A few larger splits equals a full course meal. Updated with M.C. pics.
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Singed Eyebrows
Minister of Fire
Singed Eyebrows said:
I think you may be right. I suppose I could lose gassification, then maybe get it back. I don't know. So when I lose gassification is it just like a really hot wood stove burning really fast? I have done this and not had any problem heating the house when it was pretty cold out. So if I lose gassification, I would just lose some efficiency?
Singed Eyebrows
Minister of Fire
If you lose the coal bed you don't have a gasification boiler anymore. Emissions go up & efficiency goes down. After I posted I thought about the person burning green oak in his WG & he had a nice deep red coal bed, So maybe with the WG there are no worries. My Atmos can lose the coal bed easily, RandyGasifier said:
It would be interesting to split those pieces and see what the moisture content is in side. It seems unless you split down to about a 4-6" you never get the center dried out? That too would change the burn efficiency.
hr
hr
Just curious about what you said, Randy. When I burn a big load in my EB, the splits just keep dropping down in the firebox, maintaining a good coal bed. Eventually, when there's no wood left in the middle of the firebox, the coal bed will be gone over the nozzle, but some charcoal will still remain in the bed of the firebox (outside of nozzle range). I would expect all gasers to be similar in operation, but it sounds like you are referring to something other than this. If so, is it caused by some kind of bridging, or does something else happen with your boiler?Singed Eyebrows said:
woodsmaster
Minister of Fire
I've found I can burn a few larger pieces pretty well If I put them on top of smaller stuff. I Know that a wood gun is a little
different than the others.
different than the others.
A woodgun dealer by me said bigger logs are better cause little logs over gassify. Never saw it burn but if he says it must be true. My EKO likes kindleing more than anything.
A friend of mine has owned an Eshland Woodgun for around 25 years (must have been one of the first off the line). He's not big on seasoning - usually cuts late Summer and Fall. And, he loads it full with splits that are not in any way small. And, to make this even more amazing, he keeps his house very cool (mid 60). That combination would make my EB get so top-heavy with creosote, it would probably topple over onto it's side. But it's worked for him for many more years than any of the rest of us, so it must be true that the Woodgun (the original Eshland anyway) is a different animal.ihookem said:
Well, the Wood Gun swallowed those splits up without a problem. I put them in about 10PM and the temperatures here really warmed up last night and overnight. So I knew I would be okay in the morning without getting up early. I started to go down the basement stairs at 7:00AM and realized, no need to, the boiler was not running. I waited until 07:30 when it was runnning and opened the door to find about a third of a load still there. Those big splits really buy me some more time. A good bed of coals as well.
Randy, my wood gun can also lose the coal bed easy. There seems to be a lot of variables to that. Size, position, and type of wood for the splits, etc. I check it from time to time, and on a few occasions have found that the big splits can keep the gassification going, and sometimes not. Like I said, lots of variables. Sometimes even with the small wood I find I need to rake the coals around because they are good in the back and front, but have burned completely away in the middle. Or the opposite. :lol: I am a firm believer in "dryer" wood. I do not burn green wood. I have before out of necessity, but no longer. I try to burn wood that has been seasoned at least six months. Now keep in mind that I burn mostly White Ash and White Pine. That is what I have access to I am fortunate that it is free, besides the labor. I have found that the Ash and Pine dry well in six months. It is not, however, as good as having it dried for a year or more. I have finally gotten ahead this year. Forced myself to make the time to do it. I have 26 cord, Northen N.Y. yankee face cord, :lol: of Ash and Pine all stacked outside for next year. This is the first time I have been able to get ahead, I am usually burning stuff c/s/s in the spring. Now I have to start working on the 2013/14 supply.
in hot water, I have split some of my bigger splits and checked the M.C., although not one as big as the one I put in this picture, and I was pleasantly surprised at moisture content. The outsides of those splits I did check ranged from 15-18%, again, can vary even more than that though. But when I split a few open the M.C. was ranging from 18-24%. The first one in the pictures here are bigger though. But I am always happy with what I find with Ash and Pine. As long as I get it stacked outside where I am, and let the sun and a little wind get to it, the M.C. seems to be great by the time November comes around. Ash, as you probably already know, is known for less moisture and faster drying. The next time I have a really big one like that I will split it open and let you know what the M.C. is.
Woodmaster, I have found that that it depends on what type of wood I put on the bottom. I have to be carefull with Pine on the bottom. The Wood Gun can burn the dry Pine away so fast that I can end up with bridging. With Ash however, I do not have that problem. So I put the Pine on top. But if all Ash, I can put large or small splits and the Gun eats them up. Good coals with it as well. The smaller and medium size splits seem to do best, but the larger ones give me a little longer burn times.
Ihookem, I have found that the small splits can burn away really fast with the Gun. I have my damper closed down 75% now, that seems to help with how fast I go through the wood. It also prevents any "chugging" I get when burning small pine slabwood and the fire really gets going too fast and needs more oxygen.
Willworkforwood, I like burning wood that has been seasoned for at least six months. No sense burning more water than needed. It doesn't burn very well. :lol: The makers of the Wood Gun say that 20-30% M.C. is best. But I have had no problems burning my wood, which is anywhere from 15-24%. Like I said, lots of variables though. My Gun does produce some creosote in the burn chamber, from the idling. But it drys out, falls into the fire, and burns very well! I use my long cleaning tool and litely scrap around the loading door and put it into the fire. The rest of it on the sides and top I just leave it there and the hot fires take care of it.
I am very happy with the Wood Gun. I am very, very, glad I put this 400 gallon tank in with it. That helps make a lot less idleing, along with some other advantages like reserve heat. I would suggest twice that capacity for this size Gun, or any similar size boiler, for anyone doing a new system or adding storage to an existing system. Very pleased with how the Gun is not to "choosy" about what I put in it. And the large burn chamber gives me the long burn times I need for this big house, garage, and DHW demand.
My wife thinks I am losing it sometimes. :lol: She says, "You are not suppose to be getting excited when it gets colder! Your like a little kid with a new toy with that boiler!" :lol:
I really enjoy burning wood, it is my favorite hobby. C/S/S and burning to keep us all warm. Still have the 1/4 tank of oil I started with October 1st! The best of all. Bye, bye oil. :coolsmile:
Randy, my wood gun can also lose the coal bed easy. There seems to be a lot of variables to that. Size, position, and type of wood for the splits, etc. I check it from time to time, and on a few occasions have found that the big splits can keep the gassification going, and sometimes not. Like I said, lots of variables. Sometimes even with the small wood I find I need to rake the coals around because they are good in the back and front, but have burned completely away in the middle. Or the opposite. :lol: I am a firm believer in "dryer" wood. I do not burn green wood. I have before out of necessity, but no longer. I try to burn wood that has been seasoned at least six months. Now keep in mind that I burn mostly White Ash and White Pine. That is what I have access to I am fortunate that it is free, besides the labor. I have found that the Ash and Pine dry well in six months. It is not, however, as good as having it dried for a year or more. I have finally gotten ahead this year. Forced myself to make the time to do it. I have 26 cord, Northen N.Y. yankee face cord, :lol: of Ash and Pine all stacked outside for next year. This is the first time I have been able to get ahead, I am usually burning stuff c/s/s in the spring. Now I have to start working on the 2013/14 supply.
in hot water, I have split some of my bigger splits and checked the M.C., although not one as big as the one I put in this picture, and I was pleasantly surprised at moisture content. The outsides of those splits I did check ranged from 15-18%, again, can vary even more than that though. But when I split a few open the M.C. was ranging from 18-24%. The first one in the pictures here are bigger though. But I am always happy with what I find with Ash and Pine. As long as I get it stacked outside where I am, and let the sun and a little wind get to it, the M.C. seems to be great by the time November comes around. Ash, as you probably already know, is known for less moisture and faster drying. The next time I have a really big one like that I will split it open and let you know what the M.C. is.
Woodmaster, I have found that that it depends on what type of wood I put on the bottom. I have to be carefull with Pine on the bottom. The Wood Gun can burn the dry Pine away so fast that I can end up with bridging. With Ash however, I do not have that problem. So I put the Pine on top. But if all Ash, I can put large or small splits and the Gun eats them up. Good coals with it as well. The smaller and medium size splits seem to do best, but the larger ones give me a little longer burn times.
Ihookem, I have found that the small splits can burn away really fast with the Gun. I have my damper closed down 75% now, that seems to help with how fast I go through the wood. It also prevents any "chugging" I get when burning small pine slabwood and the fire really gets going too fast and needs more oxygen.
Willworkforwood, I like burning wood that has been seasoned for at least six months. No sense burning more water than needed. It doesn't burn very well. :lol: The makers of the Wood Gun say that 20-30% M.C. is best. But I have had no problems burning my wood, which is anywhere from 15-24%. Like I said, lots of variables though. My Gun does produce some creosote in the burn chamber, from the idling. But it drys out, falls into the fire, and burns very well! I use my long cleaning tool and litely scrap around the loading door and put it into the fire. The rest of it on the sides and top I just leave it there and the hot fires take care of it.
I am very happy with the Wood Gun. I am very, very, glad I put this 400 gallon tank in with it. That helps make a lot less idleing, along with some other advantages like reserve heat. I would suggest twice that capacity for this size Gun, or any similar size boiler, for anyone doing a new system or adding storage to an existing system. Very pleased with how the Gun is not to "choosy" about what I put in it. And the large burn chamber gives me the long burn times I need for this big house, garage, and DHW demand.
My wife thinks I am losing it sometimes. :lol: She says, "You are not suppose to be getting excited when it gets colder! Your like a little kid with a new toy with that boiler!" :lol:
I really enjoy burning wood, it is my favorite hobby. C/S/S and burning to keep us all warm. Still have the 1/4 tank of oil I started with October 1st! The best of all. Bye, bye oil. :coolsmile:
Singed Eyebrows
Minister of Fire
WWFW, What I was wondering was if the large splits Gasifier was using would burn properly to maintain a good coal bed. If they burn too slow the coal bed can get used up with gaps over the nozzle. A decent burn depends on the gasses being heated up to a high temp by being pulled or pushed through a coal bed & if they aren't you get a smoking gasser or at least more polution. I assume you rake the coals over the nozzle when you reload. It sounds like your EB is burning great, Randywillworkforwood said:
Ah yes, you were referring to split size - an interesting subject. Yes, I rake the bed back over the nozzle, as I'm sure most folks do, and I'm very pleased how the EB runs (even without storage). But I only use small splits - the famous playing card size split, and this avoids ever having a coal bed problem (except of course when I goof-up on the load amount). I cut lots of red oak, and have found that that stuff just simply does not get to 20% in 2 years (even with full sun and wind), unless I split small. I believe split size is a big factor in how our gasers run - maybe when Jebatty has no more fun things to do, he can run some split size experiments.Singed Eyebrows said:
Singed Eyebrows
Minister of Fire
I wish I could run a load of smaller splits, if I do though the boiler fan just shuts down at 90C, so there is no point in it. The Laddomat 21G as I've carped about just doesn't have enough pump to keep the fan from shutting off, Randywillworkforwood said:
martyinmi
Member
Gasifier,
Your enthusiasm is very evident in your posts, and it is contagious! Your Wood Gun combustion chamber is similar to what I have. I think I'll give some larger pieces a try tonight.
I went and watched a Wood Gun 150(?) in operation last year. Very impressive machine. The owner spent over an hour with me explaining all the ins and outs. I had my boiler list down to three manufacturers, and Wood Gun was one of them.
Your enthusiasm is very evident in your posts, and it is contagious! Your Wood Gun combustion chamber is similar to what I have. I think I'll give some larger pieces a try tonight.
I went and watched a Wood Gun 150(?) in operation last year. Very impressive machine. The owner spent over an hour with me explaining all the ins and outs. I had my boiler list down to three manufacturers, and Wood Gun was one of them.
That's unfortunate because I'm sure you (and your storage) would appreciate running the boiler full bore. No other reasonable way to move more water - like piping another small pump in series with the Laddomat pump?Singed Eyebrows said:
Singed Eyebrows
Minister of Fire
Thats what I am gathering the parts for now. I have a 1/6 hp circulator & a J thermocouple controller. I just need to buy a thermocouple & I should be set. One worry is pushing water into the tank too fast & delayering it, hopefully it will work, Randywillworkforwood said:
martyinmi said:
So far, so good. Like I said, I am very happy with the Wood Gun and the 400 gallon buffer tank I installed with it. I see your 250 holds 240 gallons of water. Looks like a nice boiler. Now, I am heating a large house, my garage, and my DHW with the E100 Wood Gun. I think it puts out more like 120-130,000 BTUs. I see your optimizer puts out up to 250,000 BTUs. Manufacturer claim. So lets say it really puts out 200,000 on average. That is a lot of BTUs. What are you heating with it? Sq.ft., DHW? I forgot when you finished your install. When was that? What type of wood are you burning? How seasoned is your wood? How do you like it so far? Did you heat with wood before?
jebatty
Minister of Fire
IMO, there is a relatively easy and inexpensive fix to this by simply installing a parallel circulator with the Laddomat and bypassing it with an aquastat to turn it "on" when system return water is greater than - you pick the temp - at least 160F, with perhaps a 5F differential. That will give you the boost in btu transfer when needed, and it will be "off" when not needed.
You can use the Laddomat spec'd maximum flow rate as a guide in determining how many more gpm you need to move your desired btu output at the required delta-T, and then size your parallel circ accordingly, or maybe somewhat generously. Keep in mind though that at the high end, with return 180F+ and still high btu output, you will always have increasing difficulty in moving boiler output, even with a parallel circ, and you still will need storage capacity to put it. You can't stuff more btu's into storage than you have capacity available.
Good practice is to load your burns so that the wood load is rapidly burning down as storage is topping off; that means btu output is rapidly falling as the ability to move btu's decreases and space available for btu's is just about full.
The Laddomat does not leave much room for "error" in loading for a burn, and therefore I think I agree that the Laddomat is light on the circulator side, but also from my experience I'm pretty confident that with more careful loading for burns along the lines just mentioned most, if not all, Laddomat issues would disappear.
Also, I would guess that the Laddomat design intent is that storage be adjacent to the boiler with properly sized plumbing so that boiler-storage pump head is very small, therefore allowing the Laddomat circ to move its spec'd maximum flow rate.
Example: if spec'd maximum flow rate is 11 gpm, and actual flow rate is 11 gpm based on boiler-storage pump head, then at delta-T = 30F or more (output up to 190F and return not more than 160F), the Laddomat will move 165,000 btuh or more; at delta-T = 20F, 110,000 btuh; at delta-T= 10F, 55,000 btuh; etc.
Singed Eyebrows
Minister of Fire
Jim, I was going to try the inline/series setup first. The pump I have is large enough to not cause much of an inlet restriction when off. My tank is less than 2' from the boiler with 1 1/2" steel pipe. Even if I loaded 1/4 loads I would outrun the Lado as it just doesn't move the water. I understand what you mean by being careful when topping off & I do this as you say by small loads of small splits. I need about 2 degree differential on my controller & hopefully a J thermocouple (Partlow) controller can provide this. I want to keep the boiler hot as possible. If my setup doesn't work I will probably need to get the next size up Lado, the 21-60. Thanks Jim, Randyjebatty said:
jebatty
Minister of Fire
Looks like you're doing and trying to do what will make it work. If you upsize the Laddomat, unless your dealer will replace at a very good price, make sure it too will meet your need. I look at the Laddomat in part as an enhanced Termovar or Danfoss, although it often is matched with fairly sophisticated boiler controls so that the boiler will slow down as the storage temp rises to allow a slower burn and storage top off without idling. If it was me, I still would lean towards a parallel circ, properly sized, because I would be pretty confident that would work an the price would be right. Hope you find the solution you are seeking.
Singed Eyebrows
Minister of Fire
Jim, What would a parallel circuit look like. Could you draw a diagram? It would seem that a second pump could flow water the wrong way, away from the boiler. How is the circulator properly sized? I have proportioning controllers that maybe sometime in the future I can understand how I can hook one in to top up the tank, Randyjebatty said:
martyinmi
Member
Gasifier,
I'm just heating my house and DHW. My house is around 1800 sq. ft. and heats like a corn crib. My wife likes it warm, so the thermostat is usually set at 73* or 74*. I also keep my basement at around 65* or so(another 900 sq.ft.).
I just installed this one in October. Before it, I had an Empyre Pro Series 100. The Empyre is a great little boiler, but the primary combustion chamber is a bit on the small side for my application. With 6 inches of coals in the bottom, I had less than 4 cu. ft. of space left for fuel.
I burn almost all White Ash, as almost all of them in this area are either dying or dead.
My wood is anywhere between 15% and 30%.
I am very impressed with the function and efficiency of the 250. Their refractories store so much heat that it can idle for 3-4 hours and still gasify almost instantly when heat is called for.
I am almost 50, and I have burned wood every year of my adult life, plus all the while growing up. I started out with an Ashley stove, then a Consolidated Dutchwest Federal Airtight stove, followed by a TSC wood furnace. Five years ago I built a couple of conventional OWB's and started heating with one of them. Last year, I bought the Empyre(I got a great deal on it,then sold it for what I paid for it), and now the P&M.
Marty
I'm just heating my house and DHW. My house is around 1800 sq. ft. and heats like a corn crib. My wife likes it warm, so the thermostat is usually set at 73* or 74*. I also keep my basement at around 65* or so(another 900 sq.ft.).
I just installed this one in October. Before it, I had an Empyre Pro Series 100. The Empyre is a great little boiler, but the primary combustion chamber is a bit on the small side for my application. With 6 inches of coals in the bottom, I had less than 4 cu. ft. of space left for fuel.
I burn almost all White Ash, as almost all of them in this area are either dying or dead.
My wood is anywhere between 15% and 30%.
I am very impressed with the function and efficiency of the 250. Their refractories store so much heat that it can idle for 3-4 hours and still gasify almost instantly when heat is called for.
I am almost 50, and I have burned wood every year of my adult life, plus all the while growing up. I started out with an Ashley stove, then a Consolidated Dutchwest Federal Airtight stove, followed by a TSC wood furnace. Five years ago I built a couple of conventional OWB's and started heating with one of them. Last year, I bought the Empyre(I got a great deal on it,then sold it for what I paid for it), and now the P&M.
Marty
martyinmi said:
Marty, Glad to hear it is working good for you. With that amount of sq.ft. you are heating you have some extra heat available there! This can be a good thing in the future if you decide to add anything else in you want to heat. Your garage, a pool, hot tub, etc. Long burn times are nice. I was tired of getting up in the middle of the night with my wood stove. The size house I had meant the wood stove was cranking pretty much all the time and I could only get 4-5 hour burns out of it. The Wood Gun, with it's large firebox is getting me all night burns even when it went to -10. That sounds like quite a history of wood burning you have been through. You are dedicated. Glad to hear it. Nothing like wood heat. What are they saying in your area about the trees? Are there any plans on the local or state level to replant trees?
Hey, Gasifier, I'm back. I guess it's a little bit colder in St. Lawrence. We had a few "cold" nights here (mid to upper teens) last week, but so far, most nights have been in the 30's. Normally I'd be thrilled about saving fuel, but I relly want to see what this baby can do! I meant to ask you once before about your lengths. The wood I cut last March was bucked up to 16" and I had to really load the WG to the top to get a 9-10 hour burn with it. I'm presently burning a combination of red oak, apple, black cherry and ash, plus a ton of silver (soft) maple. I find the soft maple is working well on the warmer days, but the coals don't always stay hot very long, so if the boiler idels too long, I come home to an oil fired boiler with a load of charcoal sitting up top. The charcoal sure fires up and gets hot real fast though.
Sorry to hear that you're stuck with lots of pine, although I've liked the ash I have. My neighbor is a landscaper and has a customer that needed a few red oaks taken down (damaged by Irene in August). I help him for free and get the wood! We got to the guy's house and he told us about a tree that came down across the dirt road between his and his neighbor's property. They cut it enough to pull it our of the road, and nobody wanted it, so we went back to look at it and it was a HUGE white oak. We cut the tops (about 2 cords worth) and the trunk is still there. My friend used a program to estimate that the trunk (16 feet long) eas about 0.89 cords in itself! We're going to get that tomorrow. So there we were, cutting the tops, and the neighbor comes over to watch. Then when he hears that I'm taking the wood to heat my house, says "you can come over here and cut anytime you want." It's about 25 acres of nearly all white oak! So, between what I got last week and this week, I have about 4-5 cords, plus another 3 cords I have stacked already. That gives me year-old wood to burn next winter. I'm hoping for 4-5 cords per winter, but unless it gets cold, who knows.
I was on another forum and saw a thread about free firewood. Says most tree companies are NOT in the firewood business, and they usually contract to cut and remove the trees. Since they don't do firewood, they try to get rid of it before they're done so they don't have to load it back on their truck and get rid of it. They usually cut it into 16-18" and leave it there. One poster said that he placed an ad on Craigs List and started getting calls right away, and had been busy for weeks getting free wood. Something to consider.
Sorry to hear that you're stuck with lots of pine, although I've liked the ash I have. My neighbor is a landscaper and has a customer that needed a few red oaks taken down (damaged by Irene in August). I help him for free and get the wood! We got to the guy's house and he told us about a tree that came down across the dirt road between his and his neighbor's property. They cut it enough to pull it our of the road, and nobody wanted it, so we went back to look at it and it was a HUGE white oak. We cut the tops (about 2 cords worth) and the trunk is still there. My friend used a program to estimate that the trunk (16 feet long) eas about 0.89 cords in itself! We're going to get that tomorrow. So there we were, cutting the tops, and the neighbor comes over to watch. Then when he hears that I'm taking the wood to heat my house, says "you can come over here and cut anytime you want." It's about 25 acres of nearly all white oak! So, between what I got last week and this week, I have about 4-5 cords, plus another 3 cords I have stacked already. That gives me year-old wood to burn next winter. I'm hoping for 4-5 cords per winter, but unless it gets cold, who knows.
I was on another forum and saw a thread about free firewood. Says most tree companies are NOT in the firewood business, and they usually contract to cut and remove the trees. Since they don't do firewood, they try to get rid of it before they're done so they don't have to load it back on their truck and get rid of it. They usually cut it into 16-18" and leave it there. One poster said that he placed an ad on Craigs List and started getting calls right away, and had been busy for weeks getting free wood. Something to consider.
Farmer, good to hear from ya man. How's that boiler treating you? Don't be sorry for me that I am "stuck" with Pine. I have a good source of White Ash and White Pine. And both burn good. The Pine just needs to be c/s/s and allowed to dry for a long enough time to season well. Yes, it burns fast. But I just burn it when I am home. No problem. A lot of people think Pine is not good to burn. Interesting when they say it makes creosote and causes chimney fires! If you dry it out, it does neither. Burning wood with way to much moisture in it creates those problems. I have been burning White Pine and White Ash for the last six years in this house and had no problems. I have the chimney cleaned once a year and when I see what comes out, I don't know if it is worth the money to clean it. There is hardly anything there. Just have to keep the fires hot and burn dry wood. Have a good one. Oh, remind me of when you got your boiler. Were you the one who snuck up on us and had the install all done already?
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