Black Bear
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precaud
Minister of Fire
How come your not hung over??? haha Are you going to respond to my other post? Please do...I wanna know your experience! Thanx Jeff
Are you asking about the original 118 or about the new F118CB? In the Classics forum here, search for threads on the original model. brianbeech had the great luck to find one in pristine condition and has some nice reports on burning with the 118. If the new model, there aren't a lot of long-term happy reports on it, mostly due to premature warping of the secondary rack.
I have ran an older 118. It was a very good heater, although the size of the door makes it hard to load full. You can get nice long splits on the bottom but theres no room to put long ones up on top, due to the small door. The Black Bear would be even worse, since it has the baffle that hangs lower than the 118. If you cut all your own wood it wouldn't be too bad, if you gotta buy it, it can be frustrating.
We've had our 118 Black Bear for 15 months and are very happy with it. Granted that can't really be considered 'long term' but it's been a great little stove for us.
We do cut all our own wood, so are able to cut longer pieces to take advantage of the 24" long firebox... I imagine it would be annoying to try to burn the standard 16-18" pieces most people sell.
We do cut all our own wood, so are able to cut longer pieces to take advantage of the 24" long firebox... I imagine it would be annoying to try to burn the standard 16-18" pieces most people sell.
@ Stek...I would imagine that if you follow the manufacturors instructions...you will have a long term relation with this stove? I hear lots of people have warps and cracks reguardless of the type of materials are built into a stove. Jeff
Yes I certainly hope so 
I expect that if we treat it well it will last a long time. Out of the box it is extremely well put together and appears to be very well made and burns beautifully.
I expect that if we treat it well it will last a long time. Out of the box it is extremely well put together and appears to be very well made and burns beautifully.
neumsky said:
Well, no. That's not true. I've never had a warp or crack with a steel stove. That would only happen if it was ran too hard. I have run the 30 pretty hard, it cruises around 750 for hours on end, but no warping or cracking. I had an old CDW Rocky mountain with a crack in the back plate. It was there before I got it and I'm pretty sure it was due to overfiring with coal by the previous owner. I heard of small cracks developing with soapstone also.
I have experience with a 118. When I was small my father had one in our family room. I remember the splits sizzling when you opened the door and my pajammas melting on the top of it. Then I remember coming home one day to the firetrucks at the house. We had a chimney fire. Luckily my Grandfather was there to call the FD.
*Edited on the reques of BEGREEN*
Matt
Well your not sposed to put your PJ's in there haha! And I'll bet that fire was'nt because it was cast iron!
VCBurner
Minister of Fire
Steel stoves do crack. There are threads with pictures here to prove it. I'm not proud to admit that my DW was taken well beyond 750 more than once or twice. No cracks or warping there. Yes, I agree with you Jeff, any stove can be taken beyond its limit. Some tolerate the constant beating better than others though. I don't have experience with the new F118. My old box stove was convenient, any long branches that would not fit in my other stove would be saved for its longfirebox. I had very little creosote build up in the two years of running that stove. It only had one speed, full tilt! The stove you intend on buying is a totally different beast. It could be a good match for you. If I was in your shoes the Oslo would be my top choice in the Jotul brand. Actually, the Firelight would be what I would put my money on. That is what I would do, but it would be a primary heater. It would save money as well as bring comfort and style, just another 2 ¢!
Appreciate you Chris... I will toss it around! Thanx so much! I would assume that steel warps usually first?!
Normally cracks develop at a stressed or poor weld on a steel stove's shell. They don't often warp unless the metal is really thin and that is usually only on the cheapest stoves. All stoves can develop warped parts on interior pieces if they are pushed hard or their design has a tendency to overheat a particular area.
Ok! So what your saying is is that steel which if I'm not mistaken is rolled Iron... can take higher temps?
Not really. Both steel and cast iron stoves should stay below about 750F for best longevity. An occasional short foray to 800F is not going to hurt either, but constant use at higher temps can reduce their lifespan. Some of this depends on the stove design too, so it's not accurate to make it a universal statement. Very high temps can damage the best of stoves.
FWIW, steel is not just rolled iron. It's an alloy of iron, carbon and other elements.
FWIW, steel is not just rolled iron. It's an alloy of iron, carbon and other elements.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
neumsky said:
Steel and cast iron are not the same thing. There is a chemical difference, not just a rolled vs. cast difference.
here's an example... I have an Englander 30 and I fear I may have overfired it. The paint around the collar looks a bit faded, almost rubbed away. I have never noticed the stove even remotely glowing, but my stovetop thermometer has been pegged at 800 before. This is my second year burning with the stove and I never had issues with the stove temps last year burning less than ideal wood(imagine that). Anyway, I have 30 feet of exterior Class A and my draft is a little extreme. Based upon some other members recommendations(thanks Pen) I installed the forbidden key damper last week. This has helped control the craziness but I noticed the paint around the collar missing at that time. I did a visual inspection at that time and it appeared superficial, but the bottom 12 inches of the black stove pipe is a bit lighter than the rest of the pipe—but still black.
Here's another one... Been burning under 550f stovetop temp for a month with my new fireview(love this stove). Pulled the stackpipe today to inspect for creosote…minimal at best, then I noticed a 1/16†wide crack and other small 1/4†long cracks near it on back which all follow the grain and appear to just be external. Just wrote Woodstock an email waiting for a reply. Photo is to big for this site check it out here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/70854997@N06/6630235585/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/70854997@N06/6630235585/in/photostream
VCBurner
Minister of Fire
No. You can search around, for just about any kind of stove there are negative and positive comments.
I'd take a Fireview or an Englander 30nc over a Black Bear any day. Woodstock would take that stove back regardless of the situation if you are not happy within six months of the purchase. The 30 is a beast, a flame breathing, heating machine. Both could hold a fire for way longer than the new 118.
I'd take a Fireview or an Englander 30nc over a Black Bear any day. Woodstock would take that stove back regardless of the situation if you are not happy within six months of the purchase. The 30 is a beast, a flame breathing, heating machine. Both could hold a fire for way longer than the new 118.
Just outa curiousity Chris...how do you know if you've never owned a Black Bear 118? I don't even know if we have any of those stoves around here in OKC.
VCBurner
Minister of Fire
I have never owned any of the stoves mentioned in my previous post on this thread. Just speculation. Numerous hours of reading others experiemce with those stoves would lead me to that choice. But like I said, the 118 may suit you to a T, brother. It looks like a pretty good little heater for a part timer. I heat alternatively, not with my furnace. Hardly turned it on for years now, except to heat the hot water, oil is way too expensive!neumsky said:
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