New homeowner needs advice

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Fiziksgeek

Burning Hunk
Jan 3, 2012
161
Oxford, CT
We bought a house in the fall of 2010 here in CT. It has 2 chimneys. One between the family room and attached garage that has 2 flues, one for the oil furnace in the basement and one for a fireplace in the family room (which I don't think has ever been used). On the other end of the house is our problem. There is an exterior chimney which fed a wood stove in the basement. There was always a slight smoke smell in the basement, but as it was late summer when we saw the place, it was pretty light and didn't bother us. As we got into fall and started closing up the house the odor got worse and worse. Life was busy, wife was pregnant, so we just left it alone and didn't burn any fires last winter, and didnt go into the basement much. The odor continued, sometimes stronger and sometimes weaker, I assumes varying with humidity. When the spring rains came, I noticed water in the firebox behind the wood stove. Its slowly gotten worse, to the point where it was enough water to spill out of the firebox onto the floor (luckily tiled).

A couple months ago, I called a chimney sweep to have the chimney/wood stove cleaned and inspected. Turns out the wood stove, which looks to be a converted coal stove, was not properly installed. The previous owner took a piece of flu pipe like you would have on a furnace, inverted it, and shoved it up the flue a foot or so. It was unclear when it had last been cleaned. The insulation around the pipe was soaking wet. The sweep said we had stage 3 creosote and need a deglazing. He took some pictures to show me, and broke off a couple pieces of creosote, maybe an inch thick. I stuck my head in there and saw what he saw. He sort of dismissed the smell, saying its was because the chimney was horribly dirty and wet. At that point, he called his supervisor, talked for a few minutes, and came back to me. He said they could do the deglazing and put the stove back, but that it was not properly installed and recommended that we not use it. I talked with him about putting in a liner, he gave me some ball park costs, talked with his boss and told me that they would do the deglazing free if we purchased a new stove and a proper stainless steal liner from them. I said we would think about it, he gave us his card and didn't charge us anything for the 45 minutes or so he spent at the house. Since then, I removed the stove (put it in the shed), and stuffed a piece of insulation the flue. The smell is till pretty strong, and water still comes down the flu (it is capped at the top). No water comes down the other chimney even though that one does not have a cap on it!


Soo....I have a three goals. First, stop the water from coming down the chimney. Second, stop the smoke odor. Third, have a usable wood stove.

Weather I call the original sweep or another, what do I need to ask him to do? Googling my way around, I see a lot of water issues being caused by crumbling/cracked crowns? So I need to get him up on the roof I assume? What typically causes the smoke smell, bad drafting? How does this get solved other than opening a window and freezing the basement and all my pipes? Will putting in a proper liner help the natural draft? Should I tear down the chimney..is that the only way to solve the problem? Help!
 
First step is finding where that water is comming from. Then would still put a nice stainless liner. They are nice and easy to clean and in my opinion they are a great thing to have they are pretty worry free.
 
I guess I assume the water problem will be relatively easy to diagnose and fix (maybe I'm wrong). What I do not want to do it pay to have a new liner installed and still have odor issues. Rough quote for the liner was $1600-1800 (basement to second story ~28 ft or so), then of course I would buy a new stove at the same time. I don't know if there is a drafting issue when burning a fire, as we have never burned one, but all summer long it stunk down there!
 
Well there could be more than one solution or cause to your problem. A chimney can leak from the walls, cap or whereever it connects to your house and goes through into the interior. You may need crown work as well a repointing. Yes, a proper liner would make just about any stove better, but wouldn't necessarily rectify the leak. I hope your sweep is knowlegeable and can fix your problems, make sure sure to get at least two or three quotes and see what each of them says about how they would fix the leak and what is causing it. Inspect it yourself, do you see crumbling or cracking in the mortar joints? If you can get to the crown are there any cracks? Don't forget the 4 to 1 rule if you use a ladder and have good footing.
 
The lower portion of the chimney looks to be in great condition. The mortar is hard and even, no cracks or crumbling. I am not a heights guy and will not be climbing up on the second story roof myself! haha makes it hard to really know whats going on up there....I wouldn't expect a liner to stop a leak either, its really there to help provide a proper draft for the wood stove, true?

If air were coming down the chimney when not in use and stinking the place up, what would lead me to believe that air wouldn't come down a liner and stink the place up too..?
 
yes you should fix the leak first. You should not have any smoke smell with a liner since it is a sealed pipe up the chimney. Buy a flex king pro and do it yourself. Kit was 600 if I remember.
 
A DIY kit wont work for me...I'm a chicken, not going up on the second story roof! haha

I dont see how a liner is a "sealed". It is open on the top, and the stove would be on the other end, and even with the air vents closed all the way, its not air tight...certainly would be better than today's situation though...just worried about spending money and not getting good results....

Ctd01 said:
yes you should fix the leak first. You should not have any smoke smell with a liner since it is a sealed pipe up the chimney. Buy a flex king pro and do it yourself. Kit was 600 if I remember.
 
Sounds like you're smelling the creosote. Deglazing would remove the creosote, so you wouldn't smell it anymore. Even with a liner, if you left the creosote there, you'll still smell it, because you have drafts down the chimney, unless you seal up the bottom. Could be a fire hazard too.

As far as the water, since you say there is a cap, there are two likely failure points. The roof, or the masonry. One needs a roofer to fix, the other needs a mason. If you don't want to go up on the roof, you need to hire someone else to go up there and figure out what's wrong. It's possible the cap could leak too.

If you did have the sweep clean the chimney and put in a liner, they would need to go up on the roof, and they could probably tell you where the water was getting in, and either fix it, or suggest someone who would do a good job.
 
You gota get that chimney deglazed before the liner. Seal up bottom of chimney. The pipe is sealed up because it is 1 long piece all the way to the top where the smoke comes out. If your chimney is clean and you have a liner and a good draft you should have no smoke odor.
 
If you are not going to consider DIY and/or the creosote is that glazed the first step is to get two more opinions / evaluations. IMO, many chimney sweeps are practically con-artists.
 
Fiziksgeek said:
A DIY kit wont work for me...I'm a chicken, not going up on the second story roof! haha

I dont see how a liner is a "sealed". It is open on the top, and the stove would be on the other end, and even with the air vents closed all the way, its not air tight

Certainly don't get up there if you aren't comfortable. Not a problem to call in experience. I won't get on a 2 story but will a 1 story. I guess in my mind, a 12ft drop is ok compared to a 25 ft drop. LOL

The liner "seals" the smoke inside it. It's always open at the cap. And in summer, I had a bird in the stove. "What's that noise????" A black bird behind the glass looking at me. If you feel strongly enough about critter infestation, you could tape a garbage bag over cap in summer. But I sure as hades would forget it on first light in the fall.
 
deglaze the creasote out of the chimney, a HUGE fire potiential. Line chimney-install stove. Done.

I had a chimney fire as a result of exactally what you just described. A horrible experience. Never felt more hopeless/helpless ever in my life. CLEAN THAT EXTREAMLY EXPLOSIVE CRESOTE OUT FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Dont worry guys, I will have the chimney cleaned fully before installing a liner.

Even if I installed a liner and that pour in insulation around it, I still don't quite understand why if I have air coming down the chimney now, without having a fire, why air wouldn't come down a liner...? You don't need to have smoke to have smoke odor, just creosote/soot, which as I understand, you can never completely clean off...? There will always be a little residue...and if air is traveling down the liner, it will pick up the odor....??
 
You're correct...doing all the right things (chimney cleaning, leak repairs, liner installation, block-off plate installation, and stove installation) will not change the fact that your house seems to want to pull air down the chimney into the basement. But it won't be nearly so bad after doing all the stuff above, and I'd bet you'll be hard pressed to notice it or smell anything. It might require occasionally preheating the flue when lighting a cold system, but you won't know that until it's all installed...and not a big deal in any case. You may even be able to identify what it is that's causing the pressure differential and mitigate/correct it. Often times, just cracking open a window (if your basement has windows) will get the stove off and running. First things first...chimney cleaning & leak repair. Rick
 
You must not have a good draft. My exhaust always has a draft. If I put a match in my thimble where my liner comes in the house it will suck the match out.
 
How airtight is your basement? Maybe the path of least resistance for your furnace and/or clothes dryer (?) to get fresh air is pulling it down the chimney. You could check the draft with those appliances off vs. on with an incense stick. If you have difficulty getting air into the basement buying a stove with an Outside Air Kit (OAK) may be an option.
 
With a wood stove, you close the door, and the vent holes are pretty small.

Interesting though. If your chimney pulls air down, then that's probably a symptom of even greater losses elsewhere. In other words, the upstairs in your house is acting like a chimney, and the basement chimney is providing the makeup air. You might want to see if you have openings around light fixtures, leaky windows or some other holes allowing your heat out.
 
Like rick said. Basements tend to have negative pressure, not always, but more so then elsewhere in the home.

Modern stoves are better 'sealed' then the older ones. During non burning season you can plug if you want, some leave a open box of baking soda in the firebox to keep the smell and dampness down.

I can tell you that i havent noticed any smell during the non burning months.

Best of luck to you.

Oh and not that its cost effective, but you could rent a scissor lift to take you up to the top of the chimney. They are almost as safe as an elevator.
 
The house was built in 1985, and I believe its OK as far as tightness and insulation. Not as good as a new construction, but not an old leaky house either. Even in the summer we have the smoke smell in the basement. I've heard of the "stack effect"in homes, so maybe that's my real problem.

Anyone know of a good mason/chimney repair company/person in the Oxford CT area? Hard to tell if the sweep we had in was just trying to get me to buy a new stove from his company or what. I do believe that we need a liner, and he said if we buy a stove and liner from them, they would do the cleaning/deglazing for free....I am sure they are making up the difference somewhere else...maybe not giving me as good a deal on the stove and liner as they could...
 
Here are some pics, low quality, but better than nothing!

The firebox is 36"wide at the front, 30" wide at the back, 25" deep, and 29" high. The hearth is 60" long and 18" deep, slate I think. Its easy to see the water staining, and the rust spot near the middle is where the old stove used to sit.


Looking up the flue, it the damper door has been removed. The hole is a long rectangle. It was stuffed with insulation, and when i pulled it out to take this pic, cold air just rushed down...


On the outside (really sorry for the pic quality) there is no ash clean out. Its 60" wide until about 7 or 8 feet, then thins down to about half that width. The flu cap is rectangular, guessing 8x12 or so...but just a guess...
 

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If the dealer is willing to do a complementary cleaning ot may not be a bad deal. Just make sure to shop around for stove prices, look on Ebay for complete liner kits to check for prices. Often times dealers charge a heck of a lot for liners compared to the on line prices. Regardless of what you decide to do I'd get a professional mason with reputable name to look at the chimney and tell you where the water is coming from. A mason built it, they should be able to tell you where the problem is coming from. If your sweep can tell you where the water is coming from, it may be a plus on their pros and cons list. Tough to trust that something is done when you can't see it for your self.
Good luck
 
I just had a mason out to look at the chimney. Definitely a crown issue, and the flashing needs a little touch up as well. He recommended building 4 brick pillars and putting a slab of bluestone across the top with a spark arester/critter screen underneath. Is this a better way to to do thing vs the traditional crown and stainless cap/critter screen?? I like the idea, it will match the house well since we have some bluestone steps and walkways around the property. I will have the formal quote on Monday. Also looking for another mason to get a second opinion and quote.

He also confirmed that the flu is 12x12.

I think the wife and I will try and go shopping for a new stove and liner. I think the best way to go would be a liner, likely 6", but matched to the stove we buy, and the pour in insulation to fill the space between the liner and the flu. we'll get the chimney clean first of course!!
My wife grew up with a soapstone stove in her parents two story sun room, so a Hearthstone dealer is on our list of places to stop. I am interested in Jotul, and I have heard very few problems with them. Another other brands I should seriously consider??? Or conversely, any stove brands I should absolutely stay away from?
 
Well..
Since you asked ..don't buy a cat stove!
Unless you want long controllable burn times with somewhat even heat through the cycle.
 
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