Hedge your pellet purchases

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I'll be interested to see how this works out. I wonder if it will force pellet manufacturers to standardize their product. It's not like Oil or Gold where a gallon or ounce is the same around the world. If you're paying in advance for contracts, and then get a cruddy batch, it would really throw a wrench in the works.

At the same time, it'll really blow to have a price increase in pellets because a couple of Wall St. brokers read a report about an increase in the beaver population...
 
kofkorn said:
I'll be interested to see how this works out. I wonder if it will force pellet manufacturers to standardize their product. It's not like Oil or Gold where a gallon or ounce is the same around the world. If you're paying in advance for contracts, and then get a cruddy batch, it would really throw a wrench in the works.

At the same time, it'll really blow to have a price increase in pellets because a couple of Wall St. brokers read a report about an increase in the beaver population...


http://biomassmagazine.com/articles/5899/the-undefinedend-of-an-eraundefined
 
inevitabLEE said:
kofkorn said:
I'll be interested to see how this works out. I wonder if it will force pellet manufacturers to standardize their product. It's not like Oil or Gold where a gallon or ounce is the same around the world. If you're paying in advance for contracts, and then get a cruddy batch, it would really throw a wrench in the works.

At the same time, it'll really blow to have a price increase in pellets because a couple of Wall St. brokers read a report about an increase in the beaver population...


http://biomassmagazine.com/articles/5899/the-undefinedend-of-an-eraundefined

This dude Chris Wiberg? Oh lets all jump up and down for joy because pellets are going to be twice the price they used to be. Plus it's a no brainer the special policed pellets won't burn any longer than they did before! Thanks Chris. What the USA needs is more people like you so we can't do anything other than what we're told we can do because you're so intelligent, and we aren't. I'm guessing we are so dumb that we can't police our pellet industry by not purchasing pellets that burn like crap. If they are trash pellets. We don't buy them. If we don't buy them. The company producing them either produces a better quality pellet. Or they go out of business.

Not sure about where you got your Al Gore Degree from taking you seven years to figure this out. It only took this Forum and a few minuets for us to know what to buy, and what not to buy. :bug:

I'm getting Dad Gum tired of being told what we need and why we need it. I don't know about everyone else? The only thing I need is less of is this crap!!! Chris, It's a freaking pellet........
 
redhot1 said:
inevitabLEE said:
kofkorn said:
I'll be interested to see how this works out. I wonder if it will force pellet manufacturers to standardize their product. It's not like Oil or Gold where a gallon or ounce is the same around the world. If you're paying in advance for contracts, and then get a cruddy batch, it would really throw a wrench in the works.

At the same time, it'll really blow to have a price increase in pellets because a couple of Wall St. brokers read a report about an increase in the beaver population...


http://biomassmagazine.com/articles/5899/the-undefinedend-of-an-eraundefined

This dude Chris Wiberg? Oh lets all jump up and down for joy because pellets are going to be twice the price they used to be. Plus it's a no brainer the special policed pellets won't burn any longer than they did before! Thanks Chris. What the USA needs is more people like you so we can't do anything other than what we're told we can do because you're so intelligent, and we aren't. I'm guessing we are so dumb that we can't police our pellet industry by not purchasing pellets that burn like crap. If they are trash pellets. We don't buy them. If we don't buy them. The company producing them either produces a better quality pellet. Or they go out of business.

Well said! :exclaim:

Not sure about where you got your Al Gore Degree from taking you seven years to figure this out. It only took this Forum and a few minuets for us to know what to buy, and what not to buy. :bug:
 
Singing....

It's the end of the world as we know it!

and I feel fine!

with fingers in ears..........
 
Take a look at some of the recent pellet threads. PowerHouse and Bayou both have peeps complaining of loong pellets in the mix. So much for PFI's spec's and there police farce!

We do a far better job and for no added value to the fuel. I personnally done give a darn if there is or isn't a flippin PFI label on what I buy! Psst!
 
I've been on the raw material supply side of the pellet biz for many years. One minute markets are good the next they suck. It's been to hard to justify the expense of expansion in this market with ups/downs from year to year.
IMO, this and the recent growth of the pellet industry will breed/encourage more investment and diversity of different fuel types.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you're in the market for a stove, a multifuel should be seriosly considered. The future of pellets will not only be wood based.
 
I have been wondering what will happen to the cost of pellets with the collapse of Europe. Much of what is made here and Canada goes overseas, and with the Euro going south, it will be more expensive for them to import. Do our domestic manufacturers cut back on production, because of collapsing markets abroad? They have nowhere to go but UP! Stock up for 2013-14. Those $219/tons at the box stores might just be history, going forward....
 
Augustine said:
I have been wondering what will happen to the cost of pellets with the collapse of Europe. Much of what is made here and Canada goes overseas, and with the Euro going south, it will be more expensive for them to import. Do our domestic manufacturers cut back on production, because of collapsing markets abroad? They have nowhere to go but UP! Stock up for 2013-14. Those $219/tons at the box stores might just be history, going forward....

Covered next ....
 
It's not just Europe. China and other developing countries are jumping on the pellet bandwagon also. You have to remember that EU countries also signed onto the Kyoto Protocol which mandated cleaner fuels by 2020.
I believe coastal regions will see the most price volatility in the next few years just due to competition for feedstock . The midwest to the Rockies should remain fairly stable due to avilability of different types of fuel and the oversupply of cheap feedstock in the west.

http://www.articlesbase.com/environ...llets-in-search-of-clean-projects-366336.html
 
inevitabLEE said:
I've been on the raw material supply side of the pellet biz for many years. One minute markets are good the next they suck. It's been to hard to justify the expense of expansion in this market with ups/downs from year to year.
IMO, this and the recent growth of the pellet industry will breed/encourage more investment and diversity of different fuel types.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you're in the market for a stove, a multifuel should be seriosly considered. The future of pellets will not only be wood based.

Multifuel stove √

Scrounge up a few viable replacements for wood pellets JIC. √

I betting bamboo is the next wood fiber replacement to make headway. But we will have to wait and see! ;-)
 
j-takeman said:
I betting bamboo is the next wood fiber replacement to make headway. But we will have to wait and see! ;-)

How long???
 
j-takeman said:
inevitabLEE said:
I've been on the raw material supply side of the pellet biz for many years. One minute markets are good the next they suck. It's been to hard to justify the expense of expansion in this market with ups/downs from year to year.
IMO, this and the recent growth of the pellet industry will breed/encourage more investment and diversity of different fuel types.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you're in the market for a stove, a multifuel should be seriosly considered. The future of pellets will not only be wood based.

Multifuel stove √

Scrounge up a few viable replacements for wood pellets JIC. √

I betting bamboo is the next wood fiber replacement to make headway. But we will have to wait and see! ;-)

Miscanthus.
It's being touted as the "sugar cane of the north". I haven't heard anything yet but I'd almost bet that it will be looked at for cellulosic ethanol feedstock also.
Eucalyptus is also being looked at . It was listed as an invasive species but I believe I heard that was lifted in the US.
 
inevitabLEE said:
j-takeman said:
inevitabLEE said:
I've been on the raw material supply side of the pellet biz for many years. One minute markets are good the next they suck. It's been to hard to justify the expense of expansion in this market with ups/downs from year to year.
IMO, this and the recent growth of the pellet industry will breed/encourage more investment and diversity of different fuel types.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you're in the market for a stove, a multifuel should be seriosly considered. The future of pellets will not only be wood based.

Multifuel stove √

Scrounge up a few viable replacements for wood pellets JIC. √

I betting bamboo is the next wood fiber replacement to make headway. But we will have to wait and see! ;-)

Miscanthus.
It's being touted as the "sugar cane of the north". I haven't heard anything yet but I'd almost bet that it will be looked at for cellulosic ethanol feedstock also.
Eucalyptus is also being looked at . It was listed as an invasive species but I believe I heard that was lifted in the US.

Miscanthus info, But for ethanol production. Can't seem to find info on feed stock for pellet fue.l~


Eucalyptus is romured to be the next jet fuel and no info for pellet feed stock.~

Some bamboo info here.~
http://www.chemicalskey.com/chemicals-p_472095_bamboo-pellets-for-fuel.htm

Check out the ash content! 1.1% ;-) We shall see!
 
Bamboo... 1.1% ash That will make most on this site crazy!
 
Augustine said:
Bamboo... 1.1% ash That will make most on this site crazy!

Why I'm plugging multifuel stoves to the new buyers. Are you willing to pay $400 clams for wood pellet fuel? Almost as crazy as paying more than $4 bucks for oil.

1.1% ash is about the lowest I have seen for a comparable fuel. Corn is around 1.2% and Cherry pits are close to corn(but both are also expensive). The field grasses are much higher with something in the 3% ash range.
 
^ouch!

there are some things that should be left unsaid.:)
 
If things get as ugly as $400 per ton. I would go old school and burn cord wood.
 
Every year since the big $2008, there have dooms day predictions of higher pellet prices. There were dozen of topic tiles discussing when when to jump in and buy pellet for fear of outrageous prices. Then out of no
where the box stores stepped into the scene and pellet prices when down. And they have stayed down but for some minor fluctuations We see regional difference such as on Long Island and the mid west. But all in all, the pellet industry has supplied us with a product that generally is not hyper inflated. Two big things not to be overlook when discussing pellet cost. One is transportation. I haven't seen or herd of any reduction in transportation prices. Another factor is that pellet burning is not for everyone. This is one form of heating you have to work at. Can't help but feel that these two factors will be the most major influences on pricing pellets.
 
^^^^^^SLAP! Ouch!^^^^^^^

Thanks save$, Guess we needed that! Does seem we get all googled with the doom and gloom!

What gets me, Why can't these other countries grow their own tree's? Many of the alternates that were listed are foreign to use. But we can grow them here! We should just send them some baby trees too get their own forests growing! :cheese:

Its our wood dang it! Speaking of wood I got to start a thread on some pellets I'd like to see made. Love to see Ash pellets from our local beetle killed and How about some Black locus. Bet they give the Douglas Fir's a run for their money!
 
The last two pellet purchases I made was a better and cheaper version of the same pellet, in fact the next to the last one was $80.00 a ton less than the very first one I bought in 2008. If pellets produced in the US become too expensive for Europe due to exchange rates likely a few more marginal standard grade and lower pellet plants in the US and Canada will go belly up or correct their product to meet domestic demand.

In other words I'm not that worried.

I won't even discuss what happens when the rubber hits the road when people who can barely use anything that requires more effort than push a button discover what one of these hybrid computer controlled mechanical beasts is all about. Go read the forum for a while and look over Craig's list.

New folks come on here wondering about shelf life and I've gone through some of the pallets at some big boxes to find 2 to 3 year old product in the yard at times. Can we say logistics sucks at times.

I'd be tempted to get a multi fuel stove just to burn standard grade pellets if they were available and reasonable but I haven't seen any standard grade pellets around here at all.

If you are worried about saw and planer mill fiber not being available due to the related home building industries being in the hopper (way down in the hopper by the way) there is always tree to pellet operations, so far there are plenty of trees.
 
SmokeyTheBear said:
The last two pellet purchases I made was a better and cheaper version of the same pellet, in fact the next to the last one was $80.00 a ton less than the very first one I bought in 2008. If pellets produced in the US become too expensive for Europe due to exchange rates likely a few more marginal standard grade and lower pellet plants in the US and Canada will go belly up or correct their product to meet domestic demand.

In other words I'm not that worried.

I won't even discuss what happens when the rubber hits the road when people who can barely use anything that requires more effort than push a button discover what one of these hybrid computer controlled mechanical beasts is all about. Go read the forum for a while and look over Craig's list.

New folks come on here wondering about shelf life and I've gone through some of the pallets at some big boxes to find 2 to 3 year old product in the yard at times. Can we say logistics sucks at times.

I'd be tempted to get a multi fuel stove just to burn standard grade pellets if they were available and reasonable but I haven't seen any standard grade pellets around here at all.

If you are worried about saw and planer mill fiber not being available due to the related home building industries being in the hopper (way down in the hopper by the way) there is always tree to pellet operations, so far there are plenty of trees.

Exchange rates are irrelevant when diesel in EU is around $10/gal and they are buying the end product (pellets) with the Euro. Only the raw material costs ($20-$50/ton) suffer the exchange rate . Most of these companies exporting pellets are European owned mills.
Shelf life will no longer be an issue as these markets in part are being developed to take up the slack of the US residential markets.
Stumpage prices and the cost of a whole tree chipping operation to make raw material for pellets are cost prohibitive.
 
I'm not certain how this factors into this discussion, but we've had a very mild winter so far. Long range for the northeast is for continued mild temps till the end of the month. People are using less natural gas, and those prices are going down because there's no where for it to go. My guess is, we're all burning less pellets, burning dino, etc. The supply keeps chugging, but buyers aren't burning as much. I'd expect discounting going on towards the end of the season. Manufacturers don't want to keep their stock for another 10 months or so. Too risky.
 
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