Harman room temp auto/manual observations

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jp0469

Member
Jan 23, 2011
51
Rochester, MA
I know that the differences in these modes have been discussed at great length and are well understood. However, I think I noticed something that I was not previously aware of before by placing a digital thermometer right near the stove temp sensor. (If this is not news, I apologize but I did do a forum search first.)

With outside temps around 15 here, I figured that the auto/manual switch, while in room temp mode, would have little effect since the stove would not be likely to go out at any point. There does seem to be a difference in the control strategy though. In room temp/manual, The stove appears to run at full output up to approx. 1.5 to 2 degrees above setpoint. Setpoint is a relative term because my Accentra has a knob and it's not very accurate to the increments printed around it. But for sake of argument, with a setpoint of 71.5, the stove runs with a large fire up to about 73-73.5 degrees. At that point, the stove goes into a low burn mode until the temp drops to about 1 to 1.5 degrees below setpoint (about 70-70.5). This cycle repeats resulting in a 2.5 to 3.5 degree swing (hysteresis).

If I stay in room temp mode but switch to auto, I observe that the stove constantly varies the fire size in order to hold room temp as steady as possible. Since switching about 2 hours ago, the room temp at the digital thermometer has only varied by a few tenths of a degree from the setpoint of 71.5 (70.9-71.6).

I don't know what this means for efficiency and pellet consumption but I found it interesting and I may do some more experimentation using a temperature datalogger that I have. I'll post some graphs if they appear useful.
 
jp0469 said:
I know that the differences in these modes have been discussed at great length and are well understood. However, I think I noticed something that I was not previously aware of before by placing a digital thermometer right near the stove temp sensor. (If this is not news, I apologize but I did do a forum search first.)

With outside temps around 15 here, I figured that the auto/manual switch, while in room temp mode, would have little effect since the stove would not be likely to go out at any point. There does seem to be a difference in the control strategy though. In room temp/manual, The stove appears to run at full output up to approx. 1.5 to 2 degrees above setpoint. Setpoint is a relative term because my Accentra has a knob and it's not very accurate to the increments printed around it. But for sake of argument, with a setpoint of 71.5, the stove runs with a large fire up to about 73-73.5 degrees. At that point, the stove goes into a low burn mode until the temp drops to about 1 to 1.5 degrees below setpoint (about 70-70.5). This cycle repeats resulting in a 2.5 to 3.5 degree swing (hysteresis).

If I stay in room temp mode but switch to auto, I observe that the stove constantly varies the fire size in order to hold room temp as steady as possible. Since switching about 2 hours ago, the room temp at the digital thermometer has only varied by a few tenths of a degree from the setpoint of 71.5 (70.9-71.6).

I don't know what this means for efficiency and pellet consumption but I found it interesting and I may do some more experimentation using a temperature datalogger that I have. I'll post some graphs if they appear useful.

Interesting and it does make sense. In auto the stove is trying ot avoid shutting down so it keeps the temp spot on for as long as it can. When it can no longer keep the temp the same , based on Harmans lowest allowable esp tempb in auto, the room temp will rise forcing the stove into shutdown mode.
 
In room temp the variance reported from Harman is 4 degrees, out in the field as well in my own home I do find a 6 degree variance. Do keep us informed. Maybe they need to go digital or maybe not
 
Defiant said:
In room temp the variance reported from Harman is 4 degrees, out in the field as well in my own home I do find a 6 degree variance. Do keep us informed. Maybe they need to go digital or maybe not
But does Harman specify whether that variance applies to room temp/manual or room temp/auto? Because it sure appears that there are 2 different control strategies being used. In RT/M, the controller acts like a simple thermostat toggling between a high and low burn. In RT/A, it acts more like a PID controller using a variable output, feedback loop to hold a tighter range on the setpoint.
 
When running mine on room temp/manual, I do see various different burn rates and outputs, not just a high low burn.
 
Cincinnati Kid said:
When running mine on room temp/manual, I do see various different burn rates and outputs, not just a high low burn.
How old is your stove? I believe that there have been control board modifications over the years.

My observations were not overly scientific either. I was just periodically looking at the digital thermometer. I'm going to try both modes on consecutive nights and plot the temps. I just want to do it using nights that have similar outside temps to eliminate some variability.
 
jp0469 said:
Cincinnati Kid said:
When running mine on room temp/manual, I do see various different burn rates and outputs, not just a high low burn.
How old is your stove? I believe that there have been control board modifications over the years.

My observations were not overly scientific either. I was just periodically looking at the digital thermometer. I'm going to try both modes on consecutive nights and plot the temps. I just want to do it using nights that have similar outside temps to eliminate some variability.


My stove is one month old.
 
I think there is a difference in which setting to run in. For me, manual mode works best for me. House stays the same temp day and night, and a full hopper will last longer. I only run in auto when outside temps are 40+
 
I know that the differences in these modes have been discussed at great length and are well understood. However, I think I noticed something that I was not previously aware of before by placing a digital thermometer right near the stove temp sensor. (If this is not news, I apologize but I did do a forum search first.)

With outside temps around 15 here, I figured that the auto/manual switch, while in room temp mode, would have little effect since the stove would not be likely to go out at any point. There does seem to be a difference in the control strategy though. In room temp/manual, The stove appears to run at full output up to approx. 1.5 to 2 degrees above setpoint. Setpoint is a relative term because my Accentra has a knob and it's not very accurate to the increments printed around it. But for sake of argument, with a setpoint of 71.5, the stove runs with a large fire up to about 73-73.5 degrees. At that point, the stove goes into a low burn mode until the temp drops to about 1 to 1.5 degrees below setpoint (about 70-70.5). This cycle repeats resulting in a 2.5 to 3.5 degree swing (hysteresis).

If I stay in room temp mode but switch to auto, I observe that the stove constantly varies the fire size in order to hold room temp as steady as possible. Since switching about 2 hours ago, the room temp at the digital thermometer has only varied by a few tenths of a degree from the setpoint of 71.5 (70.9-71.6).

I don't know what this means for efficiency and pellet consumption but I found it interesting and I may do some more experimentation using a temperature datalogger that I have. I'll post some graphs if they appear useful.

I did not monitor the temps as close as you did, but here is my humble opinion about this dilemma:
In full auto/room temp mode the target is room temp. The stove will attempt to maintain this target
by using variable fan speed and pellet usage. Does an excellent job even if outside temps rise.
It will shut down so the target is not exceeded. Just like any other controlled heater. Oil,Propane etc

In man/room temp the control is still to a room temp target but if outside temps rise, the stove will
not shut down. This will cause room temp to exceed target and pellets are wasted.

In stove temp mode the target is the temp of the stove. So it keeps the stove at a certain temp. Does a
very good job but totally ignores the room temp. This mode will give you a more constant feed rate but will waste pellets if outside/inside temps rise.

So I guess the question is what is the priority? Constant room temp with variable pellet use or constant pellet use
with variable room temp. How much it varies will depend on house insulation.
 
My Accentra has a July,2011 manufacture date and I notice in m/rt the reading on my t-stat stays within 1-2 deg. I also notice the pellet feed rate and fan vary to meet the demand for heat.
 
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