A few larger splits equals a full course meal. Updated with M.C. pics.

martyinmi · Jan 7, 2012

Gasifier,
There is definitely plenty of capacity in the 250. It is P&M's smallest offering. We do have a small above ground pool that we put up every year. It's only 16 ft. in dia. and 52" deep. It only takes a day or two to heat it up in the summer. I've only ran a boiler in the summer once and that was last summer. I don't believe it does them any favors when we allow such long periods between cycles. I won't run this new one when it's warm outside.
I really couldn't tell you what's being done, or for that matter, if anything's being done where the trees are concerned. The Ash trees in our area usually grow in clusters, so if you find an area with a few mature ones that are dead, there are usually many saplings in that same area that don't seem to be affected by the EAB.
Glad you're happy with your Wood Gun. The only thing about the WG that worried me a bit was the cyclone ash separator(that's what he called it). The gent who allowed me to view his said his would plug up very quickly in the event he burned wood that was a little wet. He said that his plugged up many times before he figured out why. No one knows me like I do, and I'm quite positive that I would have inadvertently attempted to burn wet wood and had issues with it. I would have had to build a lean to on to my barn also.
How many cu.ft. is the primary burn chamber on your boiler? The one that I looked at appeared to be nearly as big as mine. He sure liked it. He heated his home(2000 sq.ft?),basement(close to the same), and 30'x30' work shop with 2x/day fills.

Marty

jebatty · Jan 7, 2012

Rnady: Jim, What would a parallel circuit look like. Could you draw a diagram? It would seem that a second pump could flow water the wrong way, away from the boiler. How is the circulator properly sized?

Here is a very simple drawing. Added is a circulator with its own aquastat (clamp-on, well, electronic, etc.) that turns on the parallel circ at the desired return water temperature, with as I suggested above a 5F differential: on at 170F, off at 165F, for example. The original circ and boiler protection (or Laddomat) is not changed at all, continues to operate according to its controls. Since system return water is above 160F, the boiler protection function no longer is needed and bypassing the boiler protection causes no boiler issue. All that happens is total system flow increases.

As to sizing, it seems to me that you want total flow gpm sufficient to move boiler btu's to storage at the lower delta-T which occurs as storage starts to top off or as boiler approaches the idle point. If maximum storage (or idle point of boiler) is 190F, you probably want added gpm to handle boiler output at some point equal to delta-T=20 or less, assuming the original circ will handle full boiler output at at all delta's above 20. The simple fact is that any increase in gpm will reduce idling tendency, and there is no magic number here. Everything is a function of delta-T supply/return temp, combined with the storage (or system) capacity to handle additional boiler btu output so that the boiler will not idle.

Determining added flow from the added circ can be complicated. This is a function of pump head, and keep in mind head increases by additional flow to the 1.75 power (or somewhat less than squared): if flow x2, head increase somewhat less than x4).

If it was me, I simply would add an inexpensive 15-58 or a 007 and see how it works. 1-1/2" pipe is spec'd for 22 gpm, and I would guess that either of these with the original circ will start to approach this flow rate. 20 gpm at delta-T=20 is 200,000 btu's.

Keep in mind this will be successful to handle boiler output only to the extent that system or storage can accept the additional output. If they can't, then boiler temp will continue to rise to the idle point.

Singed Eyebrows · Jan 7, 2012

jebatty said:
Rnady: Jim, What would a parallel circuit look like. Could you draw a diagram? It would seem that a second pump could flow water the wrong way, away from the boiler. How is the circulator properly sized?

Click to expand...

Here is a very simple drawing. Added is a circulator with its own aquastat (clamp-on, well, electronic, etc.) that turns on the parallel circ at the desired return water temperature, with as I suggested above a 5F differential: on at 170F, off at 165F, for example. The original circ and boiler protection (or Laddomat) is not changed at all, continues to operate according to its controls. Since system return water is above 160F, the boiler protection function no longer is needed and bypassing the boiler protection causes no boiler issue. All that happens is total system flow increases.

As to sizing, it seems to me that you want total flow gpm sufficient to move boiler btu's to storage at the lower delta-T which occurs as storage starts to top off or as boiler approaches the idle point. If maximum storage (or idle point of boiler) is 190F, you probably want added gpm to handle boiler output at some point equal to delta-T=20 or less, assuming the original circ will handle full boiler output at at all delta's above 20. The simple fact is that any increase in gpm will reduce idling tendency, and there is no magic number here. Everything is a function of delta-T supply/return temp, combined with the storage (or system) capacity to handle additional boiler btu output so that the boiler will not idle.

Determining added flow from the added circ can be complicated. This is a function of pump head, and keep in mind head increases by additional flow to the 1.75 power (or somewhat less than squared): if flow x2, head increase somewhat less than x4).

If it was me, I simply would add an inexpensive 15-58 or a 007 and see how it works. 1-1/2" pipe is spec'd for 22 gpm, and I would guess that either of these with the original circ will start to approach this flow rate. 20 gpm at delta-T=20 is 200,000 btu's.

Keep in mind this will be successful to handle boiler output only to the extent that system or storage can accept the additional output. If they can't, then boiler temp will continue to rise to the idle point.

Hi Jim, Thanks, I understand the parellel system better now./// I do not only have trouble topping off the boiler when there is a low Delta T, I have trouble right from the start with a cold tank & large Delta T. I would think that the Lado is faulty except that Zenon(New Horizons) had so much greif with the small 21G not pushing water that he stopped selling them. I also need to balance increased flow with not stirring up the tank. Randy

FarmerTan · Jan 7, 2012

Gasifier said:
Oh, remind me of when you got your boiler. Were you the one who snuck up on us and had the install all done already?

Yeah, I'm they guy in CT who snuck up on you. Got the WG installed right around Thanksgiving (no central heat up till then - old boiler crapped out). It's going real well. I just wish we'd get some real winter. I've got dandelions in my back yard for cryin' out loud. At this point last year we had three feet of snow.

I have to tell ya, it sure is good to have this forum. It's just too easy to spend more time than I have browsing the various topics. As for me, I spent most of today working on next year's fuel. c/s/s/ roughtly a cord of white oak. Got another 1-2 of red oak to go. That white oak is so nice- tight grain, nice color. It's almost a shame to be burning it as firewood. ALMOST. Some folks tell me that I don't look like a 50 year old, but I sure feel like one right now! Moving 24 inch rounds (20" long), then sledge and wedging them into halves and quarters to get them up on the splitter. At 50 years old, 5'9" and 160 pounds, that's hard work for this old man. Sure beats paying for a gym membership though!

FarmerTan · Jan 7, 2012

I'm hoping for winter, but hope the snow holds off long anough for me to get the rest of next years wood c/s/s/. Then I hope it snows like mad, because my neighbor who helps me with the wood all the time needs to go do some plowing.

muncybob · Jan 8, 2012

I'm also hoping snow holds off a while, in process of lining up a nice Hickory score on CL and snow on the ground will put a halt to that! Had the boiler off most of the day as it got to mid 50's with sunshine...weird!!

Gasifier · Jan 8, 2012

inhotwater. Here is a moisture check of a similar size large split. The first picture is of a split that is almost the size of the one in the first picture of the original post. The second picture is of the moisture meter measuring on the outside of that split. The third picture is of the moisture meter measuring on the inside of the split just after I mauled it in-half. The maul makes quick work of Ash. This is jsut one of the benifits of White Ash, seasons quickly. I was even surprised at this when I split it open and measured it though. I was expecting closer to 22-24% with a piece that big. These were cut in late May, if I remember right, and s/s in the beginning of June. The area I stack in gets some wind, not a lot though, but any day the sun is out it hits the rows on one side on the way up, and then on the other on the way down.

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A few larger splits equals a full course meal. Updated with M.C. pics.

martyinmi

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jebatty

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Singed Eyebrows

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FarmerTan

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muncybob

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Gasifier

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