New homeowner needs advice

begreen · Jan 7, 2012

Correct, that is what one can also expect from a bigger stove with a lot of mass.

Biff_CT2 · Jan 7, 2012

Fiziksgeek said:
We bought a house in the fall of 2010 here in CT. It has 2 chimneys. One between the family room and attached garage that has 2 flues, one for the oil furnace in the basement and one for a fireplace in the family room (which I don't think has ever been used). On the other end of the house is our problem. There is an exterior chimney which fed a wood stove in the basement. There was always a slight smoke smell in the basement, but as it was late summer when we saw the place, it was pretty light and didn't bother us. As we got into fall and started closing up the house the odor got worse and worse. Life was busy, wife was pregnant, so we just left it alone and didn't burn any fires last winter, and didnt go into the basement much. The odor continued, sometimes stronger and sometimes weaker, I assumes varying with humidity. When the spring rains came, I noticed water in the firebox behind the wood stove. Its slowly gotten worse, to the point where it was enough water to spill out of the firebox onto the floor (luckily tiled).

A couple months ago, I called a chimney sweep to have the chimney/wood stove cleaned and inspected. Turns out the wood stove, which looks to be a converted coal stove, was not properly installed. The previous owner took a piece of flu pipe like you would have on a furnace, inverted it, and shoved it up the flue a foot or so. It was unclear when it had last been cleaned. The insulation around the pipe was soaking wet. The sweep said we had stage 3 creosote and need a deglazing. He took some pictures to show me, and broke off a couple pieces of creosote, maybe an inch thick. I stuck my head in there and saw what he saw. He sort of dismissed the smell, saying its was because the chimney was horribly dirty and wet. At that point, he called his supervisor, talked for a few minutes, and came back to me. He said they could do the deglazing and put the stove back, but that it was not properly installed and recommended that we not use it. I talked with him about putting in a liner, he gave me some ball park costs, talked with his boss and told me that they would do the deglazing free if we purchased a new stove and a proper stainless steal liner from them. I said we would think about it, he gave us his card and didn't charge us anything for the 45 minutes or so he spent at the house. Since then, I removed the stove (put it in the shed), and stuffed a piece of insulation the flue. The smell is till pretty strong, and water still comes down the flu (it is capped at the top). No water comes down the other chimney even though that one does not have a cap on it!

Soo....I have a three goals. First, stop the water from coming down the chimney. Second, stop the smoke odor. Third, have a usable wood stove.

Weather I call the original sweep or another, what do I need to ask him to do? Googling my way around, I see a lot of water issues being caused by crumbling/cracked crowns? So I need to get him up on the roof I assume? What typically causes the smoke smell, bad drafting? How does this get solved other than opening a window and freezing the basement and all my pipes? Will putting in a proper liner help the natural draft? Should I tear down the chimney..is that the only way to solve the problem? Help!

Re. smell

I'll assume your furnace is in the basement, without a direct hookup to outside air.

That said, your furnace needs air to burn your oil. It draws that air from the basement and expels out the flue. This creates a negative in your basement. The atmosphere outside your basement sees the negative in your basement through your basement-wood stove flue, and air moves down the your basement stove flue into your basement as a result. Along the way it picks up contaminates from inside your wood stove flue. My guess is that the fire smell in your basement is worse on days when your running your furnace. Outside humdity has a role as well, more humid air being inclined to move more of the crap in your chimney into your basement air.

Hence, you're going to have a 'fire' smell in the basement when you run your furnace.

Re. water

My bet is condensation due to air movement through the chimney when you operate your furnace. Your exterior chimney has significant thermal mass, so on days when you move wet air through the chimney you get condensation.

This could be good news, you may not need that roofer or mason. But you still have the airflow through the stove issue that isn't going to get solved. Replacing your stove with an air-tight EPA type stove will help; better would be finding a way to provide make-up air to your furnace so that you don't pull outside air through your basement chimney.

You could test this both these theories by opening a basement window or door when you're running your furnace. The water thing would be tricky though, you'd have to isolate the weather condition that cause the condensation.

Re. stove shops / sweeps

I'm not far from you in Connectcut and have some exerperience shopping masons, sweeps and stove shops. My advice: be skeptical. There are far more charlatans looking to screw you than there are reputable shops/servicers. And I'd definitely stay away from the stove shop in Naugutuck.

I've had decent luck with the two shops in Southington (Dean's and the other one immediately down the street).

And 'reputable' and 'sweep' are not two words I'd use together based on my experiences in your neck of the woods.

Fiziksgeek · Jan 7, 2012

Biff_CT2 said:
Re. smell

I'll assume your furnace is in the basement, without a direct hookup to outside air.

That said, your furnace needs air to burn your oil. It draws that air from the basement and expels out the flue. This creates a negative in your basement. The atmosphere outside your basement sees the negative in your basement through your basement-wood stove flue, and air moves down the your basement stove flue into your basement as a result. Along the way it picks up contaminates from inside your wood stove flue. My guess is that the fire smell in your basement is worse on days when your running your furnace. Outside humdity has a role as well, more humid air being inclined to move more of the crap in your chimney into your basement air.

Hence, you're going to have a 'fire' smell in the basement when you run your furnace.

Re. water

My bet is condensation due to air movement through the chimney when you operate your furnace. Your exterior chimney has significant thermal mass, so on days when you move wet air through the chimney you get condensation.

This could be good news, you may not need that roofer or mason. But you still have the airflow through the stove issue that isn't going to get solved. Replacing your stove with an air-tight EPA type stove will help; better would be finding a way to provide make-up air to your furnace so that you don't pull outside air through your basement chimney.

You could test this both these theories by opening a basement window or door when you're running your furnace. The water thing would be tricky though, you'd have to isolate the weather condition that cause the condensation.

Re. stove shops / sweeps

I'm not far from you in Connectcut and have some exerperience shopping masons, sweeps and stove shops. My advice: be skeptical. There are far more charlatans looking to screw you than there are reputable shops/servicers. And I'd definitely stay away from the stove shop in Naugutuck.

I've had decent luck with the two shops in Southington (Dean's and the other one immediately down the street).

And 'reputable' and 'sweep' are not two words I'd use together based on my experiences in your neck of the woods.

Smell-

Correct, oil furnace, in the basement, drawing air from the basement. The basement is walk out with a slider on the end of the house where the stove is, the smell clears up well if I crack the door a few inches. So you may be right, or the house has a strong stack effect....we had the smell during the summer when the AC was on, furnace was only only to heat hot water, and it wasnt much, we used ~40 gallons of oil in 4 months.

Water-

The water is correlated with rain, so although there may be condensation, its not significant enough to cause water to drip out of the flu..?

stove shops / sweeps-

The first place I called, and had the sweep come out was Safeside out of East Hartford. I didn't like they way the guy dismissed the water issue...he seemed more concerned with the cleaning/deglazing and getting me to buy a new liner and stove...which I think is true, it should be properly lined, but to dismiss the water isn't right. He also said if the shimney was clean, the smell would go away, which I do not believe...

I think tomorrow I will take a ride up to Dean's...Look slike they sell Hearthstone, Avalon, Lopi, and Enviro. besides hearthstone, I know nothing about those other brands. Anyone been to the House of Warmth (V+V wood stoves) up in New Milford, CT??

Beardog · Jan 8, 2012

Check out Green Mountain Stoves in New Hartford, CT - if that's not too far. Best prices on Hearthstone I found when shopping. Extreamly knowledgeable and helpful staff. Used 3G Chimney out of Torrington for a sweep once, do not recommend. Use Valley in Canton now, they are great.

Dix · Jan 8, 2012

Fiziks, sounds like you are on the right track.

Welcome to the forums . Have fun storming the castle ;-)

dafattkidd · Jan 8, 2012

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:
Fiziks, sounds like you are on the right track.

Welcome to the forums . Have fun storming the castle ;-)

HAHAHAHA my favorite movie! "I'm on the brute squad." "You are the brute squad."

elmoleaf · Jan 8, 2012

Water: on the building exterior, get a ladder and check the sloped brickwork at the first floor where the fireplace & its flue offsets from your boiler flue. It's possible the sloped surface up there has deteriorated mortar.

Fiziksgeek · Jan 8, 2012

elmoleaf said:
Water: on the building exterior, get a ladder and check the sloped brickwork at the first floor where the fireplace & its flue offsets from your boiler flue. It's possible the sloped surface up there has deteriorated mortar.

I did look there, as its not too high for me

Looked good. Also, the brick has been repointed up to about 8' high, up as far as the sloped area where the chimney slims down.

Fiziksgeek · Jan 8, 2012

So my wife and I went to Dean's today. I was impressed with the number of stoves they have on the floor.

Talking with the wife brought up an incident several years ago, when we first got out of school and were renting a town house with a free standing cast iron stove. We had a cat jump on top of it...with a roaring fire insode...the cat recovered from severely burned paws a few hundred dollars later. Long story short we actually looked at inserts. I wasn't terrible impressed with the Lopi or Avalon units. I was drawn to the Hearthstone Clydesdale. The salesman seemed to be pushing (and my wife liked) what he called the Elite 33 from Travis Industries. They were the same price within $50. Both were about 3K, I didnt haggle at all today, as I still need to get the chimney evaluated by their mason. One thing I didnt like about the elite 33 is the small handle seemed to be very hot and a bit harder to open. The handle on the Clydesdale was much larger, and because of its position stayed cool, nice and easy to open and throw on a log or two.

Still not sold on an insert. I guess I am questioning how they are going to get power back there to run the blower, but I do like the idea about not having a horizontal surface for anyone to jump on, and it definitely sames space too. I do have a generator, used during Irene for 5 days, and the halloween snow storm for 7! So I could keep a blower going in the power goes out, I can also keep the furnace going too....

Any comments on Travis Industries Elite 33 (Fireplace Xtrordinair) vs the Clydesdale??

Regarding lining the stove, they had two options. The cheaper one was $750, and it reminded me of a heavy duty dryer hose. He said you could not use a wire brush when cleaning it or it would tear. For $900 they would run a heavy duty flexible section up past the damper until it straightened out, they run rigid pipe the rest of the way. Seemed much stronger, and you could use a metal brush to clean it. The quote is for 35' of liner in each case, because the stove would be in the basement, and we have a 2 story colonial above it.

And $595 to install, which seems reasonable.

I asked about cleaning/deglazing, and they said since they would be there doing other work already, $75 for a basic clean, $150 for a deglazing.

They also do masonry repair, so I will have someone coming out this week to take a look. They seems to think just doing the basic crown repair would be just fine and certainly cheaper then what the other mason was trying to sell me!

Fiziksgeek · Jan 9, 2012

Any comments on Travis Industries Elite 33 (Fireplace Xtrordinair) vs the Hearthstone Clydesdale??

begreen · Jan 9, 2012

Bumping. I don't have experience with the Elite 33, but it gets good reports here. Travis makes Lopi/Avalon/and FPX. The Clydesdale is also an excellent insert and quite well made. Either would be a good choice.

Fiziksgeek · Jan 9, 2012

I got the quote from the first mason who came by.

1. Move equipment to site and layout job.
2. Set-up forklift and platform.
3. Remove top cement wash chimney.
4. Supply and install new brick piers.
5. Apply new cement wash to the top.
6. Supply and install spark arrestor screen.
7. Furnish and install bluestone weather cap to top of chimney.
8. Inspect existing flashing and notify owners if repairs needed.
9. Remove debris from job and clean area.

$2338 including tax

+$400 option to have the chimney exterior washed and sealed.

This is way more than I want to spend, and doesn't include flashing repair if necessary. Can anyone give me a typical cost for a new crown? Forget pillars and a bluestone cap...whats a basis crown job cost..?

Eaglecraft · Jan 10, 2012

Fiziksgeek said:
I got the quote from the first mason who came by.

1. Move equipment to site and layout job.
2. Set-up forklift and platform.
3. Remove top cement wash chimney.
4. Supply and install new brick piers.
5. Apply new cement wash to the top.
6. Supply and install spark arrestor screen.
7. Furnish and install bluestone weather cap to top of chimney.
8. Inspect existing flashing and notify owners if repairs needed.
9. Remove debris from job and clean area.

$2338 including tax

+$400 option to have the chimney exterior washed and sealed.

This is way more than I want to spend, and doesn't include flashing repair if necessary. Can anyone give me a typical cost for a new crown? Forget pillars and a bluestone cap...whats a basis crown job cost..?

Fiziksgeek:

From your quote, it seems that all that is being done is to replace the crown wash, plus making the top of the chimney fancier than it was by putting blue stone atop the chimney. I don't know about prices where you are, but $2338 including tax seems high. Also, will the new work interfere with cleaning the flue?

The first year after we bought our home, I had a sweep clean the chimney flue - then supporting an open fireplace. The sweep noted that the crown wash was deteriorated so we paid him to repair it. The next year I was up on the roof inspecting conditions and noted that his work was not satisfactory. There were several remaining (or new?) cracks and breaks that somehow the sweep overlooked. Since I have a 4/12 pitch roof, single story, I decided to replace and rebuild the crown wash myself. This was not a complicated job. I removed the broken and cracked cement (with 5 lb hammer and chisel) and built a plywood/ 2X4 form to support a new concrete pour. When the new crown wash had cured for some weeks, I coated the whole wash with an elasomeric product that has held up well for eight years now. Total materials costs were about $200 to $300 (concrete mix is cheap), the most expensive cost being the elasomeric product. It took me about two days to do the job - one half day to remove the old wash - one day to build the concrete form - one half day to pour concrete. It is a DIY job, but roof heights may present a challenge. When I need to get up high (we have tall spruce trees that need maintenance), I rent a man-lift. I have rented both tow-behind types (up to 60 feet high) and four-wheel drive units (up to 80 feet) with much success.

About your chimney reline: I suggest that you insist on knowing the brand name and type of flex-pipe that your contractor will provide. There are so many types available and you should know what you are buying. Also, an insulated pipe is a good thing. Also, getting references from your contractor and checking them out is worth the effort.

Concerning your proposed insert: We have a Clydesdale and are very pleased with our choice. I cannot speak to other types/models.

Good luck with your new insert install.

Fiziksgeek · Jan 10, 2012

volemister said:
Fiziksgeek:

From your quote, it seems that all that is being done is to replace the crown wash, plus making the top of the chimney fancier than it was by putting blue stone atop the chimney. I don't know about prices where you are, but $2338 including tax seems high. Also, will the new work interfere with cleaning the flue?

The first year after we bought our home, I had a sweep clean the chimney flue - then supporting an open fireplace. The sweep noted that the crown wash was deteriorated so we paid him to repair it. The next year I was up on the roof inspecting conditions and noted that his work was not satisfactory. There were several remaining (or new?) cracks and breaks that somehow the sweep overlooked. Since I have a 4/12 pitch roof, single story, I decided to replace and rebuild the crown wash myself. This was not a complicated job. I removed the broken and cracked cement (with 5 lb hammer and chisel) and built a plywood/ 2X4 form to support a new concrete pour. When the new crown wash had cured for some weeks, I coated the whole wash with an elasomeric product that has held up well for eight years now. Total materials costs were about $200 to $300 (concrete mix is cheap), the most expensive cost being the elasomeric product. It took me about two days to do the job - one half day to remove the old wash - one day to build the concrete form - one half day to pour concrete. It is a DIY job, but roof heights may present a challenge. When I need to get up high (we have tall spruce trees that need maintenance), I rent a man-lift. I have rented both tow-behind types (up to 60 feet high) and four-wheel drive units (up to 80 feet) with much success.

About your chimney reline: I suggest that you insist on knowing the brand name and type of flex-pipe that your contractor will provide. There are so many types available and you should know what you are buying. Also, an insulated pipe is a good thing. Also, getting references from your contractor and checking them out is worth the effort.

Concerning your proposed insert: We have a Clydesdale and are very pleased with our choice. I cannot speak to other types/models.

Good luck with your new insert install.

Thanks for the response.

I agree, they are proposing a crown job plus some extra work. Maybe its a better way long term to have a bluestone cap covering everything, but it seems to be to be more of an embellishment.

I was thinking that a crown job might cost $500-700 and what he was proposing would be $1000-1200...I was way off. A DIY job is out of the question, not because I wouldn't try, just because of the heights. At the peak of the two story colonial, on the end of the house with the walk in basement, its probably 30' to the top, I'm just not comfortable up that high!

I am sure they told me the brand of liner at Dean's, my bad for not writing it down. I figured I would wait until I got their mason out for a look before I ask any more questions. Is it sufficient to just do an insulating wrap around the liner, or should I ask for the pour in insulation that completely fills the flu around the liner after its installed?? The flu is 12x12.

Eaglecraft · Jan 10, 2012

Fiziksgeek said:
volemister said:

Fiziksgeek:

From your quote, it seems that all that is being done is to replace the crown wash, plus making the top of the chimney fancier than it was by putting blue stone atop the chimney. I don't know about prices where you are, but $2338 including tax seems high. Also, will the new work interfere with cleaning the flue?

The first year after we bought our home, I had a sweep clean the chimney flue - then supporting an open fireplace. The sweep noted that the crown wash was deteriorated so we paid him to repair it. The next year I was up on the roof inspecting conditions and noted that his work was not satisfactory. There were several remaining (or new?) cracks and breaks that somehow the sweep overlooked. Since I have a 4/12 pitch roof, single story, I decided to replace and rebuild the crown wash myself. This was not a complicated job. I removed the broken and cracked cement (with 5 lb hammer and chisel) and built a plywood/ 2X4 form to support a new concrete pour. When the new crown wash had cured for some weeks, I coated the whole wash with an elasomeric product that has held up well for eight years now. Total materials costs were about $200 to $300 (concrete mix is cheap), the most expensive cost being the elasomeric product. It took me about two days to do the job - one half day to remove the old wash - one day to build the concrete form - one half day to pour concrete. It is a DIY job, but roof heights may present a challenge. When I need to get up high (we have tall spruce trees that need maintenance), I rent a man-lift. I have rented both tow-behind types (up to 60 feet high) and four-wheel drive units (up to 80 feet) with much success.

About your chimney reline: I suggest that you insist on knowing the brand name and type of flex-pipe that your contractor will provide. There are so many types available and you should know what you are buying. Also, an insulated pipe is a good thing. Also, getting references from your contractor and checking them out is worth the effort.

Concerning your proposed insert: We have a Clydesdale and are very pleased with our choice. I cannot speak to other types/models.

Good luck with your new insert install.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the response.

I agree, they are proposing a crown job plus some extra work. Maybe its a better way long term to have a bluestone cap covering everything, but it seems to be to be more of an embellishment.

I was thinking that a crown job might cost $500-700 and what he was proposing would be $1000-1200...I was way off. A DIY job is out of the question, not because I wouldn't try, just because of the heights. At the peak of the two story colonial, on the end of the house with the walk in basement, its probably 30' to the top, I'm just not comfortable up that high!

I am sure they told me the brand of liner at Dean's, my bad for not writing it down. I figured I would wait until I got their mason out for a look before I ask any more questions. Is it sufficient to just do an insulating wrap around the liner, or should I ask for the pour in insulation that completely fills the flu around the liner after its installed?? The flu is 12x12.

Fiziksgeek:

If the chimney is in good shape, "wrap around" insulation should be sufficient. Pour in insulation is used, I think, where there is some evidence of a damaged flue, or you can't get an insulated pipe down the flue. With pour in insulation, I would be somewhat concerned about voids in the finished product. Would you have to use a concrete vibrator to ensure tightly packed insulation? With insulation wrap, you can see and prevent any cold spots.

I purchased an insulation wrap kit from ChimneyLinerDepot http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/st...sulation-Kit-5in.-x-25ft.-.5in-Thickness.html. I bought 25 feet of 6 inch Flex King Pro, wrapped the liner with the insulation, and dropped the whole shebang down the flue myself (13" X 13" - terra-cotta). The performance of the wrapped liner has been very satisfactory. We have excellent draft from initial fire start-up. The difference is day and night between starting an open fireplace (difficult) compared with an insert (very easy).

Stump_Branch · Jan 10, 2012

Fiziksgeek, seeing how for some reasons no ones said it unless i missed, have you seen woodstocks line of stoves? Soapstone cat stoves, great customer service. Woodstoves.com or simply do a search here. Lots of good things said.

I had a cheap small insert, didnt like it either. I prefer the pure stove over an insert. I have a similarish fireplace set up. If you got the room, try to put a nice sized stove up/in there.

Good luck.

Fiziksgeek · Jan 12, 2012

Stump_Branch said:
Fiziksgeek, seeing how for some reasons no ones said it unless i missed, have you seen woodstocks line of stoves? Soapstone cat stoves, great customer service. Woodstoves.com or simply do a search here. Lots of good things said.

I had a cheap small insert, didnt like it either. I prefer the pure stove over an insert. I have a similarish fireplace set up. If you got the room, try to put a nice sized stove up/in there.

Good luck.

I took a look at their website, Didn't seem to have the "good looks" like the hearthstone products, at least my wife said they didnt, haha!

pyper · Jan 12, 2012

I think it's the height that's raising your costs.

A friend of mine had some work done and I think he said the lift cost $1500 a week to rent.

Eaglecraft · Jan 12, 2012

pyper said:
I think it's the height that's raising your costs.

A friend of mine had some work done and I think he said the lift cost $1500 a week to rent.

Pyper(and I write this for the info of the OP):

No doubt that renting a lift adds to the cost of reaching the chimney. I rented a Genie TZ 34 (max working height 40 feet) towable boom lift three weeks ago to work on the gable end of a 20' by 30' utility building that my wife and I constructed this summer. The rental rate was $147 per day. It's battery operated. You tow it behind a tuck, take it off the hitch, drop the leveling legs and hop into the bucket - go on up to 40'. The lift is rated at 500 lbs. I could easily reach and work on my chimney with this unit, if I chose to.

Figuring that no more than three days are needed to do the job, at $200 (generous) per day - that's $600 for the equipment rental. Maybe these guys want $1,000 bucks a day for labor? I would ask them to itemize their quote to determine where there costs are. Still, I think that $2,300 for a crown wash replacement is high, even if it includes placing some fancy rocks on top of the chimney - and including the lift rental.

Fiziksgeek · Jan 13, 2012

I did asked for the itemization, and I also asked for the cost of a basic crown replacement, without the extra blue stone....

Haven't heard back from Dean's...I did call them and was told that the women who handles scheduling left Monday afternoon with a family emergency, I left a message asking her to call me when she was back....I understand a delay, but the business has to go on somehow...a bit disappointed they haven't gotten back to me by now...

Fiziksgeek · Jan 23, 2012

I finally heard back from the first mason, and the bluestone cap costs $800-900 over the standard crown repair ($1400-1500).

Having real trouble getting people to call back, getting someone who will go up on the roof and actually look at whats is going on....and now that we have some snow on the ground, I have a feeling it will get harder. Heck, Dean's didn't even call be back, not even with the prospect of me spending 4-5K in their store....People don't want my business..?

Eaglecraft · Jan 24, 2012

Fiziksgeek said:
I finally heard back from the first mason, and the bluestone cap costs $800-900 over the standard crown repair ($1400-1500).

Having real trouble getting people to call back, getting someone who will go up on the roof and actually look at whats is going on....and now that we have some snow on the ground, I have a feeling it will get harder. Heck, Dean's didn't even call be back, not even with the prospect of me spending 4-5K in their store....People don't want my business..?

Fiziksgeek:

What you are experiencing is the prevailing condition of the service industry, in general. I have experienced this myself from "repair contractors." Those who graduated from the old school don't treat their customers this way. But the new schoolers, particularly those who did not learn from an experienced mentor, don't see this behavior as a problem.

For an in-dpth analysis of the problem and what can be done to solve it, especially useful if you are a manager, I recommend "Out of the Crisis," by W. Ed Deming.

Fiziksgeek · Jan 26, 2012

I don't think I am the one who needs to be reading the book....don't they need to read it? and if I can't get them to call me back about a purchase, how am I going to get them to read a book...?

Eaglecraft · Jan 27, 2012

Fiziksgeek said:
I don't think I am the one who needs to be reading the book....don't they need to read it? and if I can't get them to call me back about a purchase, how am I going to get them to read a book...?

You have a good point, and I intended no offense to you. However, if you are in a management position, reading the book will help you in your work, your employees, your customers and your suppliers.

What I am referring to here is service quality. Returning calls to customers is part of delivering service quality, even if it is "only" repairing crown seals on chimneys. If your supplier will not return your calls, you need a different supplier. With respect to the supplier that won't return your calls, I am reminded of a story told by quality "guru," now deceased, Philip Crosby. He stated that, "For quality to happen in some organizations, someone must die." He was joking - but only up to a point. Some people in management present a such roadblock to service and product quality that they must be removed. Porsche went through such a "quality transformation,' in the 90's by getting rid of most senior management.

I have empathy for your frustrations. Still, I wish you good luck with your chimney repair.

Fiziksgeek · Jan 27, 2012

Certainly no offense was taken. You preaching to the choir though!

I finally got a hold of Dean's and got an appointment for the inspection. Feb 7th though, so its gonna be a little longer until I get the second opinion..

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