Specific Newbie Questions - air control, burn techniques and others

MTMike · Dec 24, 2011

I've been reading this site for a while. What a wealth of information! I have been searching for some specific information for the better part of the day and have found bits and pieces of what I am looking for but not specifically or entirely.

So, I'll describe my situation and outline my questions and see if y'all can help

I apologize in advance for the novel....

I have access to as much free wood that I am willing to cut and haul. The problem is most of it is Cottonwood or Poplar. I know it's not a desired wood but I paid nothing for it except for a couple gallons of gas in the chainsaw and my buddy's splitter. I have 3 cords of pretty well dry barkless Poplar cut,split and stacked, and 1 cord of Ash that is only about 6-month seasoned which I'm saving until next year. I don't have easy access to the better mountain softwoods such as fir and larch(since I'm in the plains of eastern MT), so I'm using what I have easiest free access to.

I am on a tight budget and wanted wood heat for 2 reasons: I love the ambiance and warmth of wood heat, and for the opportunity to offset the cost of propane for my furnace by burning free firewood. I grew up burning wood and loved it The 70's-era masonry fireplace in this house was negatively efficient, and after several attempts to get some heat out of it by using some exhaust tubing and a squirrel cage blower I had in the garage last year, I conceded defeat and bought an EPA insert this year.

The insert I purchased is an inexpensive Century unit from Ace Hardware:
http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3706810 It's nothing fancy, but we're going for a budget friendly setup. I also bought a 15' Flex King stainless liner and insulation kit from a place online and installed it all myself after many evenings of reading on here and watching YouTube videos.

I did the 3 break-in burns as prescribed in the owners manual: 2 at 250* â€œas indicated by an insert-top thermometerâ€, and 1 at just at tick under 450* (couldn't seem to get it to go over about 430).

Today is the first day where I have been able to burn all day, and have had some questions come up as I'm doing so.

1)Where should the insert-top thermometer be placed? The insert sticks out from the faceplate about 6â€ and I have a magnetic thermometer on the top of the stuck-out area, offset to the left a little. Is this a good position for it?
2)How do I get a hotter burn? I suspect because I'm burning Poplar and it's a fast-burning, low-output species of wood, but is there anything else I may be doing wrong? The technique I'm using is: some kindling with a piece of newspaper to get it started, air wide open, door cracked about an inch for about 3-5 mins while the fire gets good and hot. Then add small split and keep door open for another 3-5 mins, then close door, leaving air wide open. Once that split gets going good, I add another split, and leave the air wide open for another 15-20, add a 3rd split, air wide open for another 5. By this time the fire is HOT and the thermo reads ~400. From there, I start dialing the air back gradually to about Â¼ to 1/8 open. I'm getting plenty of heat into the house with the thermometer reading between 300 and 400, but at the same time I don't want creosote buildup either. Accodring to the thermometer, anything above 250 is out of the â€œdanger: creosoteâ€ zone. The inside of the firebox seems very hot: the baffle tubes are glowing orange and the flames around the baffle are burning bright blue, indicating good secondary combustion.
3)What is the best air control method throughout the entire burn from begining to end? I have found that wide open until the thermometer reads 400ish (where it usually hovers and won't climb above) Then I dial it back to about Â¼ to 1/8 open. And let it burn slow and hot refueling as necessary. If I close it completely it seems to want to suffocate the fire and the temp starts to drop.
4)When it gets too hot in the house and it's time to shut 'er* down what's the best method to do so.... but at the same time limiting smoldering/creosote? The few times I've done it I just close the air all the way and scatter the coals.
5)What about blower operation? This stove's blower is 100% manual. Obviously I wait for the stove to build some heat to turn it on, but when I'm shutting it down, should I turn the blower off or leave it on? What about on overnight burns? Will the blower affect flue temps and/or creosote buildup?

I'm loving this insert, and for less than $1500 for the whole setup and heating my home with free wood, I couldn't be happier. I know it's not the fanciest, biggest or most high-tech insert, but for the price, I simply can't complain.

Thanks for any and all input.

HotCoals · Dec 24, 2011

That's a lot of questions at once.

Sounds like you're on track.
I'm not up on inserts but there are people that are.
I don't think it would hurt to leave your blower on we you call it a night...I'll stick my neck out that far..lol.

I will say it seems like it's taking a longer time then I would think for you to get her up to temp..could b the wood though like you say.
Try putting more in and try the top to bottom method of starting it from cold.

MTMike · Dec 24, 2011

Sorry about there being so many questions at once. I figured it would be eaiser to just outline what I had and what I was doing in one post so all pertinent information was available with the questions.

Thanks for the info about the blower. That's what I did last night, figuring the surface temp of the stove being cooler due to the blower running wouldn't affect the burn temps.

gyrfalcon · Dec 24, 2011

MTMike said:
Sorry about there being so many questions at once. I figured it would be eaiser to just outline what I had and what I was doing in one post so all pertinent information was available with the questions.

Thanks for the info about the blower. That's what I did last night, figuring the surface temp of the stove being cooler due to the blower running wouldn't affect the burn temps.

Hi, and welcome. I'm the wood species freak around here, and I don't think you're ever going to get anything close to max heat no matter what you do with poplar. Ash is certainly better, but it ain't exactly a high-BTU wood.

Take a look at this chart and see the difference. http://chimneysweeponline.com/howood.htm

With a large enough firebox (mine is teeny-tiny) you can get good heat with anything from white ash or above, I think. But poplar barely even gets hot enough to light off a load of rock maple, in my experience. Don't know what's available around your area or what kind of space you have to set up stacks to dry it, but if I were you, I'd start looking early spring for better stuff than poplar to set out in sun and wind. If you split it fairly far down and stack it in single rows in a lot of sun and wind, almost anything other than oak should be burnable by next winter. (2 years, if you can get that far ahead, is better, but 1 is doable under the right conditions).

Adabiviak · Dec 24, 2011

MTMike said:
1)Where should the insert-top thermometer be placed? The insert sticks out from the faceplate about 6â€ and I have a magnetic thermometer on the top of the stuck-out area, offset to the left a little. Is this a good position for it?

...can't help you here. I haven't begun using a thermometer myself.

MTMike said:
2)How do I get a hotter burn? I suspect because I'm burning Poplar and it's a fast-burning, low-output species of wood, but is there anything else I may be doing wrong? The technique I'm using is: some kindling with a piece of newspaper to get it started, air wide open, door cracked about an inch for about 3-5 mins while the fire gets good and hot. Then add small split and keep door open for another 3-5 mins, then close door, leaving air wide open. Once that split gets going good, I add another split, and leave the air wide open for another 15-20, add a 3rd split, air wide open for another 5. By this time the fire is HOT and the thermo reads ~400. From there, I start dialing the air back gradually to about Â¼ to 1/8 open. I'm getting plenty of heat into the house with the thermometer reading between 300 and 400, but at the same time I don't want creosote buildup either. Accodring to the thermometer, anything above 250 is out of the â€œdanger: creosoteâ€ zone. The inside of the firebox seems very hot: the baffle tubes are glowing orange and the flames around the baffle are burning bright blue, indicating good secondary combustion.

That sounds like you're temperatures are fine. The poplar and aspen around here burn hot enough, but they're exhausted quick (which is why they're usually saved for the 'shoulder season', since you don't have to commit to extended burn times using that wood). Also, I give the local poplar two years to season. It's usually so wet that it literally splashes when I split it green, and the bark doesn't separate easily from the wood. You may have a different variety though.

MTMike said:
3)What is the best air control method throughout the entire burn from begining to end? I have found that wide open until the thermometer reads 400ish (where it usually hovers and won't climb above) Then I dial it back to about Â¼ to 1/8 open. And let it burn slow and hot refueling as necessary. If I close it completely it seems to want to suffocate the fire and the temp starts to drop.

That's a dance you'll learn with practice. One of the guidelines I use is dialing back the air to one of two points: one, if there's smoke visible in the chamber that's not igniting (not enough air, generally early in the burn) and two, if there's not enough air to keep the wood burning (usually if I misread the fire and I backed it off too quickly). When the wood is outgassing like a champ and you back it off all the way, you'll probably see the fireplace secondaries all light up real nice, but if you pulled that trigger too early, a few minutes later, the flames will be gone. If the flames aren't gone when you do this, you should be good to let that thing simmer for several hours until you get to coals.

MTMike said:
4)When it gets too hot in the house and it's time to shut 'er* down what's the best method to do so.... but at the same time limiting smoldering/creosote? The few times I've done it I just close the air all the way and scatter the coals.

I open the outside door or a window for a heat purge. There's an art to maintaining room temperature while also maintaining good stove temps (and frankly I'm still perfecting this myself), but if your stove is at operating temperature and you have the air shut down, creosote buildup shouldn't be a problem. Besides backing off the air, there's not much you can do other than an ugly intervention (ice or a fire extinguisher in the chamber)?

MTMike said:
5)What about blower operation? This stove's blower is 100% manual. Obviously I wait for the stove to build some heat to turn it on, but when I'm shutting it down, should I turn the blower off or leave it on? What about on overnight burns? Will the blower affect flue temps and/or creosote buildup?

I only use the blower when I come home to an icy house, and I'm going to run the stove very hot to burn the chill off, and I need that heat moving around. I don't run it like this overnight though... once the chill is gone, and I'm in 'maintenance mode', the blower comes off. I find that outside of the context of the peak of one's fire (especially on the tail end of a burn through the night), that the blower will rob the firebox of heat, and I may wind up with more coals than I'd like. By the time your wood has finished outgassing, and the hot wood coals are all that's left, that's pretty clean combustion and creosote shouldn't be a problem.

firecracker_77 · Dec 24, 2011

Adabiviak said:
MTMike said:

1)Where should the insert-top thermometer be placed? The insert sticks out from the faceplate about 6â€ and I have a magnetic thermometer on the top of the stuck-out area, offset to the left a little. Is this a good position for it?

Click to expand...

...can't help you here. I haven't begun using a thermometer myself.

MTMike said:

2)How do I get a hotter burn? I suspect because I'm burning Poplar and it's a fast-burning, low-output species of wood, but is there anything else I may be doing wrong? The technique I'm using is: some kindling with a piece of newspaper to get it started, air wide open, door cracked about an inch for about 3-5 mins while the fire gets good and hot. Then add small split and keep door open for another 3-5 mins, then close door, leaving air wide open. Once that split gets going good, I add another split, and leave the air wide open for another 15-20, add a 3rd split, air wide open for another 5. By this time the fire is HOT and the thermo reads ~400. From there, I start dialing the air back gradually to about Â¼ to 1/8 open. I'm getting plenty of heat into the house with the thermometer reading between 300 and 400, but at the same time I don't want creosote buildup either. Accodring to the thermometer, anything above 250 is out of the â€œdanger: creosoteâ€ zone. The inside of the firebox seems very hot: the baffle tubes are glowing orange and the flames around the baffle are burning bright blue, indicating good secondary combustion.

Click to expand...

That sounds like you're temperatures are fine. The poplar and aspen around here burn hot enough, but they're exhausted quick (which is why they're usually saved for the 'shoulder season', since you don't have to commit to extended burn times using that wood). Also, I give the local poplar two years to season. It's usually so wet that it literally splashes when I split it green, and the bark doesn't separate easily from the wood. You may have a different variety though.

MTMike said:

3)What is the best air control method throughout the entire burn from begining to end? I have found that wide open until the thermometer reads 400ish (where it usually hovers and won't climb above) Then I dial it back to about Â¼ to 1/8 open. And let it burn slow and hot refueling as necessary. If I close it completely it seems to want to suffocate the fire and the temp starts to drop.

Click to expand...

That's a dance you'll learn with practice. One of the guidelines I use is dialing back the air to one of two points: one, if there's smoke visible in the chamber that's not igniting (not enough air, generally early in the burn) and two, if there's not enough air to keep the wood burning (usually if I misread the fire and I backed it off too quickly). When the wood is outgassing like a champ and you back it off all the way, you'll probably see the fireplace secondaries all light up real nice, but if you pulled that trigger too early, a few minutes later, the flames will be gone. If the flames aren't gone when you do this, you should be good to let that thing simmer for several hours until you get to coals.

MTMike said:

4)When it gets too hot in the house and it's time to shut 'er* down what's the best method to do so.... but at the same time limiting smoldering/creosote? The few times I've done it I just close the air all the way and scatter the coals.

Click to expand...

I open the outside door or a window for a heat purge. There's an art to maintaining room temperature while also maintaining good stove temps (and frankly I'm still perfecting this myself), but if your stove is at operating temperature and you have the air shut down, creosote buildup shouldn't be a problem. Besides backing off the air, there's not much you can do other than an ugly intervention (ice or a fire extinguisher in the chamber)?

MTMike said:

5)What about blower operation? This stove's blower is 100% manual. Obviously I wait for the stove to build some heat to turn it on, but when I'm shutting it down, should I turn the blower off or leave it on? What about on overnight burns? Will the blower affect flue temps and/or creosote buildup?

Click to expand...

I only use the blower when I come home to an icy house, and I'm going to run the stove very hot to burn the chill off, and I need that heat moving around. I don't run it like this overnight though... once the chill is gone, and I'm in 'maintenance mode', the blower comes off. I find that outside of the context of the peak of one's fire (especially on the tail end of a burn through the night), that the blower will rob the firebox of heat, and I may wind up with more coals than I'd like. By the time your wood has finished outgassing, and the hot wood coals are all that's left, that's pretty clean combustion and creosote shouldn't be a problem.

The poster gave lots of great advice here. I agree about the air control. Just got to monitor the smoke coming off and the secondaries as you dial it back. As far as cooling the house off, time will take care of that. I like it when it's in the 80's. By the time a few hours pass, the temp comes down as everything in your home soaks up the energy.

nola mike · Dec 24, 2011

I disagree about the poplar. It Burns plenty hot, but fast. Those btu charts don't tell you anything about how hot the wood burns. Be careful with the temps you're getting--on my insert there's no where to put a thermometer that would corrospond a traditional stove to temp

MTMike · Dec 25, 2011

Thank you for the input and advice everyone!

After burning the insert today I feel like I'm getting a good feel for it. I truly think my limiting factor in everything I'm doing is the fuel. Unfortunately, we don't have many native hard woods (Oak, Maple, etc) here in Montana. White Ash seems to be the most plentiful "decent" wood. So I will work with what I have access to, especially what I can get for free.

As mentioned above, the Poplar seems to be burning hot, it just goes quickly, so by the time it really starts to build heat it's burnt out. I also, as mentioned above, suspect that the thermometer isn't reading the same as it would on a non-EPA stove. It will read 300 on the top and the baffle tubes will be glowing orange, indicating a TON of heat in the burn box, so I'm not going to give it much weight on the burn efficiency. A buddy of mine has a point-and-shoot thermometer and I'll take the temp of the chimney liner where it comes out of the back of the stove and see what it reads.

Again, thanks to everyone for the insight.

nola mike · Dec 25, 2011

And actually, it appears we have the same insert. I've started putting a candy thermometer in the air gap to monitor overall stove temps. Works well. I've found that i should let those temps hit about 300'or so before turning down the air. It will then cruise at 275' at 1/4 air open. Using an ir thermometer you'll find the temps to be very inconsistent depending on where you measure. Also, my insert manual says that i have a thermostatically controlled blower (i didn't). SBI sent me a thermo switch when i called them.

Wood Duck · Dec 25, 2011

It sounds like you're not filling the box with wood. A full box will give you higher temps than a few splits will. I would load a full load into the firebox all at once rather than add a split here and a split there. New stoves (I assume your insert is a new EPA- approved secondary burn insert burn better when loaded then allowed to burn to coals, then reloaded rather than the add a split or two every once in a while method.

You should be able to get the stove plenty hot with poplar. The biggest difference between poplar and denser woods is how long they burn, not how hot.

Backwoods Savage · Dec 26, 2011

MTMike said:
1)Where should the insert-top thermometer be placed? The insert sticks out from the faceplate about 6â€ and I have a magnetic thermometer on the top of the stuck-out area, offset to the left a little. Is this a good position for it?
2)How do I get a hotter burn? I suspect because I'm burning Poplar and it's a fast-burning, low-output species of wood, but is there anything else I may be doing wrong? The technique I'm using is: some kindling with a piece of newspaper to get it started, air wide open, door cracked about an inch for about 3-5 mins while the fire gets good and hot. Then add small split and keep door open for another 3-5 mins, then close door, leaving air wide open. Once that split gets going good, I add another split, and leave the air wide open for another 15-20, add a 3rd split, air wide open for another 5. By this time the fire is HOT and the thermo reads ~400. From there, I start dialing the air back gradually to about Â¼ to 1/8 open. I'm getting plenty of heat into the house with the thermometer reading between 300 and 400, but at the same time I don't want creosote buildup either. Accodring to the thermometer, anything above 250 is out of the â€œdanger: creosoteâ€ zone. The inside of the firebox seems very hot: the baffle tubes are glowing orange and the flames around the baffle are burning bright blue, indicating good secondary combustion.
3)What is the best air control method throughout the entire burn from begining to end? I have found that wide open until the thermometer reads 400ish (where it usually hovers and won't climb above) Then I dial it back to about Â¼ to 1/8 open. And let it burn slow and hot refueling as necessary. If I close it completely it seems to want to suffocate the fire and the temp starts to drop.
4)When it gets too hot in the house and it's time to shut 'er* down what's the best method to do so.... but at the same time limiting smoldering/creosote? The few times I've done it I just close the air all the way and scatter the coals.
5)What about blower operation? This stove's blower is 100% manual. Obviously I wait for the stove to build some heat to turn it on, but when I'm shutting it down, should I turn the blower off or leave it on? What about on overnight burns? Will the blower affect flue temps and/or creosote buildup?

I'm loving this insert, and for less than $1500 for the whole setup and heating my home with free wood, I couldn't be happier. I know it's not the fanciest, biggest or most high-tech insert, but for the price, I simply can't complain.

Thanks for any and all input.

Welcome to the forum Mike.

No comment on the thermometer but someone else will chime in on that one. But take heart Mike. Plenty of people, especially in Montana and Wyoming heat their homes with nothing but cottonwood. Further east people can afford to be wood snobs because of the wealth of hardwood trees available. Still, some out east do heat with the softer woods like cottonwood and popple. zap comes to mind as he has been burning a lot of popple and he lives near the Canada border so it gets cold there. We have heated a whole winter with nothing but popple and we got through it. Popple will give lots of heat; just as much as other wood. It just will not last long nor will you get much for coals. You will tend to get a bit more ashes.

On the filling and burning you should keep a few things in mind. First, every time you open that firebox door you are letting in lots and lots of cooler air which cools the firebox. You'll do much better by filling the firebox, leave the draft open full until the wood gets charred just a tiny bit and then start to close the draft. Remember too that when you have the draft full open, more heat is going up the chimney and you will not reap the benefit of that heat. This is why it is important to start closing that draft sometimes sooner than you are. Rather than a certain temperature, I like to watch the fire. Charred wood is mainly what we watch for but after a while you'll understand the fire better and can judge a lot just by looking at it.

Each stove and each installation can differ a bit but to give you a general idea of how we do it. We load the stove with what we need (we do not always fill the firebox). Our wood is very dry so 5 minute is sometimes all we need to establish the fire and then we turn the draft down half way. After that, usually 10-15 minutes we have the draft turned down to 25% or less and just let it burn. Notice that we open the firebox door only one time in this cycle.

Experiment with the stove but remember some generalities. Burn your cottonwood and popple with pride. That is what you have so that is what you'll burn and you'll be the richer for it.

One more thing. When the house gets hot, usually by that time you do not have to worry a bit about creosote because you will be towards the end of the burn. It is at the start of the burn when you will have creosote problems but if your wood is good and dry (1 year is ideal for those two woods), you should be fine and not have a creosote problem. Still, check that chimney regularly. Monthly is good your first year and then you'll know how often in your second year.

Blazin · Dec 26, 2011

MTMike, welcome to the forums.

I'm also living in Eastern MT, and have found a good source of usually free BTU's. Check with the local ranchers for old removed fenceposts. Of the old ones, you'll find Red Cedar, which is great for kindling or can be burned straight away. But, the best BTUs come from the twisted ones that look like a branch or tree trunk stuck in the ground. These are Juniper and burn very hot. They will pop and snap, so make sure you're observing fire safety with combustibles too close to the fire.

BTW, Malta is where I'm located.

dafattkidd · Dec 26, 2011

MTMike,

I don't know how much this helps, but when I had a smaller insert, I found it burned a lot hotter on a reload (loading on a bed of coals). So after a cold start, usually the second load would burn a lot hotter than the first. I used to place my thermometer on the door. Either way, if you're heating yourself out of the house, you're probably doing a pretty good job. Also, I have a thermostatic control on my blower, but never use it. I turn the fan on when I want it, and off when I want it off. Either way, glad you're enjoying wood burning. Good luck with it. Get your hands on a ton of that ash. Fuel source makes a big difference.

WoodpileOCD · Dec 26, 2011

2)How do I get a hotter burn? I suspect because Iâ€™m burning Poplar and itâ€™s a fast-burning, low-output species of wood, but is there anything else I may be doing wrong? The technique Iâ€™m using is: some kindling with a piece of newspaper to get it started, air wide open, door cracked about an inch for about 3-5 mins while the fire gets good and hot. Then add small split and keep door open for another 3-5 mins, then close door, leaving air wide open. Once that split gets going good, I add another split, and leave the air wide open for another 15-20, add a 3rd split, air wide open for another 5. By this time the fire is HOT and the thermo reads ~400. From there, I start dialing the air back gradually to about Â¼ to 1/8 open

Got some excellent advice here as is usually the case. Just a couple of things from me. Look at the bold above and I see that as your major issue. In my many years of experience burning wood, whether a stove, outdoor pit fire, fireplace, campfire etc. I've found that the best thing I can do to get a good roaring fire quickly is to get the kindling going and then pile it on and let the fire take it's course. It may seem like it takes a long time when you pile on the wood and it's quicker with just a little at a time but I don't think it is. If you have a good drafting stove and good kindling, you shouldn't have to leave the door open but just a couple minutes then close it with the air controls wide open.

Everyone does it just a little different but when I start cold, I put two splits (medium or large doesn't really matter) in with some space in the middle. I lay a couple of pieces of large kindling down in between them and break up my small kindling into a pile in the front of the box. My small kindling is usually 1/4" strips I've cut from pine boards I have scrounged or have left over from a project. Bone dry and lots of surface area and usually it will light with just a match without any paper. On top of that I put a couple more kindling splits and light it. Leave the door open for a couple minutes then shut it with draft full open and shotgun air ( I have a seperate air inlet right at the front that will blow directly on the kindling pile in the front) wide open. Within a few minutes (3-5) I open the door and fill the firebox with whatever I'm going to use for that particular burn 1/2 full, 3/4 or get out my crowbar to get a couple more in and then close it up with controls open. Within another 10-15 min I'm ready to engage my cat and shut controls to 1/2 and then in another 5 min to all the way closed or barely open. I've only got about 6 months burning time between this year and last on this stove but this is the routine I've figured out so far works for me. I try different ways still but this works.

On the thermometer, I got an IR gun and found the hottest spot on the front of the insert and put it there. It's really just a reference point for how the burn is going anyway. With an insert, don't expect to see the 600-700 temps the guys with freestanding stoves talk about on the stovetop because of the air shrouding that surrounds the firebox for the blower to move air through.

Hope some of this helps. I'd try any suggestions you get to see how they work. Worst case is that you find out it's not as good as what you are doing and you've used a cycle to find out.

I've been burning poplar and pine primarily so far for the first time and have to say, I'm plenty pleased with it with the weather we've been having.

MTMike · Dec 27, 2011

Excellent information guys! All great suggestions. I really think I'm getting the hang of this thing with your suggestions.

Thank you so much!

nelraq · Dec 27, 2011

Backwoods Savage said:
MTMike said:

1)Where should the insert-top thermometer be placed? The insert sticks out from the faceplate about 6â€ and I have a magnetic thermometer on the top of the stuck-out area, offset to the left a little. Is this a good position for it?
2)How do I get a hotter burn? I suspect because I'm burning Poplar and it's a fast-burning, low-output species of wood, but is there anything else I may be doing wrong? The technique I'm using is: some kindling with a piece of newspaper to get it started, air wide open, door cracked about an inch for about 3-5 mins while the fire gets good and hot. Then add small split and keep door open for another 3-5 mins, then close door, leaving air wide open. Once that split gets going good, I add another split, and leave the air wide open for another 15-20, add a 3rd split, air wide open for another 5. By this time the fire is HOT and the thermo reads ~400. From there, I start dialing the air back gradually to about Â¼ to 1/8 open. I'm getting plenty of heat into the house with the thermometer reading between 300 and 400, but at the same time I don't want creosote buildup either. Accodring to the thermometer, anything above 250 is out of the â€œdanger: creosoteâ€ zone. The inside of the firebox seems very hot: the baffle tubes are glowing orange and the flames around the baffle are burning bright blue, indicating good secondary combustion.
3)What is the best air control method throughout the entire burn from begining to end? I have found that wide open until the thermometer reads 400ish (where it usually hovers and won't climb above) Then I dial it back to about Â¼ to 1/8 open. And let it burn slow and hot refueling as necessary. If I close it completely it seems to want to suffocate the fire and the temp starts to drop.
4)When it gets too hot in the house and it's time to shut 'er* down what's the best method to do so.... but at the same time limiting smoldering/creosote? The few times I've done it I just close the air all the way and scatter the coals.
5)What about blower operation? This stove's blower is 100% manual. Obviously I wait for the stove to build some heat to turn it on, but when I'm shutting it down, should I turn the blower off or leave it on? What about on overnight burns? Will the blower affect flue temps and/or creosote buildup?

I'm loving this insert, and for less than $1500 for the whole setup and heating my home with free wood, I couldn't be happier. I know it's not the fanciest, biggest or most high-tech insert, but for the price, I simply can't complain.

Thanks for any and all input.

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Welcome to the forum Mike.

No comment on the thermometer but someone else will chime in on that one. But take heart Mike. Plenty of people, especially in Montana and Wyoming heat their homes with nothing but cottonwood. Further east people can afford to be wood snobs because of the wealth of hardwood trees available. Still, some out east do heat with the softer woods like cottonwood and popple. zap comes to mind as he has been burning a lot of popple and he lives near the Canada border so it gets cold there. We have heated a whole winter with nothing but popple and we got through it. Popple will give lots of heat; just as much as other wood. It just will not last long nor will you get much for coals. You will tend to get a bit more ashes.

On the filling and burning you should keep a few things in mind. First, every time you open that firebox door you are letting in lots and lots of cooler air which cools the firebox. You'll do much better by filling the firebox, leave the draft open full until the wood gets charred just a tiny bit and then start to close the draft. Remember too that when you have the draft full open, more heat is going up the chimney and you will not reap the benefit of that heat. This is why it is important to start closing that draft sometimes sooner than you are. Rather than a certain temperature, I like to watch the fire. Charred wood is mainly what we watch for but after a while you'll understand the fire better and can judge a lot just by looking at it.

Each stove and each installation can differ a bit but to give you a general idea of how we do it. We load the stove with what we need (we do not always fill the firebox). Our wood is very dry so 5 minute is sometimes all we need to establish the fire and then we turn the draft down half way. After that, usually 10-15 minutes we have the draft turned down to 25% or less and just let it burn. Notice that we open the firebox door only one time in this cycle.

Experiment with the stove but remember some generalities. Burn your cottonwood and popple with pride. That is what you have so that is what you'll burn and you'll be the richer for it.

One more thing. When the house gets hot, usually by that time you do not have to worry a bit about creosote because you will be towards the end of the burn. It is at the start of the burn when you will have creosote problems but if your wood is good and dry (1 year is ideal for those two woods), you should be fine and not have a creosote problem. Still, check that chimney regularly. Monthly is good your first year and then you'll know how often in your second year.

+300 to the bold faced text above. That was my mistake as well...I would get a fire going and leave the draft wide open - thinking that this would heat the stove faster. In fact, all I was doing was heating the chimney and the outdoors!! I could sometimes burn a near full load of fuel and still not be up to 400!!

Now, I fill the firebox, light her up, and leave the door open for a few minutes. I start lowering the draft almost immediately after closing the door. Now the stove top is, usually, up to 400 withing 15 - 20 minutes.

Cheers!

Wood Duck · Dec 27, 2011

for question #3: I think you may be letting the air remain wide open too long then shutting down too rapidly. If you want a more even fire I would let the stove get going with healthy flame on the wood and some secondary flames, then begin to shut down in increments. Keep the fire going with flames on the wood and secondaries above, but don't let it engulf the entire firebox, at least not right away.

for question #4: I think you should open a window. Wood stoves, at least non-catalytic ones like mine, just can't be controlled like a furnace. The temperature varies through the burn cycle and there is only so much you can do. If my stove is hitting the middle of a burn with a full load, it is going to be in the 500 degree range at minimum, and maybe 700 at most. I cannot decide I want it to drop to 300 degrees or turn off in the middle of the burn, but I can open a window. Fresh air is good for you.

MTMike · Dec 27, 2011

Adabiviak said:
I open the outside door or a window for a heat purge. There's an art to maintaining room temperature while also maintaining good stove temps (and frankly I'm still perfecting this myself), but if your stove is at operating temperature and you have the air shut down, creosote buildup shouldn't be a problem. Besides backing off the air, there's not much you can do other than an ugly intervention (ice or a fire extinguisher in the chamber)?

Wood Duck said:
for question #4: I think you should open a window. Wood stoves, at least non-catalytic ones like mine, just can't be controlled like a furnace. The temperature varies through the burn cycle and there is only so much you can do. If my stove is hitting the middle of a burn with a full load, it is going to be in the 500 degree range at minimum, and maybe 700 at most. I cannot decide I want it to drop to 300 degrees or turn off in the middle of the burn, but I can open a window. Fresh air is good for you.

I suppose I wasn't all too clear in the wording of my question, so let me rephrase it.

When I'm no longer going to add fuel at the end of a burn, such as when I'm planning on leaving the house for more than a few hours, or if it's 82 degrees in the house and all that remains are coals at 9pm and I don't plan on adding more fuel until morning, what is the best method to shut 'er down for the time being? Close the air completely to let the coals burn slowly? Wide open so that they burn out quickly and maintain a stronger draft while doing so? or whatever air setting it was at when it burned down to coals? or D) Other?

Thanks,
Mike

Wood Duck · Dec 27, 2011

If you have all coals then you can shut the air down. Coals don't make smoke or creosote, at least not much.

MTMike · Dec 27, 2011

Wood Duck said:
If you have all coals then you can shut the air down. Coals don't make smoke or creosote, at least not much.

Beautiful! Thanks!

nola mike · Dec 27, 2011

If you shove all your coals to the back and shut the air , you may be able to still have enough to just reload in the am.
Also, I disagree about shutting down too late. imho, you're much better off shutting down late than early. If you shut down late you may lose some efficiency, but if you shut down early you lose your heat output.

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