Econoburn Gasket Material

NNYorker · Jan 3, 2010

After dealing with a sticking/leaking upper chamber gasket last year I decided to change things up before the burn season this year. Mc Master-Carr supplied the materials for the door gasket and access panels for the turbulators. I don't know how EKOs and Tarms are sealed but the material I used for the access panels may work for them also. Even the Seton/Greenwood/Adobe owners with their outer skins/ taking them off/ putting them back on. I had enough with high temp. sealant--fighting to get panels off and prepping the area for new sealant. I have'nt had any access panels back off yet, no problems with leaks-- Installed in October. Upper door works great--no stuck shut door, creosote will wipe off the gasket.

Trial run on the pictures- its been a while posting pics..

NNYorker · Jan 3, 2010

More pictures.......Hi Temp. Silicone

WRVERMONT · Jan 3, 2010

Congradulations,
Looks like nice work. Thanks for the pictures.

wantstoburnwood · Jan 3, 2010

This looks interesting . I reinstalled the old rope gasket last spring when I cleaned my turbulators . The lower door gasket seems to be leaking a bit .What sre these gaskets you have made from? Can you send me a link to the company you purchased them from?

NNYorker · Jan 3, 2010

wantstoburnwood said:
This looks interesting . I reinstalled the old rope gasket last spring when I cleaned my turbulators . The lower door gasket seems to be leaking a bit .What sre these gaskets you have made from? Can you send me a link to the company you purchased them from?

I measured my door channel depth and width. I found this is what I wanted to try instead of the yearly gasket issues-- http://www.mcmaster.com/#93755k93/=57qyv8 . I used this for the turb. panels but I couldn't get the chimney exhaust panel off so I left it on--d@#m hi-temp sealant. Next season maybe. Turb. panels-- http://www.mcmaster.com/#8645k13/=57r2pa .

I used two lengths for the door with a little over a foot left over. Clean your door channel well to help adhesive stick. You will have to force the silicone to make the 90 on the door and lay flat. Make sure you check that the corners of the door are sealed by the silicone--adjust as needed. As you can see by the pics---top turb. access panel--I placed silicone on the boiler and panel itself. Maybe 1/8" would be a better choice with a single layer on the access panel. ??? It is possible the EKO silicone gasket could work on the door but I did not research it at all. I don't see what I have now ever wearing out in the near future. I did have to adjust my hinges in...

Try this link instead http://www.mcmaster.com/#silicone-rubber/=57rfwy Door-- 1/2" thick X 3/4" wide w/ adhesive
Panels-- 1/16" thick X 1" wide Strip n Stick search for these under Sheets, bars, strips--- for some reason link won't go directly to each item??

willworkforwood · Jan 3, 2010

Thanks NNYorker - I had already ordered a new fiber door gasket this week, but will file your info away for future consideration - it sounds like something worth trying. When I called EB to order it, the ever-helpful Dale mentioned that he experimented with some hi-temp silicone sealer to extend the life of a door gasket in one of their factory units; and that it had lasted another year. So, always being game to try things, yesterday I patched some leftover Rutland 600 into the corners where the gasket deterioration was the worst. The results so far have been a very good seal, and the stuff appears to be tough enough to stand up to lots of door activity. I did this work while the boiler was actively burning, via the following method. When it was down to a bed of non-smoking coals, I patched the sealer into the gasket grove using a narrow chisel, and then built up the side ridge with light finger pressure. I used small strips of waxed paper to cover the top chamber ridge where it meets the gasket. On both sides of the waxed paper, I applied oil to reduce sticking. No baby oil in the house, but we did have suntan lotion. Now, if the thought of putting suntan lotion on a wood boiler doesn't make you smile, it's the best I can do. Then after a couple of hours of burning on a partial load of wood, the door released with no stick and the waxed paper peeled off ok, leaving a "gasket". It's not wining any art contest, but the extra creosote I was getting on the door ledge is now history. The first pic is a side view of the stuff on the door, and the other is looking at it with the door open. I'm gong to put the new gasket in the bullpen, and find out how long the silicone patch will last.

JimP · Jan 2, 2012

I own a new Econburn 100 and have had bad odors from the start. It's installed in my basement and the smell is intolerable. I'm interested in how your silicon seals have worked out over time. I'm sure my rope seals are what is leaking, but my installer has not been able to solve the problem.

Thanks,

Jim

willworkforwood · Jan 2, 2012

JimP said:
I own a new Econburn 100 and have had bad odors from the start. It's installed in my basement and the smell is intolerable. I'm interested in how your silicon seals have worked out over time. I'm sure my rope seals are what is leaking, but my installer has not been able to solve the problem.
Thanks,
Jim

You said the smell is intolerable, but don't mention if you're actually seeing smoke coming out from either of the doors. To find this out, turn off all the basement lights, and use a flashlight to look for smoke coming out of the doors. If there is smoke coming out of your new unit, it's likely that one or both of the doors isn't adjusted correctly (i.e. not tight enough). In that case you will need to undo the hinge bolts (with the door open) and then turn them in a bit. If you do this, be aware that the door is VERY heavy, and will need to be supported by another (beefy) person, or by supporting it from the floor. However, it may also be possible that the doors aren't leaking at all, and what you're smelling is creosote liquefying on the gasket and/or exiting via the BD. It's been unusually warm (I believe also in WI), and your boiler is probably idling a lot (unless you're running lots of small fires). Idling and/or poorly seasoned wood will produce creosote (beyond the normal stuff in the upper chamber), and can cause big problems in the HX (heat tubes). Are you using seasoned (20%) wood? Also, you should remove creosote deposits from the upper door regularly - a paint scraper works well for this job.

goosegunner · Jan 2, 2012

JimP said:
I own a new Econburn 100 and have had bad odors from the start. It's installed in my basement and the smell is intolerable. I'm interested in how your silicon seals have worked out over time. I'm sure my rope seals are what is leaking, but my installer has not been able to solve the problem.

Thanks,

Jim

PM me with your location if you want. I live in Wisconsin and have an Econoburn 200. Last year I put sealant on the gasket and it worked well. I do have my boiler in a shed, and am very glad it is there instead of my house.

gg

JimP · Jan 2, 2012

Thanks for the quick responses. Here is more info that may help.

I have looked for leaks using a flashlight, and initially found one in the lower door. I adjusted the door hinges and now I don't see any smoke, but the smell persists. It is only present while the unit is operating, and first becomes noticable when put into gasification mode. I suspect the pressurization of the system is forcing out some gases somewhere, probably the upper door. There is no creosote in the lower chamber but lots in the upper and around the door. I'll definitely remove what I can before my next burn, but I don't see evidence of leakage. My installer checked and re-did all the seals on the chassis so I believe there is no leak there (my nose confirms this). He also put some silicon sealant on the rope seal of the doors and used mineral oil or WD40 on the rope.

My boiler has been running fairly constantly, but does cycle. The off cycles are not particularly long as I have been dumping heat into my basement to warm it up. Even today with the temp at 15 degrees this am, I am getting the smell.

Also, is there a manual or other information about the best way to light the boiler and when to go to gasification etc. The EB manual tells me nothing about this. I would also like to know which of the adjustment screws controls the upper vs lower air inlets and what the settings should be. My installer altered these due to smoke being forced into my basement by excessive airflow ( I have a 6" chimney and the chimney evidently couldn't handle the volume of air which caused smoke to be force through every joint in the flue pipe.) He dialed back the combustion air, but I think maybe too much.

FYI I have a poured refractory concrete chimney liner (Golden's Chimney)

Thanks,

Jim

JimP · Jan 2, 2012

My wood is well seasoned also. I used to run an old Steel King boiler so I have some experience with burning wood, but the old boiler never gave me odor problems (except when I foolishly opened the door to check the fire and filled the room with smoke).

Jim

Gasifier · Jan 2, 2012

NNYorker said:
wantstoburnwood said:

This looks interesting . I reinstalled the old rope gasket last spring when I cleaned my turbulators . The lower door gasket seems to be leaking a bit .What sre these gaskets you have made from? Can you send me a link to the company you purchased them from?

Click to expand...

I measured my door channel depth and width. I found this is what I wanted to try instead of the yearly gasket issues-- http://www.mcmaster.com/#93755k93/=57qyv8 . I used this for the turb. panels but I couldn't get the chimney exhaust panel off so I left it on--d@#m hi-temp sealant. Next season maybe. Turb. panels-- http://www.mcmaster.com/#8645k13/=57r2pa .
I used two lengths for the door with a little over a foot left over. Clean your door channel well to help adhesive stick. You will have to force the silicone to make the 90 on the door and lay flat. Make sure you check that the corners of the door are sealed by the silicone--adjust as needed. As you can see by the pics---top turb. access panel--I placed silicone on the boiler and panel itself. Maybe 1/8" would be a better choice with a single layer on the access panel. ??? It is possible the EKO silicone gasket could work on the door but I did not research it at all. I don't see what I have now ever wearing out in the near future. I did have to adjust my hinges in...
Try this link instead http://www.mcmaster.com/#silicone-rubber/=57rfwy Door-- 1/2" thick X 3/4" wide w/ adhesive
Panels-- 1/16" thick X 1" wide Strip n Stick search for these under Sheets, bars, strips--- for some reason link won't go directly to each item??

Nice work NNYorker! Thanks for sharing the information and the pics. This may be handy in the future. Have a good one.

willworkforwood · Jan 2, 2012

JimP said:
Thanks for the quick responses. Here is more info that may help.

I have looked for leaks using a flashlight, and initially found one in the lower door. I adjusted the door hinges and now I don't see any smoke, but the smell persists. It is only present while the unit is operating, and first becomes noticable when put into gasification mode. I suspect the pressurization of the system is forcing out some gases somewhere, probably the upper door. There is no creosote in the lower chamber but lots in the upper and around the door. I'll definitely remove what I can before my next burn, but I don't see evidence of leakage. My installer checked and re-did all the seals on the chassis so I believe there is no leak there (my nose confirms this). He also put some silicon sealant on the rope seal of the doors and used mineral oil or WD40 on the rope.

My boiler has been running fairly constantly, but does cycle. The off cycles are not particularly long as I have been dumping heat into my basement to warm it up. Even today with the temp at 15 degrees this am, I am getting the smell.

Also, is there a manual or other information about the best way to light the boiler and when to go to gasification etc. The EB manual tells me nothing about this. I would also like to know which of the adjustment screws controls the upper vs lower air inlets and what the settings should be. My installer altered these due to smoke being forced into my basement by excessive airflow ( I have a 6" chimney and the chimney evidently couldn't handle the volume of air which caused smoke to be force through every joint in the flue pipe.) He dialed back the combustion air, but I think maybe too much.

FYI I have a poured refractory concrete chimney liner (Golden's Chimney)

Thanks,

Jim

It's been the collective experience of the members on this forum that the Econoburn factory air setting is normally optimal. Some folks have done some experiments, only to find out that the original settings worked as good or better than any changes. So you might try returning to the original settings - if you don't know what those were, call Dale at the Econoburn factory.
You've mentioned "putting the boiler into gasification mode" a couple of times, which puzzles me because gasification isn't exactly something that's controlled by the operator. In saying this, are you referring to turning on the fan? If so, the fan should actually be switched on as soon as an initial fire is going, and is going strong enough to not be snuffed out by the fan. If you're waiting a long time to turn on the fan, perhaps you're getting a lot of unprocessed gas collecting, and then being somehow forced out when the fan eventually does start. I use lots of kindling, get a good small fire going, and turn the fan on within one minute of starting the small fire. Then in a couple of minutes after the fire is going good, I'll open up and load whatever amount I'm going to burn for that time period. Others fill it cold, and then start it with a torch from the lower chamber via the nozzle. Either way can work fine, but the fan is always started as soon as possible.

NNYorker · Jan 3, 2012

Update on the gasket material---this fall I did my annual cleaning and tore the Eco apart. Upper door is fine. Access panels off---I found that the upper/top panel had a spot where the temp. got too high and silicone had a meltdown allowing smoke out. I was able to remove the rear/exhaust panel this year. I replaced all silicone this year with high-temp. figerglass gasket from MSC---- http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=4306&PMITEM=31950439&PMCTLG=00 . Used Rutland Hi-Temp(black color) cement to attach. Time will tell if this holds up. I believe airlina used 1/8" thick for his panels last year; maybe he can update how he has made out. The strip and stick is a much easier option---if airlina updates with positive info I will probably go back to the silicone. JimP---even with positive seals on both doors these things will puff from the points of least resistance-----and they vary. Dependent on wood load, when you reload,call for heat, etc., etc., you will get at times huffin', puffin' or whatever you want to call it. Mine will let smoke out the fan/blower panel when these mini-booms occur. How is your chimney----another possible leak source. My single wall adapter off the exhaust which attaches to my double wall black pipe will leak unless I seal it with hi-temp cement. After 3 seasons of burning I have finally have a pretty good read on the Eco and my heating needs-----with that comes much less smoke issues of the first couple of seasons. With no storage I scrape the upper door ledge daily with a wide stiff putty knife and the door itself 1-2 times a week. Starting a fire------shoebox full of bark or bark on top of a piece of cardboard, small splits on top of that, larger splits on top of that. Twist a piece of newspaper for a wick---stick it up nozzle from bottom chamber. Light wick with upper door closed and bypass open. Let roar for a couple and close bottom door. Adjust desired temp so fan kicks on------I have a surface mount magnetic thermom. on my adapter off the exhaust-----I wait till it reads between 200-250* and close the bypass. Full bore gasification occurs when a bed of coals are established. Good advice from WWFW too! It's been said probably 100 times here------there is a learning curve with these things. It does get better !!!

!! Keep us updated!!

airlina · Jan 3, 2012

JimP said:
I own a new Econburn 100 and have had bad odors from the start. It's installed in my basement and the smell is intolerable. I'm interested in how your silicon seals have worked out over time. I'm sure my rope seals are what is leaking, but my installer has not been able to solve the problem.

Thanks,

Jim

Jim, I have a Econoburn 100 in my basement as well (3rd winter) Initially , I had to adjust the doors and use the red high temp silicone around the rope gaskets a few times to keep the smoke from leaking out. I have no storage so mine idles quite a bit. The byproduct of the idling is creosote in the upper chamber and on the door , but this has not been a problem. I would recommend placing some high temp foil tape (flue tape) around all flue joints as well because I found that my biggest problem with the indoor installation was an increase in the dust level in my basement which is the byproduct of gasification . This dust is so fine that it would sneak between the stovepipe joints as it traveled to the masonary chimney. The tape on the joints solved this issue. The boiler has been fantastic and well worth the price. I do not intend to add storage as i am happy with the performance without and don't want the complexity or cost of adding it. I did add a homemade smoke hood this year for times that i need to load before I am down to coals and it works great. I have found the best lighting technique is to make a wick from a rolled up newspaper that I stick thru the gasification slot into the lower chamber. Then add crumpled newspaper to the upper chamber and build your traditional type fire stack. Close the upper door and leave the damper open, then light the wick thru the lower door and leave the lower door cracked open until my flue temp reaches 200 deg. (I have a temp probe in the flue exhaust) then close everything up and go to normal boiler ops mode. Good Luck Bruce

airlina · Jan 3, 2012

As an update on my gasket material, I used 1/8 " silicone last year on my back access panels on my econoburn 100. I noticed during the burn season an increase in the dust amount around the back of the boiler. During my fall cleaning this year I found the source of the dust to be an incomplete sealing of the access panels so I have gone back to the original tubed silicone (the orange high temp stuff by rutland) to seal the panels . Bruce

goosegunner · Jan 3, 2012

Have you guys done anything different with the insulation that covers the plates?

I gave feedback to Econoburn that it would be nice to have a more ridged insulation panel that could be taken off to get to the plates.

I really do not like the amount of work it takes to clean the Econoburn.

gg

JimP · Jan 4, 2012

You Guys are a great resource! And you are absolutely right about the learning curve. I started a fire tonight and had the boiler up from 80 to 160 degrees in about 40 minutes. My installer's way of lighting it took 2 hours. He said to put wood and kindling in the firebox, light it, close the door with the bypass open and allow it to burn until the boiler reached 150 degrees, then close the bypass and go into down-draft mode (what I was calling gasification mode). That made lots of smoke and creosote and wasted a lot of wood. Tonight I made a small fire, got it hot (with the fan on, always), and switched to downdraft as soon as the exhaust was around 200 degrees. Much better!

My smell issue still exists, and I don't think it is from occasional puffs. It seems like a slow but steady leak of creosote-smelling smoke (which is why I think it's from the upper chamber) that gets worse the longer the boiler runs, and may be worse while the fan is on (vs when it is at max temp and shut down). I've examined the seal and don't see any obvious places where leaking might be occurring. Tonight I scraped off any loose creosote build-up around the door opening and on the door (most was on the door) prior to lighting the boiler, so we'll see if that helps. Is it possible to run one of these without odor issues (besides occasional smoke from loading)?

JimP

airlina · Jan 4, 2012

goosegunner said:
Have you guys done anything different with the insulation that covers the plates?

I gave feedback to Econoburn that it would be nice to have a more ridged insulation panel that could be taken off to get to the plates.

I really do not like the amount of work it takes to clean the Econoburn.

gg

same as you , I found the insulation crumbled when I did my cleaning, so this year I replaced it with high temp flexible insulation(good to 1000 deg.) from Mcmaster-carr . Just google Mcmaster -Carr and type high temp insulation in the search box and you can find it. Much sturdier and will not crumble like the factory stuff.

goosegunner · Jan 4, 2012

JimP said:
You Guys are a great resource! And you are absolutely right about the learning curve. I started a fire tonight and had the boiler up from 80 to 160 degrees in about 40 minutes. My installer's way of lighting it took 2 hours. He said to put wood and kindling in the firebox, light it, close the door with the bypass open and allow it to burn until the boiler reached 150 degrees, then close the bypass and go into down-draft mode (what I was calling gasification mode). That made lots of smoke and creosote and wasted a lot of wood. Tonight I made a small fire, got it hot (with the fan on, always), and switched to downdraft as soon as the exhaust was around 200 degrees. Much better!

My smell issue still exists, and I don't think it is from occasional puffs. It seems like a slow but steady leak of creosote-smelling smoke (which is why I think it's from the upper chamber) that gets worse the longer the boiler runs, and may be worse while the fan is on (vs when it is at max temp and shut down). I've examined the seal and don't see any obvious places where leaking might be occurring. Tonight I scraped off any loose creosote build-up around the door opening and on the door (most was on the door) prior to lighting the boiler, so we'll see if that helps. Is it possible to run one of these without odor issues (besides occasional smoke from loading)?

JimP

I sent you a PM.

gg

willworkforwood · Jan 4, 2012

JimP said:
....... Tonight I made a small fire, got it hot (with the fan on, always), and switched to downdraft as soon as the exhaust was around 200 degrees. Much better!

My smell issue still exists, and I don't think it is from occasional puffs. It seems like a slow but steady leak of creosote-smelling smoke (which is why I think it's from the upper chamber) that gets worse the longer the boiler runs, and may be worse while the fan is on (vs when it is at max temp and shut down). I've examined the seal and don't see any obvious places where leaking might be occurring. Tonight I scraped off any loose creosote build-up around the door opening and on the door (most was on the door) prior to lighting the boiler, so we'll see if that helps. Is it possible to run one of these without odor issues (besides occasional smoke from loading)?
JimP

You're making progress! Here's where the smell may be coming from. If creosote is allowed to build up on the door (especially the 4 pitched sections next to the gasket), it will run down onto the bottom portion of the gasket. You can tell this is happening when the door pulls sticky threads as it opens. When this happens, a small amount of creosote winds up on the portion of the gasket that is outside of the door flange, and this subsequently begins to cook as the door heats up. When the boiler is down, you might try cleaning the creosote deposited on the gasket with water. Then, be regular on scraping the creosote off of the door.

willworkforwood · Jan 4, 2012

goosegunner said:
Have you guys done anything different with the insulation that covers the plates?

I gave feedback to Econoburn that it would be nice to have a more ridged insulation panel that could be taken off to get to the plates.

I really do not like the amount of work it takes to clean the Econoburn.

gg

After making the turbulator linkage mod (described in another thread), I no longer need to remove the back panel. It's really nice to not have to mess with that large section of insulation, and of course all of the time it takes to undo and reassemble the back panel. Don't plan to ever remove the back plate again, unless some problem develops back there. I clean the tubes every 3-4 weeks via the top plate only. I just lift that small section of insulation on 3 sides and prop it up during the cleaning. When the cleaning is finished it just gets set back down over the top plate. The entire cleaning takes me around 1 hour.

goosegunner · Jan 4, 2012

willworkforwood said:
goosegunner said:

Have you guys done anything different with the insulation that covers the plates?

I gave feedback to Econoburn that it would be nice to have a more ridged insulation panel that could be taken off to get to the plates.

I really do not like the amount of work it takes to clean the Econoburn.

gg

Click to expand...

After making the turbulator linkage mod (described in another thread), I no longer need to remove the back panel. It's really nice to not have to mess with that large section of insulation, and of course all of the time it takes to undo and reassemble the back panel. Don't plan to ever remove the back plate again, unless some problem develops back there. I clean the tubes every 3-4 weeks via the top plate only. I just lift that small section of insulation on 3 sides and prop it up during the cleaning. When the cleaning is finished it just gets set back down over the top plate. The entire cleaning takes me around 1 hour.

Do the turbulators move up and down with the chain linkage?

I am running with storage so I have not had sticky turbulator arm this year.

gg

willworkforwood · Jan 4, 2012

goosegunner said:
willworkforwood said:

goosegunner said:

Have you guys done anything different with the insulation that covers the plates?

I gave feedback to Econoburn that it would be nice to have a more ridged insulation panel that could be taken off to get to the plates.

I really do not like the amount of work it takes to clean the Econoburn.

gg

Click to expand...

After making the turbulator linkage mod (described in another thread), I no longer need to remove the back panel. It's really nice to not have to mess with that large section of insulation, and of course all of the time it takes to undo and reassemble the back panel. Don't plan to ever remove the back plate again, unless some problem develops back there. I clean the tubes every 3-4 weeks via the top plate only. I just lift that small section of insulation on 3 sides and prop it up during the cleaning. When the cleaning is finished it just gets set back down over the top plate. The entire cleaning takes me around 1 hour.

Click to expand...

Do the turbulators move up and down with the chain linkage?

I am running with storage so I have not had sticky turbulator arm this year.

gg

Yes, the turbs are connected by short rods and the chain to the original turb shaker rod, so the handle moves the turbs (further up than the rigid linkage allows). The only time this linkage could become a problem is if a big pile of wet wood was burned, and the tubes became jammed up with creosote. I've been using this chain linkage for 1 1/2 years, and am satisfied with every aspect of the change.

JimP · Jan 5, 2012

@gg - I didn't get your PM, not sure why.

@wwfw I don't have creosote like you describe (gooey, stringy) but I do have some glazed looking and crumbly looking creosote on the beveled parts of the doors which I cleaned off with a scrapper. I still got the smell. When I look at the seal, there is no obvious place where leakage is occurring. I would expect discoloration or creosote build up, but there is nothing like that. Not sure where to go from here.

Jim

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