal windows, I can still feel cold air near them. I also have limited curtains in the downstairs so there is little insulation on the glass. (on my to do list, but everything is just so cheesey)

I run up a story and a half on a 4" pipe (reduced to 3" at the stove outlet) inside my house's chimney.
 
Im an OAK advocate. Its not if your stove burns right. Or if your house isnt tight enough to need one. Its about heating your home.

The OAK lets you heat your home easier. Instead of using the warm air that cost you BTU's already.

It can only help the efficiency of the stove. May or may not improve your burn. If its getting lazy, when was your last full cleaning? Liner, blowers, ash traps, etc??
 
Stove is pretty clean. i did the pipe a few weeks ago. the flue passages are due for a clean out though, but i usually don't have much build up in there when i do clean it out so it's unlikely the issue.

I'm finding it hard to keep my place in the upper 60s. I'm burning a lot of pellets this year for some reason (and i burned the same brand last year). And its not even been very cold yet. My flame gets VERY tall on higher settings. They basically go all the way to the top on setting 3 / 5. 4 and 5 just go wider and also go all the way to the top of the box. It makes the scrape rod and the top of the stove VERY hot to the touch.
 
briansol said:
Stove is pretty clean. i did the pipe a few weeks ago. the flue passages are due for a clean out though, but i usually don't have much build up in there when i do clean it out so it's unlikely the issue.

I'm finding it hard to keep my place in the upper 60s. I'm burning a lot of pellets this year for some reason (and i burned the same brand last year). And its not even been very cold yet. My flame gets VERY tall on higher settings. They basically go all the way to the top on setting 3 / 5. 4 and 5 just go wider and also go all the way to the top of the box. It makes the scrape rod and the top of the stove VERY hot to the touch.
Click to expand...

About the burn issue your termination cap may be crudded up.
 
I was on the roof a few weeks ago to do my gutters and the cap looked fine.
 
DexterDay said:
Im an OAK advocate. Its not if your stove burns right. Or if your house isnt tight enough to need one. Its about heating your home.

The OAK lets you heat your home easier. Instead of using the warm air that cost you BTU's already.

It can only help the efficiency of the stove. May or may not improve your burn. If its getting lazy, when was your last full cleaning? Liner, blowers, ash traps, etc??
Click to expand...

I totally agree unless you are trying to heat an open barn.
The 2 things that you want to take into account:
Once you instead a proper OAK, you it will eliminate a third of contributing burn problems permanently.
You won't be sucking out side cold air to replace the hot air (that you just paid for) right up your chimney. LOL

It's also a good thing to insulate the pipe after 2.5' from the stove if it is run in a heated area.
 
Hi central CT, for inserts (and all stoves) OAK is a nicety, but not always absolutely needed. Is this stove new?? If not, is it behaving differently from past years?? I know the Winslow very well (I work at a central CT dealership), we have seen a lot of pellet issues this year- you are kinda describing the classic poor pellet syndrome. Is the glass getting dirtier than normal- big chunky dark fluffy fly-ash instead of light colored fine particles of ash?? Prob nothing wrong with stove, one thing tho, clean traps out on sides (behind door panels) remove motors and clean impellers for best performance. Good luck, great stove.

Stovelark
Enviro EF3 pellet FS
Enviro Empress Ins
Enviro Kodiak 1700 FS Wood
 
I've had the stove 4 years now. It's my first pellet stove, so I really don't have anything to compare it to. Glass is the same as most other pellets i've burned including top shelf like oakies cubex energex american, etc. I never burn any big box stuff. I get about 3 days of clear, and then it slowly starts to darken up. It's mostly ash with some soot coating on the glass directly.


How exactly does the OAK hook up? the manual just sort of shows the pipe dumping into the area near the combustion blower.


post #30 here has me interested in trying to find a diagnostic tool to borrow.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/9838/P22/#349192
 
You need an OAK for the following:

1. If the installation manual says that it is mandatory
2. If you live in a mobile home or are installing a unit into a closed area less than 500 sqft
3. If your flame is weak or goes out but when you open a window close to the stove the fire is restored
4. If your home has a second floor and the house was built in the past 15 years

Those are my guidelines. It never really hurts to have one, only helps, unless the unit is installed on the leeward side of a home.
 
smwilliamson said:
You need an OAK for the following:

1. If the installation manual says that it is mandatory
2. If you live in a mobile home or are installing a unit into a closed area less than 500 sqft
3. If your flame is weak or goes out but when you open a window close to the stove the fire is restored
4. If your home has a second floor and the house was built in the past 15 years

Those are my guidelines. It never really hurts to have one, only helps, unless the unit is installed on the leeward side of a home.
Click to expand...

What is the rationale behind #4?
 
Cold air is heavier than hot air. If hot air rises to the second floor and you have an air tight home or relatively air tight home, the air up stairs becomes stale. The stove will never fight natural convection and pull down hot air, since you have no egress upstairs or open windows in the winter, you create a sick house. In most homes that rely on the stove for a majority of the heat, the air handler of the furnace may never do its job of circulating the air cause it never comes on.
 
smwilliamson said:
You need an OAK for the following:

1. If the installation manual says that it is mandatory

4. If your home has a second floor and the house was built in the past 15 years
Click to expand...

This is the first time I have heard this reason. I am heating two floors with an M55 insert with NO OAK. It is heating the house just fine but I am planning on installing an oak within the next month. I'm going to make so that I can cap it off inside the fire place just in case it has a negative effect on heating the house. Just need to find the time to get it installed.
 
BradH70 said:
smwilliamson said:
You need an OAK for the following:

1. If the installation manual says that it is mandatory

4. If your home has a second floor and the house was built in the past 15 years
Click to expand...

This is the first time I have heard this reason. I am heating two floors with an M55 insert with NO OAK. It is heating the house just fine but I am planning on installing an oak within the next month. I'm going to make so that I can cap it off inside the fire place just in case it has a negative effect on heating the house. Just need to find the time to get it installed.
Click to expand...

Scott is making an oblique reference to what is known as the chimney effect.
 
SmokeyTheBear said:
BradH70 said:
smwilliamson said:
You need an OAK for the following:

1. If the installation manual says that it is mandatory

4. If your home has a second floor and the house was built in the past 15 years
Click to expand...

This is the first time I have heard this reason. I am heating two floors with an M55 insert with NO OAK. It is heating the house just fine but I am planning on installing an oak within the next month. I'm going to make so that I can cap it off inside the fire place just in case it has a negative effect on heating the house. Just need to find the time to get it installed.
Click to expand...

Scott is making an oblique reference to what is known as the chimney effect.
Click to expand...

A chimney effect between the first and second floor? I do feel a large draft of cold air coming low down the steps and hot air rising high above the steps. It is hard to tell if this is natural convection or if it is increased due to not having an OAK. I will not know soon enough though, it is probably going to be a few weeks before I get the OAK installed.
 
BradH70 said:
SmokeyTheBear said:
BradH70 said:
smwilliamson said:
You need an OAK for the following:

1. If the installation manual says that it is mandatory

4. If your home has a second floor and the house was built in the past 15 years
Click to expand...

This is the first time I have heard this reason. I am heating two floors with an M55 insert with NO OAK. It is heating the house just fine but I am planning on installing an oak within the next month. I'm going to make so that I can cap it off inside the fire place just in case it has a negative effect on heating the house. Just need to find the time to get it installed.
Click to expand...

Scott is making an oblique reference to what is known as the chimney effect.
Click to expand...

A chimney effect between the first and second floor? I do feel a large draft of cold air coming low down the steps and hot air rising high above the steps. It is hard to tell if this is natural convection or if it is increased due to not having an OAK. I will not know soon enough though, it is probably going to be a few weeks before I get the OAK installed.
Click to expand...

You will most likely still notice this exchange, however; the amount of oxygen (breathable air) in the house will not be consumed by the combustion air needed for the stove.
 
smwilliamson said:
.... I'm going to make so that I can cap it off inside the fire place just in case it has a negative effect on heating the house. Just need to find the time to get it installed.
Click to expand...
It shouldn't have a negative effect on heating unless the outside temp is high than the output temp of the stove or it is restricted. lol
 
superchips said:
smwilliamson said:
.... I'm going to make so that I can cap it off inside the fire place just in case it has a negative effect on heating the house. Just need to find the time to get it installed.
Click to expand...
It shouldn't have a negative effect on heating unless the outside temp is high than the output temp of the stove or it is restricted. lol
Click to expand...
???????
 
BradH70, I will be doing the OAK for my M55 in the next fewe weeks as well! A straight shot, I think, through the back of the fire place. Not sure how thick the chimney wall is but the total length should be under 2 ' i think. Chat with you later...Bill
 
"How do I know if I need an outside air kit?"

The simplest way to know is to find out if you have a pellet stove. If you do, then chances are, you'll need an OAK. I woldn't consider running a pellet stove without one. It's a home run!
 
Without trying to be a smarta%% "If you have to ask you probably need it" Check out your old heating system, if it was medium efficiency it will a weighted damper on the vent pipe. If your still using your old furnace for a back-up you could have problems. Most pellet stoves are designed as a closed system they require it for safety reasons. I have no idea why the people selling stoves don't put it in, or how the stove gets permit approval without it (if required by manufacturer).

The last time I bought a car, the dealer asked me if I wanted rustproofing. I asked if it voided the GM warranty, His answer was yes. As we are always being told, buyer beware.
 
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