My Jotul F 500

Green Energy said:

mikepinto65 said:

Green Energy said:

use 22" rather than shorter in order to fill out the firebox

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That might be best for you, however I would highly recommend staying in the 18"-20" length range. At 22" you seriously run the risk of logs not fitting properly when you have a nice coal bed. Also, not sure what others are doing, but I like my splits at 3.5"-4.5" thick. They load and burn the burn the best for me, and they tend to season the best in 12 months.

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Mike and Jake,

Yes, you're right about the 18"-20" v 22". Ash and coals build up can make it difficult to get the full length splits in. My point is that is it important to pack the firebox.

On the burn time issue, last night while I was thinking about this thread, I refilled the stove about an hour before I turned in, and then topped it off so that it was pretty packed right before I went to bed, all red oak. Seven hours latter, when I got up, I had a healthy bed of coals with some chunks of coaled splits still left, with the stove top temp 250 F. On the morning load, I had it flaming so well that I could turn the air down to 1/2 after 10 minutes, and temp was up to 450 F within 20 minutes.

I certainly could of had plenty of coals after 8 hrs if I had left it go another hour. One caveat is that loading the stove when its real hot like I did to pack the stove mid cycle, one has to be careful not to hit the secondary air tubes cuz they dent/bend/tweek very easy when they are real hot. On my old stove, the cat sat in a cast iron chamber. I can't believe I used to use splits to hammer in splits so I could get the door closed. That's another reason for the longer burns, I had a different definition on "packed" with my old stove. I never force splits into the Oslo that do not easily fit.

With the Olso and non-cat stove, you have to get used to the cycles more than the even output that you get from a cat stove. However, the cast iron weight of the Oslo provides some thermal inertia that keeps the cycle from being more dramatic.

Sean

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True . . . both on the point being that you do want to use the firebox space and not put in all 14 inchers if you're looking for a long burn.

Also true about the cast iron allowing you to have less of a thermal swing in temps once you're up and running . . . I noticed that in the first year when folks were talking about the dip in temps as you went through the cycles . . . I rarely see much of a difference in temps (once the stove is going) . . . most likely due to the thermal mass.

bjkjoseph said:

stoves with the ash drawer seem to burn faster..some peole on here let that drawer fill up and use a shovel instead.

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Maybe if the gasket on the ash pan drawer needs replacing . . . or if folks are completely cleaning out the ashes every day . . . but otherwise I would argue that the ash pan drawer doesn't play as much of a factor as maintaining approximately 1-2 inches of ash in the firebox . . . too much or too little ash can affect things . . . but I have an ash pan and unload it twice a week and get decent burn times -- meaning I can load up at 9:30 a.m. and typically have enough coals for an easy restart at 4:30-5 a.m. the next morning.

Hanko said:

I put things in and burn things up. dont over think it.

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Really?

Green Energy said:

When refilling a stove before turning in, if the stove hasn't cycled back, but there is still a good fire going. Be careful to not put splits in that are too small, or else you might find the stove going over 650. I like to put in my big splits at that time as they will not burn as fast as the small splits.

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I never do that - as in I never interrupt a burn cycle by adding more wood when secondaries are still going. I seem to remember (was it BB or FJ?) who did this and it caused an overfire. Do you have any idea what temps get up to when you do this?

Shari said:

Green Energy said:

When refilling a stove before turning in, if the stove hasn't cycled back, but there is still a good fire going. Be careful to not put splits in that are too small, or else you might find the stove going over 650. I like to put in my big splits at that time as they will not burn as fast as the small splits.

Click to expand...

I never do that - as in I never interrupt a burn cycle by adding more wood when secondaries are still going. I seem to remember (was it BB or FJ?) who did this and it caused an overfire. Do you have any idea what temps get up to when you do this?

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Yes, adding fuel to a mid cycle fire certainly has risks. Last year, I found that when I did this with 3 or 4" splits that the stove when to 650 F. A couple of times I had shoved an aluminum foil ball into the secondary air intake to keep the stove from getting hotter.

A couple of nights ago, I think it was only an hour into the cycle and the stove cruising at 450 F. I wanted to turn in and thought I could top off the stove if I used a big enough split. There was room for me to add a 6 " split and a second split, probably around 4", so that it filled out the load in the stove. The temperatures did not rise beyond 500 F or so. I guess I should not advice other folks to do this as it is risky if the fire is peaking and additional fuel is added. However, I did find that if by being careful, there is a way to top off the stove by putting in large enough splits so that they don't provide the fire too much access to the fuel all at once. Also, I had the fire on the low side, around 450, rather than pushing 600.

Green Energy said:

I wanted to turn in and thought I could top off the stove if I used a big enough split. There was room for me to add a 6 " split and a second split, probably around 4", so that it filled out the load in the stove. The temperatures did not rise beyond 500 F or so. I guess I should not advice other folks to do this as it is risky if the fire is peaking and additional fuel is added. However, I did find that if by being careful, there is a way to top off the stove by putting in large enough splits so that they don't provide the fire too much access to the fuel all at once. Also, I had the fire on the low side, around 450, rather than pushing 600.

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My question remains: Since you 'turned in', how do you know how hot the stove got?

You second statement: "I guess I should not advice other folks to do this as it is risky.." seems to be right on.

Shari said:

Green Energy said:

I wanted to turn in and thought I could top off the stove if I used a big enough split. There was room for me to add a 6 " split and a second split, probably around 4", so that it filled out the load in the stove. The temperatures did not rise beyond 500 F or so. I guess I should not advice other folks to do this as it is risky if the fire is peaking and additional fuel is added. However, I did find that if by being careful, there is a way to top off the stove by putting in large enough splits so that they don't provide the fire too much access to the fuel all at once. Also, I had the fire on the low side, around 450, rather than pushing 600.

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My question remains: Since you 'turned in', how do you know how hot the stove got?You second statement: "I guess I should not advice other folks to do this as it is risky.." seems to be right on.

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Not meaning to interupt this thread but I have a solution to your question others may try. I put a small peice of tinfoil on the right side of the stove top thermometer needle. As the temp climbs the tinfoil will be pushed towards the hottest side untill the temp falls and the themometer needle retracts, leaving the tinfoil in the grove where the highest temp was reached whilst you were away from the stove. Works everytime,I can"t take credit for it due to the fact I read about this on the forums. Just fold a peice of foil about 1/2 long and put a bend in the middle that will let it slip into the grove of the thermometer. Kinda like a "V" shape just bend the "wings" down. Good luck. TY

After a couple minutes from adding the large split, I had to open the primary air to 1/2 as the big split had the effect of interrupting the heat of the secondaries. I wanted to make sure I got the stove back to cruising. I knew it would not take long to get it back to good secondaries. After 3-5 minutes, things seemed to be cooking and I shut down the air, watched it for another five minutes, and the secondaries were stable and not going crazy (e.g., no bowels of hell). Went up to get myself changed and ready for the night. Came down after another 5-10 minutes to check to make sure that everything was good, and yep, stove was cruising, good secondaries, no bowels of hell, and stove top was at 500 F.

This reminds me that I need to make a little aluminium indicator to put over the mag thermometer to stay where the thermometer max's out at. But I am confident that I was good that night.

Shari, I have experienced exactly what BB and Jake spoke of, when I topped off my stove when it was 550 or 600, and I fit in some splits on top of it. (That is the way I used to burn my old stove, threw in wood whenever I wanted and never thought anything of it.) Sometimes I don't have my cycle timed perfectly, or I stay up longer than I was planning, and I figured that I would try a little intuition to see how I could have more coals in the morning and sleep in latter.

I think the reasons this worked out OK was:

1. Before, adding the split, I kept my fire on the lower end of the cruising scale, about 450. The top part was coaling but the whole fire box was not coaling. (This cycle was bordering on a restart as the amount of coals had dwindled).
2. I had used kindling on top that was pretty much consumed and left space for the large split that I added.
3. The large split has enough mass to interrupt the secondaries enough so that it wasn't just engulfed, but the outside caught on more orderly.

Your right, the orthodox, recommended method is to burn in cycles, and not to add fuel mid-cycle. But I thought I would experiment to see if I could do this so that I have a full load when I turn in. It worked out well for me and I will probably do this some more this winter.

I guess I'm in danger of being labeled a heretic?

Green Energy said:

I guess I'm in danger of being labeled a heretic?

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Heretic? Depends what your definition of heretic is. All I'm saying is you are interrupting the 'normal' cycle your stove's specified burn cycle. The specs are manufacturer tested and approved. Why would you go against manufacturer specs and then 'turn in'?

In our house, we go by the specs, burn in cycles and don't 'turn in' until temps are either stabilized for 30 minutes (or more) or stove top temps are dropping.

Shari,

Obviously, operating the stove in cycles is the safest way to operate, no argument here. For me, there are times that I want to get the longest burn time I can. My experiment with putting a large split in at the time that I did worked fine a couple days ago. There is some risk involved that I knowingly accepted and took the precautions that I thought were prudent to make sure that those risks did not materialize. And I knew what to do in case they did materialize. Because of the limited fire box size, I will probably try this again under the right conditions.

For anyone reading this, I would strongly advice against adding fuel to a non-cat stove when it is going petal to the metal, e.g., for an Oslo, that would be a stove top temp of above 550 or so (the full load is approaching fully engulfed).

As far as manufacturer specs go, I'm not cutting corners on clearances or burning something other than wood, rather I view it more as improvising to get a longer burn time. There is some art involved in wood burning.

Sean

Shari said:

Green Energy said:

When refilling a stove before turning in, if the stove hasn't cycled back, but there is still a good fire going. Be careful to not put splits in that are too small, or else you might find the stove going over 650. I like to put in my big splits at that time as they will not burn as fast as the small splits.

Click to expand...

I never do that - as in I never interrupt a burn cycle by adding more wood when secondaries are still going. I seem to remember (was it BB or FJ?) who did this and it caused an overfire. Do you have any idea what temps get up to when you do this?

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Not an overfire . . . but it was going that way fast . . . definitely one of my "Ah ha" moments . . . well maybe it was more like an "Oh s%$#!" moment.

While I usually try not to interfere with a cycle, I've many times put splits on a load that wasn't burned completely through. There are many people on this forum who burn to a science, which is fine, but a little common sense goes a long way too. If it's colder than usual out and the house is chilly, throw a few more splits on sooner than you usually would. Just know your stove and what it can handle. I have never had a problem throwing an extra log or two on during a cycle in colder weather. The house should be comfortable for you, thats why the stoves there. Obviously dont throw wood on a 600 degree fire and go to bed though.

webby3650 said:

victorytea said:

Master, in other words, you sweep your pipe and then remove the plate and clean the creosote? Or do you remove the plate and then sweep your pipe? I can't believe this stove doesn't have an external lever for aand internal damper or baffle. Keep the info coming- you guys are being really helpful!! Thanks, Paul

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You would want to sweep it before taking anything loose. According to our Jotul rep. "they do not reccommend leaving the bolts loose, they should be re-installed after cleaning." If you have a slip section in your pipe, it would be easier to pull the pipe up. It is not real common for stoves to have a bypass damper, other than cat stoves, not many have a bypass. Do you clean out the ashes very often? I can tell a big difference in burn times after I clean out the stove.

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Ummm, plenty of non-cat stoves have a bypass. I am actually curious as to why most don't have one. It is a great way to get a fresh load of wood going quickly. It only takes a minute or two. AND you can sweep your chimney right into the stove!!

As for the burn time, I get 7-8 hours with some coals left int he morning in my Castine. You should be able to get that or more in that stove. Sure I need some small splits to help the fire int he morning but I have them. The 2 main factors are wood type and size of splits - as well as stuffing that firebox tightly like doing a puzzle.

Green Energy said:

Shari said:

Green Energy said:

When refilling a stove before turning in, if the stove hasn't cycled back, but there is still a good fire going. Be careful to not put splits in that are too small, or else you might find the stove going over 650. I like to put in my big splits at that time as they will not burn as fast as the small splits.

Click to expand...

I never do that - as in I never interrupt a burn cycle by adding more wood when secondaries are still going. I seem to remember (was it BB or FJ?) who did this and it caused an overfire. Do you have any idea what temps get up to when you do this?

Click to expand...

Yes, adding fuel to a mid cycle fire certainly has risks. Last year, I found that when I did this with 3 or 4" splits that the stove when to 650 F. A couple of times I had shoved an aluminum foil ball into the secondary air intake to keep the stove from getting hotter.

A couple of nights ago, I think it was only an hour into the cycle and the stove cruising at 450 F. I wanted to turn in and thought I could top off the stove if I used a big enough split. There was room for me to add a 6 " split and a second split, probably around 4", so that it filled out the load in the stove. The temperatures did not rise beyond 500 F or so. I guess I should not advice other folks to do this as it is risky if the fire is peaking and additional fuel is added. However, I did find that if by being careful, there is a way to top off the stove by putting in large enough splits so that they don't provide the fire too much access to the fuel all at once. Also, I had the fire on the low side, around 450, rather than pushing 600.

Click to expand...

Are you folks really that worried about the stove hitting 600-650? My Castine heads over 650-700 regularly when cranking away and it is just fine. The 500 manual says that 400-600 is the most efficient range. I am pretty confident that this stove can handle 800-850 without a worry in the world much like my Olympic..

Shari said:

Green Energy said:

I guess I'm in danger of being labeled a heretic?

Click to expand...

Heretic? Depends what your definition of heretic is. All I'm saying is you are interrupting the 'normal' cycle your stove's specified burn cycle. The specs are manufacturer tested and approved. Why would you go against manufacturer specs and then 'turn in'?

In our house, we go by the specs, burn in cycles and don't 'turn in' until temps are either stabilized for 30 minutes (or more) or stove top temps are dropping.

Click to expand...

This is not a chemical reaction that we need to follow a specific procedure here is it? I mean, it is burning wood. If for some reason I stayed up later than planned, i would not hesitate to open that stove, add wood and get it to where I needed it before shutting it down. I am not just going to leave it for an hour and then just go to bed all because it was in the middle of a burn cycle. well, maybe in the spring or fall but not in the dead of winter when i need heat...

I think sharis point (correct if wrong) was that at either end of the cycle, theres either not enough heat or risk of an overfire. Im sure all can make the connection its safer to let the stove finish and put on a sweater if you must.

However, im guily too. No i dont throw something on at 500 or whatever, but near the end when i have a large coal bed, ill add some wood. Sometimes its to try and burn the bed down a bit. Others i goof, shove too much in and get stuck with mediocre output for a few hours, and end up with an even larger coal bed.

Best to plan the loads out, not a science (debatable) but youll still need a brain to do safetly.

OP, i rear vented my oslo, to a 'T' then straightish up. Remove bottom cap sweep into bag. Cleaning above baffle means i take off the T.

There is danger involved with adding fuel when the stove is peaking. FF Jake described this last year. I also wrote about my experience. In my situation, my stove seemed to be running away, temps rapidly increased from 600 to 700 F. It was only my second season and I did not want to risk overheating, so I shoved a ball of aluminum foil into the secondary air intake (bottom of the stove, in the back, 3" round hole). The rise stopped fairly quickly at 700 F, and I was relieved that it did. It may be that it wasn't going to go much above 700 F if I left it alone, or it may be that going above 700 to 800 is not as critical as I fear. I just did not want to take the chance.

So with all this in mind, I do find the size of the firebox, combined with an inability to add wood mid cycle, can be difficult when I want sustained burn time. So as I posted above, I did add a big split when the stove was about an hour into the cycle. THe stove top was on the low end at 400 F, and the split was large enough that I did not think I would experience the above situation. It worked out fine, but would not want a person trying this (after reading my post) without being aware of the risk and understanding what they are doing.

It is good to time and/or size the cycles so as to not have to add wood during peak temp. I will not be adding any fuel at peak time if my stove is close to 600 F. But I may do this when the stove is at 350 - 400 F by choosing larger splits (i.e., 6"). The couple times that I have done this, I actually have to open up the primary air to 1/2 or so for a few minutes to make sure I get good secondaries. Then I shut down the air and I did get a bump up in temperature, but only to 450 - 500 F or so. I would not do this with 3" splits.

Risking being labeled a heretic.

CTwoodburner said:

Green Energy said:

Shari said:

Green Energy said:

When refilling a stove before turning in, if the stove hasn't cycled back, but there is still a good fire going. Be careful to not put splits in that are too small, or else you might find the stove going over 650. I like to put in my big splits at that time as they will not burn as fast as the small splits.

Click to expand...

I never do that - as in I never interrupt a burn cycle by adding more wood when secondaries are still going. I seem to remember (was it BB or FJ?) who did this and it caused an overfire. Do you have any idea what temps get up to when you do this?

Click to expand...

Yes, adding fuel to a mid cycle fire certainly has risks. Last year, I found that when I did this with 3 or 4" splits that the stove when to 650 F. A couple of times I had shoved an aluminum foil ball into the secondary air intake to keep the stove from getting hotter.

A couple of nights ago, I think it was only an hour into the cycle and the stove cruising at 450 F. I wanted to turn in and thought I could top off the stove if I used a big enough split. There was room for me to add a 6 " split and a second split, probably around 4", so that it filled out the load in the stove. The temperatures did not rise beyond 500 F or so. I guess I should not advice other folks to do this as it is risky if the fire is peaking and additional fuel is added. However, I did find that if by being careful, there is a way to top off the stove by putting in large enough splits so that they don't provide the fire too much access to the fuel all at once. Also, I had the fire on the low side, around 450, rather than pushing 600.

Click to expand...

Are you folks really that worried about the stove hitting 600-650? My Castine heads over 650-700 regularly when cranking away and it is just fine. The 500 manual says that 400-600 is the most efficient range. I am pretty confident that this stove can handle 800-850 without a worry in the world much like my Olympic..

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600 or 650 degrees . . . no worries . . . when it gets higher than 700 I get nervous.

Stump_Branch said:

I think sharis point (correct if wrong) was that at either end of the cycle, theres either not enough heat or risk of an overfire. Im sure all can make the connection its safer to let the stove finish and put on a sweater if you must.

However, im guily too. No i dont throw something on at 500 or whatever, but near the end when i have a large coal bed, ill add some wood. Sometimes its to try and burn the bed down a bit. Others i goof, shove too much in and get stuck with mediocre output for a few hours, and end up with an even larger coal bed.

Best to plan the loads out, not a science (debatable) but youll still need a brain to do safetly.

OP, i rear vented my oslo, to a 'T' then straightish up. Remove bottom cap sweep into bag. Cleaning above baffle means i take off the T.

Click to expand...

Put on a sweater? Heck no . . . I've never let the temps get down that much if I'm up and about . . . heck, I routinely lounge around the house wearing only a T-shirt and boxers most of the winter. I load the stove up well before the temps are starting to reach the point where I think I should put on some clothes.

Aww, jake keep yer pants on...errr off?

I can agree, i like being sweaterless in my house all the same. It was a poor attempt at metaphoric humor.

I was just trying to say, its better to let the stove get further along in the bell curve of the cycle, stovetop cool down etc., than to damage a nice well made expensive stove. Let alone something worse like a fire elsewhere outside of the stove.

If i couldnt let the stove run through the burn and stay warm, then im pushing it too hard, its not big enough for my needs, or just a junky stove and ill pitch it to the curb. (craigslist count as a 'curb'?)

I love the oslo, my first venture into what a real stove can do. I guess id just hate to see one go bust because of something simple like a reloading error is all.

Stump_Branch said:

Aww, jake keep yer pants on...errr off?

I can agree, i like being sweaterless in my house all the same. It was a poor attempt at metaphoric humor.

I was just trying to say, its better to let the stove get further along in the bell curve of the cycle, stovetop cool down etc., than to damage a nice well made expensive stove. Let alone something worse like a fire elsewhere outside of the stove.

If i couldnt let the stove run through the burn and stay warm, then im pushing it too hard, its not big enough for my needs, or just a junky stove and ill pitch it to the curb. (craigslist count as a 'curb'?)

I love the oslo, my first venture into what a real stove can do. I guess id just hate to see one go bust because of something simple like a reloading error is all.

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Gotta agree . . . especially with the sentence in bold type.