Astoria Bay Insert Issues

earl764 · Dec 22, 2011

Hello,

Long time reader/first time poster.

I have an Astoria Bay Insert which is about 2 months old. It's been working fine up until about 2 weeks ago.

Issue:

Unit will run fine on auto or manual for awhile, then it seems the auger jams and can't supply pellets in time to keep the fire up. When it finally does supply pellets the fire is too far gone. The pellets pile up in the burn pot until the chute is backed up and the unit goes into error mode.

Normally we would find it like this the next morning. Since I've had some time off I've taken the time to perform a number of tests and actually sit in front of the stove for hours to watch the actual issue unfold.

In my searches I saw someone mention they have the service manual for avalon stoves. I would be interested in that if it's current enough to apply to my model.

I clean the unit religiously. I've performed all of the air leak tests.

Initially i had been burning home depot/lowes pellets without issue. Then I received a shipment of New England. The problems started about 10 or so bags into using the delivery.

I prefer to run the unit at it's top heat output on a thermostat. I have played with auto/manual mode and with various heating levels/baffle settings. Same result every time.

When I clean the unit I do vacuum out the hopper and run the auger manually to get any little bits of stuff. Should I try lubing the auger w/ graphite spray?

Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks.

SmokeyTheBear · Dec 22, 2011

earl764 said:
Hello,

Long time reader/first time poster.

I have an Astoria Bay Insert which is about 2 months old. It's been working fine up until about 2 weeks ago.

Issue:

Unit will run fine on auto or manual for awhile, then it seems the auger jams and can't supply pellets in time to keep the fire up. When it finally does supply pellets the fire is too far gone. The pellets pile up in the burn pot until the chute is backed up and the unit goes into error mode.

Normally we would find it like this the next morning. Since I've had some time off I've taken the time to perform a number of tests and actually sit in front of the stove for hours to watch the actual issue unfold.

In my searches I saw someone mention they have the service manual for avalon stoves. I would be interested in that if it's current enough to apply to my model.

I clean the unit religiously. I've performed all of the air leak tests.

Initially i had been burning home depot/lowes pellets without issue. Then I received a shipment of New England. The problems started about 10 or so bags into using the delivery.

I prefer to run the unit at it's top heat output on a thermostat. I have played with auto/manual mode and with various heating levels/baffle settings. Same result every time.

When I clean the unit I do vacuum out the hopper and run the auger manually to get any little bits of stuff. Should I try lubing the auger w/ graphite spray?

Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks.

How many bags of pellets have you run through the stove since the last really good cleaning?

When you clean the stove do you remove the burn pot liner/the pot itself and clean the holes or slots the air goes through?

In short tell us exactly how you clean your stove.

imacman will likely have a bit to say on the matter, his prior stove was the freestanding version of yours.

earl764 · Dec 22, 2011

Smokey,

I perform a full cleaning weekly. That seems to be 4-8 bags a week at this point.

I remove the burn pot and clean it out until all holes are clean.

I remove the baffles and clean those and any ash.

I clean the heat exchanger tubes. I remove the ash box, and the two small doors on either side of it and clean that.

I remove the 'brick' fireback and clean that/behind there as well.

I have an ashvac I use to do all of these. I also clean the exhaust duct every few weeks. that never seems to have much build-up...

And of course I empty the ash tray/glass. Glass is cleaned with an 'approved' cleaner.

In my original post i believe I used the term baffle incorrectly. I meant to refer to the air adjuster for the unit, which I believe avalon/travis refers to as the restrictor.

Thanks.

SmokeyTheBear · Dec 22, 2011

Air restrictor aka damper. Yup too many names for the same thingy.

Have you checked for over length pellets and a pellet or part of one lodged at the end of the auger flight, across the drop tube, jammed under the auger, a large amount of fines in the auger flight, or bridging at the auger/hooper area.

ETA: Is the ash pan door closed and latched and any gasket there good. Also some latching systems have been known to work loose.

earl764 · Dec 22, 2011

Smokey,

I have checked for those. I run the auger manually for awhile when I clean the unit. Previously I always ran auto and when I cleaned I put it to manual and ran the auger via a push button.

I ran it for what I thought was a decent time, but just did it again and held it longer. the pellets just kept coming.

Near the bottom of the hopper you have part of the exposed auger, and then part of it is covered via a metal tube.

The tube/cover is secured via a few bolts, so it appears to be a normally serviceable part. There is however some reddish sealant near the top of the tube. Is this a special fire-rated sealant? I see it around various points of the unit.

I'm thinking it might be good to open it up and see if there is anything stuck up there, but I'll want to properly re-seal it.

As for the ash pan, the seal is good there.

Thanks.

imacman · Dec 22, 2011

Does your Astoria have the dreaded "drop tube flapper" still installed in it? If so, you need to remove it....Travis Ind. issued a service report to all dealers about 4 years ago to remove the flapper from any units they had left in stock before delivering to the customer.

Was this a brand new stove, or did you buy it used?

earl764 · Dec 22, 2011

Imacmac,

The unit was new. I also checked and it does not have a flapper in the tube. Shining a flashlight up the tube I see the shaft of the auger and it looks clear.

Thanks.

SmokeyTheBear · Dec 22, 2011

That sealant is red RTV rated at 500 Â°F, it is easy to find at a lot of stores that sell stoves.

If there is nothing in the auger flight then I'd start looking for an air leak or something plugged in the venting. Can you post pictures of where the vent attaches to the stove. If there is a loop there that goes down hill it will trap a mell of hess of ash and if there was any sideways rain that the termination cap didn't exclude more than a bit of water.

earl764 · Dec 23, 2011

Spending some more time with the unit, I'm thinking the problem may be the pellets. They are not a uniform size. Some are very small, some are an inch long.

I'll hear the auger grinding and slowing down and finally turning. Sometimes it's enough of a time gap for the fire to go down low enough for it to not recover when the pellets start coming back down.

I'm wondering if I should spray some graphite into the auger while it's empty to help lube things up? These pellets seem to produce a lot of dust. Is this what folks call 'fines'?

As for the pipe, I recall it goes out and up from the unit. No down then up loops.

earl764 · Dec 23, 2011

On second thought I think I'm going to open up the unit. I'll have to buy the sealant you mentioned, but the only way to be sure there isn't anything jammed is to open it up.

I found the travis service manual online, so I'll be following that.

checkthisout · Dec 23, 2011

I doubt there is anything wrong with the stove.

Are you running it on low when this happens or Hi/Low or whatever? If so I bet it's the pellets just like you said. Probably just not getting uniform enough dosing to keep it lit on low.

earl764 · Dec 23, 2011

I've tried various settings, same effect on all.

To get the pellets replaced the dealer wants to come out and see the stove. The earliest appt i could get is first week of January. I figure i don't have much to lose in opening up the auger cover just to see what's there.

earl764 · Dec 23, 2011

So no smoking gun under the auger cover.

When I reapply the cover and use the sealant, how long should I wait before I can use the stove?

The product says it cures tack free in minutes and takes 24 hours to fully cure. Should I wait a full 24 hours? I have backup heat (oil).

I went to lowes and bought some pellets. They had green supreme. The pellets look a lot better than what I have in my garage. I'm going to test w/ these and if I don't have a problem I'm going to make the dealer take them back/do an exchange.

I may also experiment w/ sifting some of the ones in my garage, but I have 2.5 tons of them. Not sure if it's worth the hassle.

SmokeyTheBear · Dec 24, 2011

earl764 said:
So no smoking gun under the auger cover.

When I reapply the cover and use the sealant, how long should I wait before I can use the stove?

The product says it cures tack free in minutes and takes 24 hours to fully cure. Should I wait a full 24 hours? I have backup heat (oil).

I went to lowes and bought some pellets. They had green supreme. The pellets look a lot better than what I have in my garage. I'm going to test w/ these and if I don't have a problem I'm going to make the dealer take them back/do an exchange.

I may also experiment w/ sifting some of the ones in my garage, but I have 2.5 tons of them. Not sure if it's worth the hassle.

That area isn't really subject to a lot of heat so you likely are good to go.

Don2222 · Dec 24, 2011

Hello

I have an Avalon Astoria and I have found if there is any moisture in there for any reason it will cause the pellets to swell and an cause the auger jam.

For example the best way to cause an Auger Jam is to take the Iron Fire Brick out and wash and clean it and put it back in when it is damp. That will do it every time! Hope this sheds some light.

GLopi · Jan 4, 2012

Hello folks, I'm new here, but just caught this post.
I am in my 40's, and I have been cutting/burning wood for 20 years., I bought a Lopi-Avalon Yankee Bay pellet insert, because
I was done burning wood., I have asked a dozen people how often they have to clean their pellet inserts. Most say every week or so.
My stove was proffesionaly installed. I clean my stove better than a service person would. It gets completely disassembled, vacuumed
re-assembled..I get about 12 hours out of it, before the ash "tray" is full, not much ever makes it to the ash "pan", because of the poor design of the stove. After 2 bags, the stove is completely covered in ash, pans are full, after only 2 bags worth.
So, anyone that gets 4-5 days between cleanings, what "magic" process are you using?
I have used every single brand of pellet out there, and never a Big-Box store brand of pellet.
My air / fuel settings are perfect, as I use a carbon smoke meter to measure it. ( just like your furnace guy does)
When I bought this stove, I was told I would only have to clean it "once a week"...that's funny.
If anyone would like to purchase a stove, that is on;y two years old, just inquire.

imacman · Jan 4, 2012

GLopi said:
Hello folks, I'm new here, but just caught this post.
I am in my 40's, and I have been cutting/burning wood for 20 years., I bought a Lopi-Avalon Yankee Bay pellet insert, because
I was done burning wood., I have asked a dozen people how often they have to clean their pellet inserts. Most say every week or so.
My stove was proffesionaly installed. I clean my stove better than a service person would. It gets completely disassembled, vacuumed
re-assembled..I get about 12 hours out of it, before the ash "tray" is full, not much ever makes it to the ash "pan", because of the poor design of the stove. After 2 bags, the stove is completely covered in ash, pans are full, after only 2 bags worth.
So, anyone that gets 4-5 days between cleanings, what "magic" process are you using?
I have used every single brand of pellet out there, and never a Big-Box store brand of pellet.
My air / fuel settings are perfect, as I use a carbon smoke meter to measure it. ( just like your furnace guy does)
When I bought this stove, I was told I would only have to clean it "once a week"...that's funny.
If anyone would like to purchase a stove, that is on;y two years old, just inquire.

You must be doing something wrong. This is my Avalon Astoria (same stove as the Yankee) after MANY, MANY bags of pellets. Yes, the stove looks terrible, but it was still burning well:

earl764 · Jan 4, 2012

While I've had my share of issues, that is not one of them.

Is the ash fine? What color is it? It sounds like you're getting an incomplete burn.

I can go a week between cleanings.

Imacman, I'm amazed your stove works like that. I've never had it get like that.

I have a tech coming out in a couple days to look at mine. I still haven't been able to run the unit on high and have it work properly. I always end up finding it filled with pellets and a fault light on. Using hardwood pellets at the moment. Medium works fine. I've tried all restrictor sizes from 0-5, going in 1/4 changes. Maybe the tech can work some magic.

I did come across a bag of 80% hard 20% soft wood. The stove loved that and burned on high at 1 without issue.

checkthisout · Jan 4, 2012

earl764 said:
While I've had my share of issues, that is not one of them.

Is the ash fine? What color is it? It sounds like you're getting an incomplete burn.

I can go a week between cleanings.

Imacman, I'm amazed your stove works like that. I've never had it get like that.

I have a tech coming out in a couple days to look at mine. I still haven't been able to run the unit on high and have it work properly. I always end up finding it filled with pellets and a fault light on. Using hardwood pellets at the moment. Medium works fine. I've tried all restrictor sizes from 0-5, going in 1/4 changes. Maybe the tech can work some magic.

I did come across a bag of 80% hard 20% soft wood. The stove loved that and burned on high at 1 without issue.

What fault code are you getting??

earl764 · Jan 5, 2012

I'm getting #4.

I have a new theory based on all of my testing. I think my restrictor may have come loose or off some sort of tracking.

When you completely close the restrictor you should have zero air flow, correct?

Not here. When I complete close it I get a fire so monstrous the unit shuts itself down from overheating within a half hour.

earl764 · Jan 10, 2012

Well, the tech came out and found that the vacuum nipple was clogged. That's the one thing I kept thinking about, but didn't check.

He said this was due to running the unit on high. When the unit was installed I was told to run the unit on high as that's the most efficient.

He also said that because my exhaust is so close to the max(30' max, I'm at 25', vertical) The max I should run the unit is on medium/4.

I wish I had been told this earlier. Kind of a bummer.

He said if I had a free standing model vented out the back I could run high no issues. I've kept the unit on manual mode at 4 since then, no issues.

After I go through my remaining 1.5 tons of new england I'll look into other brands, maybe find some that burn hotter to offset the 'medium/max' issue.

SmokeyTheBear · Jan 10, 2012

earl764 said:
Well, the tech came out and found that the vacuum nipple was clogged. That's the one thing I kept thinking about, but didn't check.

He said this was due to running the unit on high. When the unit was installed I was told to run the unit on high as that's the most efficient.

He also said that because my exhaust is so close to the max(30' max, I'm at 25', vertical) The max I should run the unit is on medium/4.

I wish I had been told this earlier. Kind of a bummer.

He said if I had a free standing model vented out the back I could run high no issues. I've kept the unit on manual mode at 4 since then, no issues.

After I go through my remaining 1.5 tons of new england I'll look into other brands, maybe find some that burn hotter to offset the 'medium/max' issue.

Hold on one minute, the reason you can't run it on high is because the vent is 5' from the maximum 30'. Are you running 3" pipe?

earl764 · Jan 10, 2012

4" pipe.

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