tuliviki continued....

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poconosms1

New Member
Dec 26, 2011
17
Mid-Atlantic
Several people wanted an update on my situation

In summary, I have a TU1000 Tuliviki soap stone stove - It cost 10k, plus installation. My house is on open area house with 3 different levels and over 55 windows and skylights. I cannot install a stove on the lowest area as it has no outside walls. The stove is on the mid level. The majority of my time is spent on the highest level, which has the most square footage. From the lowest level to the highest ceiling is 30 feet - again open.


I finally spoke with a tuliviki installer and here was his thoughts - The stoves are designed to heat the areas on which they are installed. It was installed on the wrong level. (With the foundation that was required, the prior owner could not have installed it on the main level. He suggested I burn the stove hotter. You cannot continually burn a fire is these stoves. I burned a hotter stove during the past cold snap. On the nights it was 12 degrees or below, the stove could not heat the house warmer than 62 degrees, when it's cloudy it cannot heat the house warmer than 62 degrees. if the sun is out, then I heat the house to 73 degrees. On cloudy days, I have to run electric base board heat $$$$$$$

I also found out that the stove had "extensions" added to create more height. The installer said adding additional stove won't solve the problem since I'm trying to heat an area that's above the stove.

Ultimately, the stoves are meant to radiate the heat to the area where the stove is. I think the prior owner thought that the heat would rise to the level above (there is no wall between the middle and upper levels, just a 4 foot wall.

Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that I will be selling the stove once I get over the fact that's it's a beautiful stove. Still, the bottom line is I need a higher BPU or more wall space to install another wood stove.


Thanks for all the comments.
 
That's a bummer. Could you install a small stove on the upper level to help out?
 
It's hard to describe my house. Every guest who has visited my house are amazed of the layout. Every where you look you see trees, a distant lake during the winter, or a stream along the house. Unfortunately, I have two outside walls on the main level - one is a kitchen and the other is a big sliding glass door with a wall heat pump next to it.

On a more positive note, the prior owner installed steel shutters on on the ground level and doors. I have three oversize sliding glass doors - two of which are on the same level as the stove. By closing them, I've cut down on the negative heating effect of the two doors.
 
We have a small house, but there are still 20 skylights. Plus windows, of course. We have two stoves. We do not always have to burn fires in both stoves, but we do in colder weather. In more moderate weather, say, down to 25 F. or something like that, either stove will heat the house, including the upper room. In very cold weather, neither stove by itself will keep all areas of the house as warm as we want.

Sometimes, trying to heat an entire house with one stove is difficult. Particularly when the floor plan is of different levels or, like in our case, the house is shaped such that one stove won't hit all the areas.

If you like the stove you have, and it works well for that mid level, you might want to consider an additional stove for upstairs. Yes, it is another chimney and another breach of the house envelope, but it might be a solution. My idea, when I built this place, was to have one stove. After a few years, I realized I'd be much more comfortable with two. And I am glad I added another.
 
poconosms1 said:
I'll think about it, as I don't want to sell the stove, but as my daughter and wife say, the room with the stove is unusable - too hot.

Ok, this is different information from the original post where you said you needed to up the BTU and so forth. If you cannot get more heat from any stove because the room will then be too hot if you do, then there really is no other option other than adding a stove upstairs. Or am I confused here..... [quoting from the original post: "Still, the bottom line is I need a higher BPU or more wall space to install another wood stove."]
 
I am looking for higher a bpu. My neighbors' heat their whole house with coal and pellet - not sure if that's the anwser. I'm hoping that a higher BPU produce by a blower will allow the hot air up to the highest level. The stove works by radiant heat. Since you cannot "see" the stove from the upper level, it does not have the radiant heat effect. I get the best heating on the uppler level when there is a fire in the stove.

Ultimately, I'm trying to push 300 degrees by the end of the burn, but the stove overall temperature is not supposed to exceed 300 and average 200 degrees when I am not burning wood. That just doesn't seem hot enough to heat the upper level.
 
Have you ever checked out this you tube video on Tuliviki? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYUB-OWCsy0

the video is nothing special however the comments caught my attention,

If you have any questions about Tulikivi or masonry heaters you can e-mail [email protected] or call my cell phone 269-598-5831. Masonry Heater Design House - Douglas Hren
 
poconosms1 said:
I am looking for higher a bpu. My neighbors' heat their whole house with coal and pellet - not sure if that's the anwser. I'm hoping that a higher BPU produce by a blower will allow the hot air up to the highest level. The stove works by radiant heat. Since you cannot "see" the stove from the upper level, it does not have the radiant heat effect. I get the best heating on the uppler level when there is a fire in the stove.

Ultimately, I'm trying to push 300 degrees by the end of the burn, but the stove overall temperature is not supposed to exceed 300 and average 200 degrees when I am not burning wood. That just doesn't seem hot enough to heat the upper level.
I cant understand half of what your saying...200 degree avg.when not burning wood?

The heat should rise to the upper level.
We need pics.
 
A tuliviki stove is the most efficient stove available. You burn one or two loads of wood 1-4 hours of burn time. The stone retains the heat for 18-24 hours - after the fire dies. Once you've had a couple of days of fires, you want to have the stove maintain an external temperature of 200 degrees. When it drops below, you will want to have another burn. Heat does rise, but according to the manufacture and the installer, it is radiant heat, which means all surfaces must have direct sight contact to heat.
 

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It would still heat the air also.
The only true radiant heat would be from the sun..open fire..electric space heater with the element exposed..electric stoves..things like that.
Sure if you heat a bunch of rocks they will "radiate" heat...but its still convection pulling the heat off them into the surrounding area.
Which could be people, walls or anything that air currents would take the heat to..even surrounding air.

Pretty cool looking though!

The stone is really just a buffer.
It doesn't create any additional heat.
 
What I am reading above describes a house with far too little insulation for a single point source of heat. In a theoretical perfectly insulated space, the temperature will eventually equalize, regardless of high or low ceilings, stairways, doorways, etc. We all live in real, not theoretical space so we experience less than the ideal. However, the better we are able to reduce heat loss, particularly at the outer edges of our heated envelope, the more comfortable we will be.

The description of the views suggests lots of glass. High ceilings mean lots of wall area, and possibly reduced ceiling insulation. The R value for the best windows is still pitiful, and walls almost always have lower R ratings than are possible in ceilings. Heat does rise, of course, but it can be slow. As you get farther away from the heat source the heat entering the space through convection cannot keep pace with the heat radiated out.

My guess is that you will not be comfortable with any single wood stove. As always, this largely uniformed opinion comes with a complete money back guarantee. Please have your receipt.
 
It would help if you showed a sketch of the layout of your house. A side view showing levels would be best. you refer to levels 1, 2, and 3, then switch to upper, middle and lower,and now you're talking about the main level where the kitchen is. Which level is that? You've also introduced another problem by saying the Tulikivi over heats the space it's in. So, you can't fire it high enough to heat the house and can't fire it low enough to cool the wife. You are now between a rock and a hard place. Wife, of course, trumps either. It might be time to move the rock.

Ehouse
 
Halftime Report: two classic battles, one most commonly described as "moving the heat" out of the stove room, a problem experienced by owners of all kinds of stoves, usually solved by deploying small fans to blow cold air into the stove room, and the other, a demon called "heat loss," through all of that glass. So yeah, if you have enormous heat loss, more BTU's available to sacrifice would help, but I'm +1 for adding a 2nd stove. A stove doesn't have to be vented through an exterior wall., the best chimney is one that goes straight up through the roof, and the best stove location for heat distribution is usually central, not on an exterior wall. Sooo, howsabout posting up that floor plan and letting hearth.com work it's magic? :cheese:
 
Have you thought about placing an additional woodstove in the middle of a room (preferably on the level where you spend most of your time)? There is someone on the site that has, I believe, an Equinox that he has placed in the middle of a room and it is quite sharp looking. Maybe that would alleviate your problem of not having enough wall space to place an additional stove? Try a search on Equinox and maybe you'll be able to find the picture he posted. Also, an internet search might yield some pics of stoves placed in the middle of rooms instead of against a wall.
 
There's a solution here somewhere. Heat goes to cold. It doesn't have a preferred direction of movement. Warmer air will rise if displaced by cooler air which is heavier, and having done so will give up heat to cooler surroundings including the ceiling, floor, walls, people and the air below it. This type of stove heats mostly by radiation, heating objects it can "see". The surface temps. (200-300*) aren't hot enough to warm the surrounding air much, so, little or no convection. The objects it heats (and the stove itself) will slowly give up heat to the surrounding air by conduction. In a well insulated house, the air would eventually warm up enough to equalize the temps.. At that point a fan might help, but it will have no effect on radiant heat. I suspect you can tone down the Tulikivi with smaller fires so it doesn't over heat the space it's in. Now you need more heat for the main (upper?) space. You can't do it by air convection as per above. I have read that you can retrofit these with a hot water coil around the firebox. Ask the rep. about that. You might be able to run a loop up to a radiant panel (DIY wainscoat might be nice), hydronic baseboard, or a fan coil. I've had good luck with a kick space heater. +1 on checking/upgrading the insulation on the upper level, including insulating drapes. You say there is a heat pump on the main level. Could you replace it with a wall thimble to an external class A chimney or a DV gas stove? Hate to see you lose the Tulikivi.

Ehouse
 
Here's something else. What's your kitchen layout? Would you happen to be using gas for cooking? They used to make gas ranges with side heaters. I wonder if they still do. I'll post an inquiry on the gas forum. It would have to be vented of course. Maybe someone makes a DV version. You could even put in a wood cook/heating range like the Esse and vent up the outside.

Ehouse
 
You need more heat and more insulation. Maybe an additional pellet stove if you can't get a normal wood stove vented in your home. The photo's I've seen of masonry style stoves in northern europe are usually in small well insulated houses.
 
poconosms1 said:
I'll think about it, as I don't want to sell the stove, but as my daughter and wife say, the room with the stove is unusable - too hot.

I guess I don't get it. The stove room is too hot, the rest of the house is too cold. You state you have beautiful nature views so use nature to move that heat. Using fans to move the heat has been greatly discussed here. A couple of fans slowly moving cool air into the stove area should get that heat moving. Fans = cheaper than removing/installing a different stove.
 
I do use fans - per the original installers design. The original installer also told me that the stove was undersized for what the prior owner was trying to accomplish. The prior owner did things based on status and expense.

Don't forget, a tuliviki stove does not work like regular stoves. It's designed to heat the surfaces of items exposed to it, not generate high BPUs.
 
Sounds like you do need to replace it then.
All in all it's still a wood stove.

The way you describe your place it would take a lot of BTU's to heat it.
Probably should have been zoned hot water heat..and maybe just the stove you have for ambiance and to warm the room it's in.
The cubic feet you have with all those windows is tuff to heat..sounds like a staggered tri level.
 
Shari, if you let your woodstove go out and the temp in the house drops to 30*, and you place a thermometer out of the direct line of the stove, light a fire and sit in front of it, You will feel warm as soon as the stove heats up and begins radiating heat. The thermometer, however will continue to register low temps until the house warms up, which it will after a while because the stove is designed to burn hot enough (500* or so surface temp) to warm the air surrounding it, setting up convection currents. Walk around the corner to look at the thermometer and you will feel cold again. Although the firebox temp of a masonry heater may be well above that of your stove when it's being fired, the surface temp is much lower because the heat is absorbed by the stone and released slowly. It's not hot enough to warm the relatively low mass air. That is one reason why it's hard to move heat sideways with air as the medium, it doesn't hold much heat to begin with and gives it up easily. If you go to Aspen in ski season you will see the scantily clad (or un) happily tanning on the back deck although the ambient temp may be in the teens ( as are many of the sunbathers).

Ehouse
 
Slightly off the topic, I keep seeing the abreviation BPU used. I am familiar with BTU, but can't find a definintion for BPU (that fits this context).
Here are the meanings I have found.

BPU Board of Public Utilities
BPU Branch Processing Unit
BPU Bibliothèque Publique et Universitaire (French: Public and University Library; Switzerland)
BPU Bordereau des Prix Unitaires (French: Unit Price Schedule)
BPU Branch Prediction Unit
BPU Basic Performance Upgrades
BPU Banche Popolare Unite (Italian bank)
BPU Baseband Processing Unit
BPU Base Production Unit
BPU Bâtisseurs du Pays d'Urfé (French construction company)
BPU Blood-Pack Unit
BPU Business Prevention Unit
BPU Bridge Processing Unit
BPU Boundary Processing Unit
BPU Basic Power Upgrade (automotive)
BPU Buffer Processor Unit


Please enlighten me.
 
Here is the layout. Sorry I can't do much better with drawing. It's not my career. Measurements are wall to wall. I'm not looking to heat bedrooms on main floor. We like it cold. Just looking to heat main dining area and kitchen area. As you can see, not much room for placing a new stove in the middle of any of the rooms.
 

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