Vermont Castings Montpelier insert

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KaptJaq

Minister of Fire
Jan 31, 2011
718
Long Island, NY
Hi Vermont Castings Montpelier insert owners...

The Montpelier has been on the market since the fall of 2008 but I rarely see them mentioned here. That could be a good thing or a bad one. Either they are great inserts so nobody has any problems with them OR they are soooo bad nobody wants to talk about it. How has your experience been?

I installed mine in January, 2010. Internal masonry fireplace with a 15 foot 6" SS lined clay flue. I use it to heat my 1,800 sq ft main floor. It does well in the LI,NY climate. Without pushing, it keeps the 1,000 sq ft open floor plan in front of the unit in the low 70's, the bedrooms behind it in the mid to upper 60's. When it gets really cold we light the coal stove downstairs to help.

The only real problem I had with the unit was the bearings on the fan fried the first season. They were permanently lubricated sealed bearings that may not have been oiled during assembly. VC authorized a replacement with no hassle.

Like most new wood burners I had a learning curve both with the stove settings and "seasoned" wood. By fall of 2010 I was getting pretty good with the stove and my wood had been css for over a year. Now I usually have fairly clean glass (just a little gray fly ash that I wipe off once or twice a week) and easy "overnight burns". I usually pack the stove about 11PM and get up to re-load about 6 AM (have to warm the house before the boss gets up). In the morning I have a good bed of coals and can easily start a new fire with some small splits on the bottom and some medium ones on top.

I clean the flue twice a year getting a cup or two of dry black dust each time. Shoulder season I check the screen on the cap frequently.

One of my neighbors liked my unit enough that he just bought one for himself. I helped him install it and noticed that over the last two years VC has updated a few components (fan assembly, outer skin, etc) but all were minor changes. The new fan did not need any tweaking to quiet it down, it was great right out of the box.

I'm happy with my unit, are you?

KaptJaq
 
Hey Jaq - We installed in October '08. Cape Cod with fully lined exterior clay lined chimney. Finally bought an IR thermometer this week to help me see whats 'really' going on with the stove. The Rutland stuck in the hot air vent was worthless. I quickly learned that I need to keep that blower off until I'm reading 300° or so, then the unit really performs. Was wearing shorts in the livingroom last night, stove was cruising about 400.

I do get a bit more 'coffee grounds' when I clean the flue, but thats probably due to the exterior chimney. I plan to clean this weekend. Going forward, it will be interesting to see how letting the unit heat up will affect the amount of buildup.

I recently cleaned the fan for the first time. Before I re-installed it, I tested it by bypassing the snap-disc. It made a ton of noise. A couple small drops of 3 in1 oil took care of that (much to the chagrin of a few Hearth.com members). It runs quiet, and I am actually running at slower speeds to help keep the temps up. Sounds counter-intuitive, but the room is toasty!

Right now the handle squeaks a bit - I need to get some graphite for it.

The only 'complaint' is that the small 1.5 cu' firebox makes loading for the overnight a bit of a challenge, but I've learned to split a bit on the fine side.

Gabe
 
My Montpelier was installed November 2010. I'm absolutely in love with how the stove looks, performance wise I don't think I'm at it's full potential. A hard first year with minimal dry wood. My wood supply is much better this year but I still can't seem to get the heat out of it. I find I struggle to heat an 1100 sf floor plan above low 60's (64 on a mild day with the stove going from early morning). I'll have to try and keep the fan off until it hits the 300 mark. Any input on how I should run the stove? I usually wait until the wood is completely engulfed in flames, then turn the air down 1/2 way. About 15 - 20 min later I turn it down completely. Would leaving the air cracked get more heat out of the stove? I also run the fan on high to get more heat into the room. Am I hindering myself by cooling the stove down to much by doing this?

I'm also at a loss on how to take the fan out. Does it come out of the front of the unit or do I access it from under the plate inside the stove? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
I've never run the fan past the 3 o'clock position. Now I'm running it at 6 or 5 o'clock.
This stove takes a while to heat up. After a half-hour from a cold start, the blower may kick on, but the IR thermometer would show barely 200° above the door, too soon to be pulling heat off it.
I keep it off, even after a reload.

Fan is simple. From memory:

You'll be taking the shelf/fan door assembly off. Open the fan doors. You'll see 2 black screws in either corner. Remove these and the whole bottom assembly will come off.
After that, I think its 2 or 4 screws that hold the fan in. Remove these, then disconnect the 2 wires to the snap-disc. this will free the unit from the stove.
With the fan out, uncrew the screens from the ends.
The fans are held in with spring clamps. Needle-nose pliers remove them. You should be able to pull the fans off their spindles easily.
I rinsed mine in the sink (they were plastic back in '08' )
Installation is reverse.

It wasn't bad overall. Hope this helps.

Gabe
 
Thanks Gabe! I'll try pulling the fan and cleaning this weekend. It is noticeably louder than last year so I'm thinking it needs a good cleaning.
 
Hey briv,

What kind of wood are you burning and what does your flue look like? Overnight I burn 2 year css red oak, during the day mostly 1 year css silver maple. The stove is very sensitive to moisture in the wood. If my moisture meter reads over 22% I have a hard time getting a lot of heat out of it, the initial warm-up takes a long time and consumes a lot of fuel. I also notice that it reacts quickly to changes in draft. My house is pretty tight. If the clothes dryer and/or the kitchen exhaust fan are running I have a hard time getting the secondaries going.

Do you have an internal or external chimney? Insulated liner? Block-off plate or the smoke shelf stuffed roxul?

The only time I run my fan on high is when I am burning a very hot fire trying to heat the room quickly. I'm usually in the room when I let it get that hot. For my overnight and long controlled burns the fan is usually about half way. Less air moving but much warmer...

KaptJaq
 
Fod01 said:
Fan is simple. From memory:

You'll be taking the shelf/fan door assembly off. Open the fan doors. You'll see 2 black screws in either corner. Remove these and the whole bottom assembly will come off.
After that, I think its 2 or 4 screws that hold the fan in. Remove these, then disconnect the 2 wires to the snap-disc. this will free the unit from the stove.
With the fan out, uncrew the screens from the ends.
The fans are held in with spring clamps. Needle-nose pliers remove them. You should be able to pull the fans off their spindles easily.
I rinsed mine in the sink (they were plastic back in '08' )
Installation is reverse.

It wasn't bad overall. Hope this helps.

Gabe

On the earlier units the fan assembly is held in with two screws and the snap disk is a separate piece connected by two wires and held to the stove with two screws. On the newer units the fan assembly is held in with 4 screws and the snap disk is part of the fan assembly. The four screw mount prevents the fan from shifting/twisting and so prevents a lot of the rattles and hum early users complained about.

KaptJaq
 
We love ours so far. It was installed late last February. I too, am learning to get the most out of it. Any tips or advice are appreciated...always good info here!
 
stove works pretty well, a sharp looking insert. Just run it hot, and I MEAN HOT, for about 30 minutes before you try closing off the air to prolong a burn. It takes a bit to get all that refractory heated up properly inside to promote a good 2ndry combustion. Biggest initial complaint I get from folks who purchase this unit is the glass getting dirty, and that is usually the result of not getting it all up to proper temp before shutting it down. After a lesson in proper burning, they are usually able to resolve the issue by getting it up to proper temp before shutting it down for a long burn. The Exhaust in that thing not only goes around the baffle, but also does a 2nd turn around a cast iron U in front of the flue outlet, so if you are not heating up properly, the secondary and airwash is not getting a proper burn off of the smoke/gasses since they have a little longer residence time around the baffle and the glass because of this design.
 
I did some experimenting this weekend. I pulled the blower out and cleaned it all up, it wasn't too dirty but I think it helped a little. I tried getting the temp up to approximately 300 (measured with an IR Thermo directly above the arch of the door) and then turned on the fan. It helped A LOT. Secondaries also seemed to be cruising much better after I did that and the glass was not as dirty. A little more babysitting on my part but definitely worth it.

I'm not sure what my moisture % is on my wood. It's a stack of mostly birch that's been c/s/s since early spring 2010 and since it's either that or 1 year c/s/s oak, I'm using the birch. I think I'll be in good shape next year when I move on to the oak pile as I tried a few small chunks of the oak and things went great, hot fire good secondaries.

My house it not air tight by any means so I don't have a problem with reversing the draft when appliances fire up.

Thanks for the advice everyone. Happy burnings!
 
You're welcome, and thanks KaptJaq for starting up this thread. The Montpelier is really a good stove, but doesn't get a lot of press.

Gabe
 
Ours was installed Oct. 2009. This year I have the best wood yet. Oak CSS for two years. What a difference the wood makes. I too get the glass dirty when I shut down to soon. I can tell I'm running hot enough when all the bricks are as clean as when they were new. Had no problem with the fan after tweeking it a little when it was new. Lately I have been running the fan at about 6 o:clock and the air around 3/4 closed. It will keep this old 1913 house pretty warm. When it gets real cold (as in tonight) I run the 602 in the kitchen also. With both running the whole house is warm. Never checked how hot it is running (don't have an infer red therm.) I just judge on how clean the glass is and the color of the bricks. We really like the insert, the last two nights loaded at 12pm and have enough coals left to restart around 6:30 am and the blower is still going. The only thing I don't like is I have to clean the screens on the blowers a lot. I know what the problem is though, three cats and two dogs. One of the cats is sacked out in front all the time with one of the dogs. I'm think about adding extra screening on the magnectic doors to help with the fur thing.
Three of my neighbors have inserts, they may get more heat out of thiers. Each one of theirs sticks out into the room. But they all like the looks of ours with the big glass and the flush mount. i know that hurts the heat out put.
 
Had my first big fire yesterday. 3 Envi logs going, intake air set to the lowest (right) and the blower on medium-low. The temperature of the cast iron top of the door got up to 540F! The first floor of our 2 story 1800sq ft colonial was a toasty 80F (mid 30's outside).

Even with these temps, I haven't experienced any significant paint curing/outgassing. Must be they use "better" paint on the newer stoves.
 
Hi fellow Montpelier owners,
I just got mine this year. I don't know much, but this site has been helping a lot. I am curious, why do I have to wait to turn on the blower? It turns on automatically when the thermostat reaches a certain degree. As soon as it goes on warm air comes out. Does the blower also serve another purpose? I am also getting a lot of creosote. I have to clean it every few days. In the lower right corner of the glass it gets bad. Any info you can give would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Chris
 
Hello cc,

As far as I know you do not have to wait to turn on the blower. A thermal switch will automatically activate the fan when the stove is hot enough to support a clean burn and de-activate the fan when the stove cools. You should stop the fan when you open the door. There are two reasons for this. First the running fan creates a venturi effect along the top edge of the door sucking the exhaust gasses (and any smoke) into the house. The second reason is that if hot embers fall from the firebox in front of the fan inlets those hot embers will go with the air flow and blow out the top vents at you or into your room.

A lot of Montpelier owners have commented on the build-up on the hinge side of the door. What I have noticed is when I start a fire I have the door slightly cracked for the first few minutes. The air swirling in the crack goes around the fire and the smoke hits the far side of the door before it goes out the exhaust. If my wood is not dry and the glass is still cold I can see a small amount of moisture form on the door glass near the hinge. The particulate in the smoke clings to this moisture and forms creosote.

When burning good dry wood there is nothing but a very fine gray ash on the glass that I wipe off every few days with a dry cotton cloth. How dry is your wood? Do you have a moisture meter?

The problem with this and most other inserts is that there is no good place to take stove temperatures. The spot you describe is good for relative heat levels but does not accurately give you a stove top reading. The air that flows over the glass, the "air wash", goes right behind this point and cools it somewhat. The highest temperatures I have seen are when I have the surround off and I can get a reading from the cast-iron just behind the outlet. I'm not pulling the surround every time I want to check so I use the top/center of the door arch for relative reference temps.

KaptJaq
 
KaptJaq said:
Hello cc,

As far as I know you do not have to wait to turn on the blower. A thermal switch will automatically activate the fan when the stove is hot enough to support a clean burn and de-activate the fan when the stove cools. You should stop the fan when you open the door. There are two reasons for this. First the running fan creates a venturi effect along the top edge of the door sucking the exhaust gasses (and any smoke) into the house. The second reason is that if hot embers fall from the firebox in front of the fan inlets those hot embers will go with the air flow and blow out the top vents at you or into your room.

A lot of Montpelier owners have commented on the build-up on the hinge side of the door. What I have noticed is when I start a fire I have the door slightly cracked for the first few minutes. The air swirling in the crack goes around the fire and the smoke hits the far side of the door before it goes out the exhaust. If my wood is not dry and the glass is still cold I can see a small amount of moisture form on the door glass near the hinge. The particulate in the smoke clings to this moisture and forms creosote.

When burning good dry wood there is nothing but a very fine gray ash on the glass that I wipe off every few days with a dry cotton cloth. How dry is your wood? Do you have a moisture meter?

The problem with this and most other inserts is that there is no good place to take stove temperatures. The spot you describe is good for relative heat levels but does not accurately give you a stove top reading. The air that flows over the glass, the "air wash", goes right behind this point and cools it somewhat. The highest temperatures I have seen are when I have the surround off and I can get a reading from the cast-iron just behind the outlet. I'm not pulling the surround every time I want to check so I use the top/center of the door arch for relative reference temps.

Kaptjaq,
I noticed some people saying that they keep the blower on low. Does using the blower at a higher speed cause the stove to cool? At night when I fill it up should I keep the blower on medium to low to keep it going longer? Also, I put a dollar bill by the handle and closed the door. I was able to pull the dollar out without too much trouble. I couldn't do that on the other side by the hinge. Do you think that means it is too loose?
Thanks,
Chris



KaptJaq
 
cc said:
cc said:
Kaptjaq,
I noticed some people saying that they keep the blower on low. Does using the blower at a higher speed cause the stove to cool? At night when I fill it up should I keep the blower on medium to low to keep it going longer? Also, I put a dollar bill by the handle and closed the door. I was able to pull the dollar out without too much trouble. I couldn't do that on the other side by the hinge. Do you think that means it is too loose?
Thanks,
Chris

Chris,

I usually keep the blower about half way during normal burns. That speed seems to get the most heat out of the stove for the longest time. When I want to heat the room quickly I start a hot fire with smaller splits, a little more air, and run the fan on high. The fire does not last too long but gets some heat in the room quickly. Usually when I burn it that hot I like to stay close by to keep an eye on it.

If the dollar bill is slipping out easily on the handle side of the door you can adjust the latch screw to tighten it. Look at your user manual to see how. If you don't have the manual it is online on the Vermont Castings website.

KaptJaq
 
SolarBrian said:
Had my first big fire yesterday. 3 Envi logs going, intake air set to the lowest (right) and the blower on medium-low. The temperature of the cast iron top of the door got up to 540F! The first floor of our 2 story 1800sq ft colonial was a toasty 80F (mid 30's outside).

Even with these temps, I haven't experienced any significant paint curing/outgassing. Must be they use "better" paint on the newer stoves.

SolarBrian,
How do you like the Envi blocks? I am thinking about picking up a pallet. Are you using the Envi Blocks or Envi 8s? I think I would burn these at night if they would last about 8 hours. How many does it take to fill up the Montpelier?
Thanks,
Chris
 
Rake the coals forward.
Load the biggest split/ splits you have tight to the rear wall, on top of each other if you can.
Fill the firebox with however many more splits you can.

Thats it. No real magic here. 1.5 cu' is not a lot of room to play with.

Gabe
 
I just noticed 2 hairline cracks on the ceramic bricks on the sides. One of the cracks has a small pit about 1/8" by 1/8". I know I saw this addressed somewhere but I can't find where. Anyone have any ideas?
 
No issues CC. Mine has hairlines as well. Post a pic if youl like, but I think the stove is fine.

Gabe
 
This is my first winter with the Montpelier, installed early 2011. I spent a lot of time going through the Heath.com threads before buying. Many of the concerns discussed here were thrown at the potential vendors/installers before a decision was made. Most of them did not have a clue of what I was saying. Finally found the right guy who was willing to take the time to discuss the cons and pro of the VC unit. For a no brainer operation, he suggested a Jotul unit, but without the nicer look and the larger glass of course. In general he knows that people who buy those units are not returning to him for help or complaints. For the VC, he will take time to educate the customer because this unit is nicer, but needs more pampering (type of wood, preheating. etc). So thanks to all the posters for helping me finding the right vendor.

Installation was standard, but with the following details
A block off plate was not installed at the base of the full 25’ liner. Instead, approximately 1 foot of insulating wool was tuck tightly between the flue liner and the chimney masonry. This does 95% of the job of a perfectly air tight plate (which is almost impossible to achieve anyway)
To avoid any deformation of the liner while going through the damper area, a hydraulic jack was used to remove the cast iron damper assembly. This allowed plenty of space to avoid any kinking of the liner during installation (we saw quite a few horror stories in the threads), and enough play to insure an easy connection to the insert outlet. Of course, the original fireplace is now dead …
And most important thing, I was there during the whole installation process.

Initially, I had the reported problem of the door bottom rubbing on the front table while opening. As suggested, I played with the door adjustment, but a simple tightening of the bolts was sufficient to solve the problem, and improve the dollar bill test results. Seems that the unit was shipped with partially tightened bolts. The noisy fan problem was also easily solved as per suggestions in the forum.

With time, I found out the best loading instructions were in the VC user manual. Yes it takes time to build a good coal bed (2 to 3 small loads, 60 to 90 minutes) but only then can a full load be considered (otherwise poor operation and dirty glass). After that, operation with full air until 300deg is measured above the door, then operation with reduced air. This has been very successful for me. Thanks again for the tip on temperature monitoring.

I am still experimenting with the type of material to burn. The ecologs are practical but they tend to lose flame after a while and form a bed of red hot coal. Probably very efficient for night heating, but when I’m there I want to see FLAMES. So I will return to wood.

Overall experience with the unit has been good, mainly because I got good advices from this forum. Uninformed users must be quite desperate ….

Here are some pictures, one with nice secondary combustion. For those who might worry, the mantle is made of light concrete, so is non combustible.
 

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Elegant install... very nice!

Gabe
 
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