Newbie Question: Coal bed builds up to fast

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L

Lobanz

New Member
Jan 13, 2012
4
North Alabama
Just had a wood insert installed (Lopi Revere) and I'm still learning to use it. After a few reloads the coal bed is 4-6" thick and chunky (about the size of lava rocks in a gas grill, or maybe a bit bigger) and I can't put as much wood in it to burn overnight. I have to stop loading every few days and let the coals burn up. The coals alone don't seem to make much heat. Also, It seems like I'm making some charcoal in there too -- mostly in the back of the stove. Some coals are just black chunks that look like charcoal.

I tend to stack it full and then let it burn slowly. However, the first load of the day I let burn hot and fast.

Also, when I adjust it for slow burn, I let the wood get charred and the stove heated up and then make it so that there is just a very small amount of flame -- usually just thin blue whisps here and there. There are some coals left in the morning, but no wood burning. The coals alone don't seem to make much heat.

Any suggestions? Is there a better way to operate it?
 
Welcome to the forum!

Toward the end of the burn cycle I'll open up the air a bit to get the coals to burn down. Sometimes you will need to throw a small split in there to get the air moving over them fast enough.

Matt
 
I let the PE pretty much go through it's cycle, most of the time. Reload at 300F or so, get it cranking, and back her down in increments. Then we cruise at 700F or so for a few hours, and then it backs down slowly. How hot are you getting this thing?

There are times, like lately when it was really cold, that that is not possible, and a coal issue will develop. As Matt said, open up the air, rake 'em to the front, and if need be add a small well seasoned split should get it done. A piece of pine (seasoned) works well, too. Keep raking :) The few degrees your house should drop in temp, will be made up on the reload (as long as your reasonably insulated, ya da ya da).

Some times less than ideal wood will also result in a coaling issue. Something to keep in mind.

Welcome to the forums !
 
I have the same problem from time to time. I remove ash daily or everyother day, just because I usually dont allow the full heat cycle with the colder weather. Especially if use a lot of the harder wood. The smaller box, lends us to work around this, in which I'll remove and add more fresh fuel if need be.
 
Toward the end of each burn cycle open up the air and let the coals burn. I can usually keep the stove pretty hot for a while on coals, but then gradually the stove cools. I pull the coals to the front and add a split or two on top, leave the air open and burn mostly coals but also the splits. If I make it so the air can flow between the splits and the coals (make a channel in the coals) it burns coals most effectively. I have to burn coals a little each load or they accumulate.

I think on low burn you're burning lower than I do, and possibly too low to get the most out of the wood. If you aren't allowing enough air to see secondary flames a the top of the firebox (yours is a secondary tube type stove like mine, right?) then I think gases are escaping unburnt, and possibly you are accumulating creosote in the flue. i turn mine down only enough to keep the secondary flames on the top going, which usually means the primary flame coming from the wood (the flame you see in a campfire) is also burning at least a little.
 
I rake them to the front and throw an eco brick or two on top, that way the coals get burned down but the stove is still throwing some good heat.
 
sorry, double post, too impatient tonight
 
Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:
Some times less than ideal wood will also result in a coaling issue. Something to keep in mind.

Welcome to the forums !
Click to expand...

Yeah, for sure. Been there, done that. But some kinds of wood are more prone to this. I've got a nice big supply of totally dry beech I'm working through right now, which catches easily and gives great heat, but damn, it charcoals like crazy, so I don't use it for overnight anymore. Rock maple doesn't charcoal much, even with a long, low overnight burn, and red oak seems to do very well, too. But I'm really bummed by the beech, which I otherwise love. My little stove is just way too small to carry a big load of charcoal all day in cold weather, and I hate having to shovel out a lot of still hot charcoal into the ashcan every morning.
 
gyrfalcon said:
Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:
Some times less than ideal wood will also result in a coaling issue. Something to keep in mind.

Welcome to the forums !
Click to expand...

Yeah, for sure. Been there, done that. But some kinds of wood are more prone to this. I've got a nice big supply of totally dry beech I'm working through right now, which catches easily and gives great heat, but damn, it charcoals like crazy, so I don't use it for overnight anymore. Rock maple doesn't charcoal much, even with a long, low overnight burn, and red oak seems to do very well, too. But I'm really bummed by the beech, which I otherwise love. My little stove is just way too small to carry a big load of charcoal all day in cold weather, and I hate having to shovel out a lot of still hot charcoal into the ashcan every morning.
Click to expand...

When coals up real bad put one log on it east west.
 
weatherguy said:
I rake them to the front and throw an eco brick or two on top, that way the coals get burned down but the stove is still throwing some good heat.
Click to expand...

+1... works even in my old smoke dragon.

Also, make sure your air intake is throughly cleaned. I had to take mine apart. (Thanks BrotherBart!!)
 
I think its a known aspect of softwoods is that they leave more and bigger coals. But having said that I get plenty of coals with hardwoods sometimes too many. I also think its because my wood isnt super dry. My wood is 20% but guys on here that seem to have the best startups and fast startups seem to speak of 11-15% moisture wood.

Having too many coals is a good problem to have rather than no coals at all. If you get your stoves heat up fast with kindling like I do as I like a faster restarts than waiting on big splits on hot coals to build the heat in my stove, then raking those coals forward and burning some small stuff on top of the raked coals to burn them down will heat up the stove and flue to a higher level so then you can reload your bigger stuff with the hotter stove , flue and coals and your restart will be better with the higher heat. As with these stoves is all about the heat level so you can get them dampered back down for a long burn.
 
I am surprised you get little heat from a lot of coals, that seems to be when my insert starts cookin'. BUT--if they are mostly black, maybe your wood is not too dry, that is what happens to me. Rake them in a pile in the front, let the red coals burn the black coals, and put some kindling on top.

I have come to the conclusion that having a good fire is akin to baking a good loaf of bread--sometimes spectacular, sometimes--meh. Lots of factors are involved, and time and experience will help.
 
I'm in agreement with the cause being so-so wood, especially if the coals are dark.
To remedy, I also move the coals forward and burn with lots of primary air.... but first I push every thing back - ash and all. Then I try to pull just the coals up front, leaving the ash.
You want them exposed to the air.

gabe
 
Fod01 said:
I'm in agreement with the cause being so-so wood, especially if the coals are dark.
To remedy, I also move the coals forward and burn with lots of primary air.... but first I push every thing back - ash and all. Then I try to pull just the coals up front, leaving the ash.
You want them exposed to the air.

gabe
Click to expand...

Ditto. Alot of my wood has too much moisture and I get black, shiny coals toward the back of the stove often. The suggestions for raking forward and burning with small splits works well. What works even better is to put an eco block (which I just started using) on top - heats the stove right up and starts burning the chunks.
 
I love Ecobrick!! Just wish it wasn't so hard to come by. TSC in Westminter--"...Nope, we're out of them. No, we aren't getting any more in this season, even though your are the 5th person to ask..."
TSC up in Hanover (20 miles away), has plenty, but what a trip when you only have a car... :coolhmm:
 
Goodness. So many replies. I really appreciate all the advice.

I burn mostly red and white oak with some hickory. I harvested a lot of wood back in April during the big storms and I'm working on splitting it up. I'll split some and let it dry for a few weeks. I know it needs A LOT more time, but I don't want to buy wood (I get extremely frustrated because nobody around here has a clue what a cord is). Also, the rounds are stored on the north edge of the woods and don't get enough sunlight so they probably haven't dried like they should. However, if I lay one of these pieces on a hot bed of coals it burst into flame in 10-20 seconds or so. Been splitting it small to speed drying. But some of the larger pieces steam out the ends -- which is not good. Next year will be better.

Based the responses, I think the wood is not dry enough yet. I also may be burning too slow, but I doubt I would get a very long burn if I kept the secondary burn going all the time. Perhaps dry wood will fix that too.

One of my problems is wood storage. I'm gonna have to devote some covered space to storing firewood. May empty out a stall in the barn and cover the floor with shipping pallets and stack it to the ceiling in there. When I fill that up, I guess I will start stacking double rows on pallets laid down along fence rows. Trying to design something covered made out of pallets. Still thinking on it...

A few questions:

How do you measure moisture levels of wood? Do you use a meter, or do you just listen for that "musical" sound it makes when dry?

How do you measure the stove temperature in an insert? The Lopi Revere has a cook surface, but the PE Super does not. Also, what do you want to measure: the flue gases, or the outer flue pipe temp, stove top temp, or what?
 
A few questions:

How do you measure moisture levels of wood? Do you use a meter, or do you just listen for that “musical†sound it makes when dry?

How do you measure the stove temperature in an insert? The Lopi Revere has a cook surface, but the PE Super does not. Also, what do you want to measure: the flue gases, or the outer flue pipe temp, stove top temp, or what?

1.) Both. Moisture Meter can surprise you, though.

2.) Measure the Temp on the outside of the the flue pipe.

Good luck, I am just about out of dry stuff, myself. Next year I will be better.
 
Fod01 said:
I'm in agreement with the cause being so-so wood, especially if the coals are dark.
To remedy, I also move the coals forward and burn with lots of primary air.... but first I push every thing back - ash and all. Then I try to pull just the coals up front, leaving the ash.
You want them exposed to the air.

gabe
Click to expand...
I can get those with 13% Ash, I believe it can be caused by too deep of a ash bed and the air movement is not as good so they dont burn up as well.
 
corey21 said:
gyrfalcon said:
Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:
Some times less than ideal wood will also result in a coaling issue. Something to keep in mind.

Welcome to the forums !
Click to expand...

Yeah, for sure. Been there, done that. But some kinds of wood are more prone to this. I've got a nice big supply of totally dry beech I'm working through right now, which catches easily and gives great heat, but damn, it charcoals like crazy, so I don't use it for overnight anymore. Rock maple doesn't charcoal much, even with a long, low overnight burn, and red oak seems to do very well, too. But I'm really bummed by the beech, which I otherwise love. My little stove is just way too small to carry a big load of charcoal all day in cold weather, and I hate having to shovel out a lot of still hot charcoal into the ashcan every morning.
Click to expand...

When coals up real bad put one log on it east west.
Click to expand...

Not a real option with a too-small stove in a super-cold climate. The stove temp drops too far for too long, and then there's a struggle to get it back up again. I do it from time to time, but it doesn't reduce the charcoal enough quickly enough when the outside temps are in single digits or below.
 
oldspark said:
Fod01 said:
I'm in agreement with the cause being so-so wood, especially if the coals are dark.
To remedy, I also move the coals forward and burn with lots of primary air.... but first I push every thing back - ash and all. Then I try to pull just the coals up front, leaving the ash.
You want them exposed to the air.

gabe
Click to expand...
I can get those with 13% Ash, I believe it can be caused by too deep of a ash bed and the air movement is not as good so they dont burn up as well.
Click to expand...

I'll buy that all day. Did notice that the dark coals build more the deeper the ash gets.
 
oldspark said:
Fod01 said:
I'm in agreement with the cause being so-so wood, especially if the coals are dark.
To remedy, I also move the coals forward and burn with lots of primary air.... but first I push every thing back - ash and all. Then I try to pull just the coals up front, leaving the ash.
You want them exposed to the air.

gabe
Click to expand...
I can get those with 13% Ash, I believe it can be caused by too deep of a ash bed and the air movement is not as good so they dont burn up as well.
Click to expand...

+1

I think you're right, and that's probably the reason it's such a chronic problem with a really small stove. The bottom is pretty shallow, so it doesn't take much to fill it up with ashes.

I don't know what the color of the coals has to do with it. Charcoal is charcoal and it's black. It is true that insufficiently seasoned wood causes a lot of charcoaling, but it's not the only thing that does.
 
Before you spend time on a covered storage area I'd just split all those rounds and stack them with lots of air space in between. If you're burning unseasoned wood split small - 2 to 3 inches across, max - and it will burn better, I think. I am not sure if you can have long burns and few coals with unseasoned wood, but you'll find out the best compromise given your fuel and stove. Wood burning is an art.
 
Wood Duck said:
Before you spend time on a covered storage area I'd just split all those rounds and stack them with lots of air space in between.
Click to expand...

Working on it! I started with a stack 6' tall and 60' long. Got maybe 1/3 of it split.
 
Lobanz said:
One of my problems is wood storage. I'm gonna have to devote some covered space to storing firewood. May empty out a stall in the barn and cover the floor with shipping pallets and stack it to the ceiling in there. When I fill that up, I guess I will start stacking double rows on pallets laid down along fence rows. Trying to design something covered made out of pallets. Still thinking on it...
Click to expand...

Don't store your wood in the barn until it's totally seasoned and ready to go. It won't dry nearly as fast in there as it will outside.

Don't even bother covering the wood until you're a few weeks away from burning it, and that's only for convenience. Air circulation and sun are what season the wood, so you want as much of that as you can manage on your property. Water-wet from rain is only a fraction of an inch on the surface of the wood, dries off in a day when it stops raining, longer if you bring it inside wet (or you can put a fan on it to speed it up) but only hours if you have a place to stack it near the stove. And although water-wet wood may be a little harder to start a fire with, once you've got a bit of a fire going, you can toss those wet splits in and they'll dry out in seconds on the fire.

Honestly, you really don't care about water-wet wood except that it's unpleasant to handle. 'Dry' wood as in "seasoned' is a whole different dynamic and the process isn't affected by a rain storm now and then and much as it is by a reduction in air circulation.

The key to rapid seasoning is to split the wood down as far as you have the energy and time for, stack it as much in the open as possible, stack it in single rows as loosely as possible (criss-cross "log cabin" style where the wind can blow right through the
stacks works even better), and don't cover it. If all of those aren't options for you, do as many of them as you can.
 
gyrfalcon said:
Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:
Some times less than ideal wood will also result in a coaling issue. Something to keep in mind.

Welcome to the forums !
Click to expand...

Yeah, for sure. Been there, done that. But some kinds of wood are more prone to this. I've got a nice big supply of totally dry beech I'm working through right now, which catches easily and gives great heat, but damn, it charcoals like crazy, so I don't use it for overnight anymore. Rock maple doesn't charcoal much, even with a long, low overnight burn, and red oak seems to do very well, too. But I'm really bummed by the beech, which I otherwise love. My little stove is just way too small to carry a big load of charcoal all day in cold weather, and I hate having to shovel out a lot of still hot charcoal into the ashcan every morning.
Click to expand...

I've got similar issues on our Tribute.
What I've found that works the best is to push all the coals to the far left side of the box,
and "bank" a new load of firewood N/S, tucked agaist the right side.
Doing it this way I can go for days before having to scoop out any ash,
and it burn the coals down to nothing.
 
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