Forgetting to close the bypass damper

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huffdawg

huffdawg

Minister of Fire
Oct 3, 2009
1,457
British Columbia Canada
Talked to the wife on the phone and she said she loaded the stove lit the fire and turned on the boiler and left it with out closing the bypass damper . She went back twenty mins. later and noticed the boiler temp hadn't risen much then the light came on and she closed the damper. I'm sure many have done this before. would this cause any damage besides a hot chimney.


Huff
 
I've done this many times during the first year. Now sometimes I get all the way back to the house and wonder if I remembered to close it. Then all the way back out to check.
 
huffdawg said:
Talked to the wife on the phone and she said she loaded the stove lit the fire and turned on the boiler and left it with out closing the bypass damper . She went back twenty mins. later and noticed the boiler temp hadn't risen much then the light came on and she closed the damper. I'm sure many have done this before. would this cause any damage besides a hot chimney.


Huff
Click to expand...
With a pressure fan there shouldn't be any damage. An induced draft fan can heat up the motor windings though, Randy
 
Randy is right on. I can hear the induced draft fan make a different noise when the flu temps get to high. Someday I'll
forget to close the bypass and burn the fan up. Should probably order a spare.
 
The PID controller with K-type sensor which I mounted in my flue shuts the draft fan down if flue temp is excessive. Now, if it only also would close the damper.... It does provide a nice digital readout of flue temp. What more could I ask for?

Seriously, if I would leave the damper open, and I have, flue temps get really high.
 
My back fan didn't burn up, but it sounds awful on a lower fan setting now. When the damper is left open for a whole burn, it doesn't help the top door gasket either. >:-( Teach me to let my husband touch my boiler. It is a running joke with us that every time he loads it he messes something up.
 
dswitham said:
My back fan didn't burn up, but it sounds awful on a lower fan setting now. When the damper is left open for a whole burn, it doesn't help the top door gasket either. >:-( Teach me to let my husband touch my boiler. It is a running joke with us that every time he loads it he messes something up.
Click to expand...

I actually left the damper open once but I didn't tell my wife ;-)
 
I've had the damper blow open a few times due to extreme puffing. I now place a bungee cord on the handle just in case.
 
Don L said:
I've had the damper blow open a few times due to extreme puffing. I now place a bungee cord on the handle just in case.
Click to expand...

You must have excellent draft. Some times i'm thinking my draft is too good
 
huffdawg said:
Don L said:
I've had the damper blow open a few times due to extreme puffing. I now place a bungee cord on the handle just in case.
Click to expand...

You must have excellent draft. Some times i'm thinking my draft is too good
Click to expand...

Someone posted a link awhile back of how they welded a tab on the linkage under the side cover to connect a microswitch. I think they place to put a red light on the panel area when open and a green light when closed to help remind them. If my wife were loading the boiler I would do it today, I still might do it in the future. It would be a neat feature for those with a Arduino or Nofossil system to be able to report the position of the damper. Another easy solution would be a webcam focused on the boiler for those times when I could avoid walking down to the shed or I'm at work. I hope storage will avoid burning when I'm not home. Huffdawg those Panasonic cams run about $60-70 bucks. Going to order one today, will let you know how it works.
 
huskers said:
huffdawg said:
Don L said:
I've had the damper blow open a few times due to extreme puffing. I now place a bungee cord on the handle just in case.
Click to expand...

You must have excellent draft. Some times i'm thinking my draft is too good
Click to expand...

Someone posted a link awhile back of how they welded a tab on the linkage under the side cover to connect a microswitch. I think they place to put a red light on the panel area when open and a green light when closed to help remind them. If my wife were loading the boiler I would do it today, I still might do it in the future. It would be a neat feature for those with a Arduino or Nofossil system to be able to report the position of the damper. Another easy solution would be a webcam focused on the boiler for those times when I could avoid walking down to the shed or I'm at work. I hope storage will avoid burning when I'm not home. Huffdawg those Panasonic cams run about $60-70 bucks. Going to order one today, will let you know how it works.
Click to expand...

Huskers my boiler is through a door in the back of my shop . I only have to walk about 15 feet of breeze way outdoors which is nice.
I don't think a flashing light would work for my wife but an audible alarm would . :lol: Thats a great idea! I also wouldn't mind a web cam so I could observe the boiler and my wife of course. Yup something else to add to the bucket list.

Huff
 
jebatty said:
The PID controller with K-type sensor which I mounted in my flue shuts the draft fan down if flue temp is excessive. Now, if it only also would close the damper.... It does provide a nice digital readout of flue temp. What more could I ask for?

Seriously, if I would leave the damper open, and I have, flue temps get really high.
Click to expand...

Can't close the bypass damper, but can modulate the draft inlet damper with closed-loop flue temperature control:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/69395/P45/

I left the bypass damper open once and was working outside when I noticed smokey exhaust due to no secondary combustion. The draft inlet was choked right down, but the stack temperature was right at setpoint!

--ewd
 
I did this the other day, and left it for over an hour.....Must be THE classic Newbie mistake....... I checked everything out good and didn't notice anything odd. Because the damper isn't closed, there is no gasification, so lots of wasted heat & energy. But, if your stack is right, then it should handle "normal" flue temps. My EKO 60 didn't get hot, the flue wasn't even close to hot and the water temps were below max--which is how I noticed the damper open..."Hmmm seems like the boiler should be cranking out more temp than that...."

I was considering how to make the damper a bit more fool-proof.....I regularly forget to do basic, simple stuff....walk away from the filling stock tank and let it over flow....forget to turn the master switch off on the pumper engine I drive.... Signs work well, but after a while you become blind to them. I also need something simple so the kids and wife can run the boiler and check on it while I'm away....SO, I considered painting the damper lever with a couple of colors......Yellow to highlight that it needs attention. This would be painted from the knob to the In/open position. When the lever is pulled out it would go from yellow to red on the shaft meaning heat. Haven't done it yet. But something to think about......
 
Don L said:
I've had the damper blow open a few times due to extreme puffing. I now place a bungee cord on the handle just in case.
Click to expand...

Wait....how can that happen?? My damper lever is so stiff I have to yard on it to open & close....& I've only had my boiler in service less than a week. Is there something I'm missing?? Should I lube it up somehow?
 
huskers said:
huffdawg said:
It would be a neat feature for those with a Arduino or Nofossil system to be able to report the position of the damper.
Click to expand...

Great Idea!

I will place a micro switch on my damper so my NFCS can detect if the damper is open. If so the NFCS can send me an Email alert.
Click to expand...
 
HeatFarmer said:
Don L said:
I've had the damper blow open a few times due to extreme puffing. I now place a bungee cord on the handle just in case.
Click to expand...

Wait....how can that happen?? My damper lever is so stiff I have to yard on it to open & close....& I've only had my boiler in service less than a week. Is there something I'm missing?? Should I lube it up somehow?
Click to expand...

Damper should not be stiff. Has it always been stiff? Hard to move damper is usually the result of build up in the exchange tubes or bent turbulators or mechanism.
 
Don L said:
HeatFarmer said:
Don L said:
I've had the damper blow open a few times due to extreme puffing. I now place a bungee cord on the handle just in case.
Click to expand...

Wait....how can that happen?? My damper lever is so stiff I have to yard on it to open & close....& I've only had my boiler in service less than a week. Is there something I'm missing?? Should I lube it up somehow?
Click to expand...

Damper should not be stiff. Has it always been stiff? Hard to move damper is usually the result of build up in the exchange tubes or bent turbulators or mechanism.
Click to expand...

Does your boiler idle at all and whats the moisture content of your wood HF.
 
Don L said:
I've had the damper blow open a few times due to extreme puffing. I now place a bungee cord on the handle just in case.
Click to expand...

I put a spring clamp on mine just in case. How about a metal flip tab that lock in place when damper is closed?

gg
 
huffdawg said:
Don L said:
HeatFarmer said:
Don L said:
I've had the damper blow open a few times due to extreme puffing. I now place a bungee cord on the handle just in case.
Click to expand...

Wait....how can that happen?? My damper lever is so stiff I have to yard on it to open & close....& I've only had my boiler in service less than a week. Is there something I'm missing?? Should I lube it up somehow?
Click to expand...

Damper should not be stiff. Has it always been stiff? Hard to move damper is usually the result of build up in the exchange tubes or bent turbulators or mechanism.
Click to expand...

Does your boiler idle at all and whats the moisture content of your wood HF.
Click to expand...

Normally it does not idle. However when storage temps get high, about 90C (190f) it will start to idle. When that happens the NFCS will try to dump heat into the shop radiate floor in order to bring the boiler out of idle. The shop floor is a great storage medium and takes over when the pressurized storage is at max capacity. Moisture content varies because I burn a wide variety of hardwoods cut and split at about the same time. Different wood dries at different rates. Having said that, I would estimate that the average wood be 20% or less.
 
Don L said:
huskers said:
huffdawg said:
It would be a neat feature for those with a Arduino or Nofossil system to be able to report the position of the damper.
Click to expand...

Great Idea!

I will place a micro switch on my damper so my NFCS can detect if the damper is open. If so the NFCS can send me an Email alert.
Click to expand...

That would be a great idea, except I don't know how to get my NFCS to send me an email alert.
Click to expand...
 
Don L said:
HeatFarmer said:
Don L said:
I've had the damper blow open a few times due to extreme puffing. I now place a bungee cord on the handle just in case.
Click to expand...

Wait....how can that happen?? My damper lever is so stiff I have to yard on it to open & close....& I've only had my boiler in service less than a week. Is there something I'm missing?? Should I lube it up somehow?
Click to expand...

Damper should not be stiff. Has it always been stiff? Hard to move damper is usually the result of build up in the exchange tubes or bent turbulators or mechanism.
Click to expand...

It's been hard to operate since day 1. It doesn't require a pry bar or anything, but it sticks and certainly doesn't slide easily. The turbulator cleaning thingy works smoothly. Just surprised by how hard the damper operates.
 
HeatFarmer said:
Does your boiler idle at all and whats the moisture content of your wood HF.
Click to expand...

My boiler is idling more than I'd like it too.... My storage will sit in the 170-177º range for hours while the boiler idles between 195-199º. Wood is less then ideal. I'm trying to use a mix of drier wood 18-20% which I don't have much of, and 22-24% which I have a ton of.... Most of the wood I have is mixed hardwood and I've been burning a lot of unsplitable small limb wood.

I know the wood is causing an issue. I have also been trying like crazy to insulate pipes and boiler room better....I've just been out there building a door and it is probably 24º in there with the boiler going. Strong north wind and lack of a proper door there now are contributing factors....

Yesterday I managed to insulate the storage supply loop and some of the return loop and got a 4º rise in storage in a short time. I've begun to chart how long it takes to raise storage temps from AM to PM. I know I have to wrap the 100ft of supply/return Pex in fiberglass. It's got R2 foam on it now, but it runs along the north side of the house in an unheated attic. I was just up there and could detect major heat loss with my hands, but I am sure it is there... Might have to borrow the Thermal Imaging Camera from our Fire Dept to check out heat losses.

I've also been questioning if my supply/return boiler loop pump is strong enough. Been running an Taco 010 on speed 3...with the lift I have to get to the primary loop it may just be pushing 8gpm or less.....
 
I confess I left my damper open one time.
Loaded the firebox with some big chunks of pine.
Wow - did it ever get hot with its natural draft!
Flue pipe from the boiler to the chimney got red hot.
It actually caught some of the red hi-temp silicone on the flue pipe on FIRE!
(Little 2" high flames, left an ashy residue.)
The boiler was about 240F.
My dump zone (basement concrete floor) couldn't keep up with the hot water production.
Thankfully my son came home from school and called me.
I had him close the damper and fill the bathtub (we pre-heat our domestic water).
That got things back to normal.
I haven't forgotten since!
 
HeatFarmer said:
Don L said:
HeatFarmer said:
Don L said:
I've had the damper blow open a few times due to extreme puffing. I now place a bungee cord on the handle just in case.
Click to expand...

Wait....how can that happen?? My damper lever is so stiff I have to yard on it to open & close....& I've only had my boiler in service less than a week. Is there something I'm missing?? Should I lube it up somehow?
Click to expand...

Damper should not be stiff. Has it always been stiff? Hard to move damper is usually the result of build up in the exchange tubes or bent turbulators or mechanism.
Click to expand...

It's been hard to operate since day 1. It doesn't require a pry bar or anything, but it sticks and certainly doesn't slide easily. The turbulator cleaning thingy works smoothly. Just surprised by how hard the damper operates.
Click to expand...

Sorry, bad info on my part. We are talking about the damper, and somehow I started thinking about the turbulators/arm.

the damper can become stuck due to creosote buildup.
 
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