Uh Oh...Wood is Wetter Than I Thought......Advice?

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gyrfalcon said:
firebroad said:
I love how dealers tell you it is "seasoned and ready to burn". This guy that is delivering tonight insists that his wood (Oak) is cut from "Dead trees, so there is no sap left in them. I burn it myself, just let is sit for about three weeks." I did not argue with him, but it was hard not to laugh.
Click to expand...

I don't know what the situation is in your neck of the woods, but where I am, a very large number of people heat with wood, and only a small fraction of those are using EPA stoves. Most are working with ancient "smoke dragons" that will burn anything. A large number have their own woodlots and cut their own fuel, plus a few extra cords to sell to their neighbors who don't have woodlots. They do not cut it and stack for two years before burning. (Some of these larger, drafty old farmhouses with inefficient old stoves burn as much as 20 or 25 cords a year.) Many don't cut until they run out.

Bottom line, the accepted standard around here, and I suspect in most rural parts of the country, for "seasoned" is wood that was cut down in the spring or early summer. I've had more than one person shake their heads sadly at my insistence on having dry wood, telling me it won't burn as well and won't give as much heat.

So before you decide somebody is cheating you, consider that their definition of "seasoned" wood may well be the old one, not the one we minority of new-fangled EPA stove burners use.

There are actually few wood sellers stupid enough to deliberately cheat a potential regular new customer.
Click to expand...

I ran a 1985 VC Resolute "Smoke Dragon" and it burned lousy on unseasoned wood. Even the old stoves run better on seasoned wood, it's just a matter of degree and the laws of physics.
But I agree, the definition of "seasoned" is subject to interpretation, so the buyer has to ask all the right questions for his particular situation.
 
"I ran a 1985 VC Resolute “Smoke Dragon†and it burned lousy on unseasoned wood. Even the old stoves run better on seasoned wood, it’s just a matter of degree and the laws of physics"
+1, been saying that since I joined this site but you know legends are hard to kill.
 
I my self run out of seasoned firewood this week tried to burn some of next years wood it just hissed at me. After my first year with wet wood i don't like burning wet firewood unless it is a emergency.
 
gyrfalcon said:
firebroad said:
I love how dealers tell you it is "seasoned and ready to burn". This guy that is delivering tonight insists that his wood (Oak) is cut from "Dead trees, so there is no sap left in them. I burn it myself, just let is sit for about three weeks." I did not argue with him, but it was hard not to laugh.
Click to expand...

I don't know what the situation is in your neck of the woods, but where I am, a very large number of people heat with wood, and only a small fraction of those are using EPA stoves. Most are working with ancient "smoke dragons" that will burn anything. A large number have their own woodlots and cut their own fuel, plus a few extra cords to sell to their neighbors who don't have woodlots. They do not cut it and stack for two years before burning. (Some of these larger, drafty old farmhouses with inefficient old stoves burn as much as 20 or 25 cords a year.) Many don't cut until they run out.

Bottom line, the accepted standard around here, and I suspect in most rural parts of the country, for "seasoned" is wood that was cut down in the spring or early summer. I've had more than one person shake their heads sadly at my insistence on having dry wood, telling me it won't burn as well and won't give as much heat.

So before you decide somebody is cheating you, consider that their definition of "seasoned" wood may well be the old one, not the one we minority of new-fangled EPA stove burners use.

There are actually few wood sellers stupid enough to deliberately cheat a potential regular new customer.
Click to expand...

The OP and I both talked to this guy and his description of seasoned wood was the trees were cut one year ago and he split them a month or two before he delivered. Around here its different, seasoned means its been split for one year, this guy has got more than one complaint for using this description as most people around here are fairly new to burning and have modern stoves. I was fortunate to ask when the wood was split so I didnt buy any from the guy, turns out its been fairly mild and I have plenty of wood anyway, unfortunately the OP learned a lesson the hard way because there are many people in our area that sell truly seasoned wood, although some dont know that oak split and seasoned for one year isnt going to cut it, at least they're upfront about when its split.
 
Wood dries faster from the ends than from the sides. Splitting it will help it dry as fast as cutting it shorter. Get a miter saw and cut your splits in half length ways and put them in totes in the stove room. I burn slab wood and much of it comes in too long, so I have to cut 6 inches or so off the then. These short pieces dry in a day or two outside in the summer.
 
gyrfalcon said:
firebroad said:
I love how dealers tell you it is "seasoned and ready to burn". This guy that is delivering tonight insists that his wood (Oak) is cut from "Dead trees, so there is no sap left in them. I burn it myself, just let is sit for about three weeks." I did not argue with him, but it was hard not to laugh.
Click to expand...

I don't know what the situation is in your neck of the woods, but where I am, a very large number of people heat with wood, and only a small fraction of those are using EPA stoves. Most are working with ancient "smoke dragons" that will burn anything. A large number have their own woodlots and cut their own fuel, plus a few extra cords to sell to their neighbors who don't have woodlots. They do not cut it and stack for two years before burning. (Some of these larger, drafty old farmhouses with inefficient old stoves burn as much as 20 or 25 cords a year.) Many don't cut until they run out.

Bottom line, the accepted standard around here, and I suspect in most rural parts of the country, for "seasoned" is wood that was cut down in the spring or early summer. I've had more than one person shake their heads sadly at my insistence on having dry wood, telling me it won't burn as well and won't give as much heat.

So before you decide somebody is cheating you, consider that their definition of "seasoned" wood may well be the old one, not the one we minority of new-fangled EPA stove burners use.

There are actually few wood sellers stupid enough to deliberately cheat a potential regular new customer.
Click to expand...

Never said anyone was cheating me, just that I won't laugh.
 
fire_man said:
I ran a 1985 VC Resolute "Smoke Dragon" and it burned lousy on unseasoned wood. Even the old stoves run better on seasoned wood, it's just a matter of degree and the laws of physics.
But I agree, the definition of "seasoned" is subject to interpretation, so the buyer has to ask all the right questions for his particular situation.
Click to expand...

No question, but you mostly can't convince these folks of that fact. They've been getting through VT winters their entire lives burning wood this way, as did their parents and grandparents, and who the heck am I to tell them they've all been doing it wrong?

So far, I've met exactly one person, a very smart retired farmer who does some work around the place for me from time to time, who figured out many years ago that dry wood burns better and more efficiently in any situation, and he tells me he gets constant ribbing from his friends about drying his firewood. Around here, you just don't see piles of fresh firewood dumped in the drive and growing stacks next to the house until fall.
 
firebroad said:
Never said anyone was cheating me, just that I won't laugh.
Click to expand...

OK. I apologize for putting words in your mouth. But I do see the word "cheat" often in this forum from others about the same situation.
 
karl said:
Wood dries faster from the ends than from the sides. Splitting it will help it dry as fast as cutting it shorter. Get a miter saw and cut your splits in half length ways and put them in totes in the stove room. I burn slab wood and much of it comes in too long, so I have to cut 6 inches or so off the then. These short pieces dry in a day or two outside in the summer.
Click to expand...

If wood dried faster from the ends, why would we need to split? I do think bark is a barrier to drying, but think re-splitting will open up a whole lot more fresh surface area for moisture to escape from than cutting shorter. It's a much longer trip for moisture from the center of wood to the ends, as opposed to the sides. Slab wood usually dries pretty fast anyway, relatively speaking, and I think that's because of all the exposed wood surface.
 
gyrfalcon said:
fire_man said:
I ran a 1985 VC Resolute "Smoke Dragon" and it burned lousy on unseasoned wood. Even the old stoves run better on seasoned wood, it's just a matter of degree and the laws of physics.
But I agree, the definition of "seasoned" is subject to interpretation, so the buyer has to ask all the right questions for his particular situation.
Click to expand...

No question, but you mostly can't convince these folks of that fact. They've been getting through VT winters their entire lives burning wood this way, as did their parents and grandparents, and who the heck am I to tell them they've all been doing it wrong?

So far, I've met exactly one person, a very smart retired farmer who does some work around the place for me from time to time, who figured out many years ago that dry wood burns better and more efficiently in any situation, and he tells me he gets constant ribbing from his friends about drying his firewood. Around here, you just don't see piles of fresh firewood dumped in the drive and growing stacks next to the house until fall.
Click to expand...

Around here a lot of people think i am crazy about how i dry my wood.
 
I too know people who actually believe and practice wet wood burning because they think that is the only way to hold a fire. In their words dry wood just burns up too fast. And yes the whole industry is built up around just in time practices.
 
gyrfalcon said:
firebroad said:
Never said anyone was cheating me, just that I won't laugh.
Click to expand...

OK. I apologize for putting words in your mouth. But I do see the word "cheat" often in this forum from others about the same situation.
Click to expand...

Actually this gentleman was being quite honest about his wood, told me it was cut this summer. This is why I chose to buy from him, I would rather have an honest answer rather than what he thought I wanted to hear.
 
Wow....Thanks for the replies everyone!!!! Some comments/observations/responses:

1. I built a 4'x6' rack in my stove room. It holds a quarter cord if stacked properly. I also have 2 large rubbermaid totes filled with pallets. This will last me 7-10 days depending on the climate. I did notice that the end of the 7-10 days the wood burned better than during the beginning. So short of filling my entire house up with wood, this is the best I can do. The indoor relative humidity has been in the upper teens, low 20's.

2. The definition of "seasoned" wood in the eyes of the seller has not changed in 10,000 years. Seasoned wood meant it was cut last season, meaning the summer or fall, therefor it has "seasoned over". Green meant "just cut right now". With the introduction of the EPA stoves there is now a conflict between the traditional definition of seasoned wood and wood that is scientifically considered seasoned.

3. Being a first time burner I have been sweeping once per month. My first sweeping I got 2 cups (shoulder season). My second sweeping after burning all December I got 1 cup. I'll be sweeping again Feb 1, we'll see what I get.

4. An observation. I've been having successful burns without smouldering or smoking, it just takes longer for the fire to get going and it takes more effort to tune the fire. It also takes a carefully stacked N/S pile to allow for airflow. I generally have to run with the intake open more until the wood has completely dried out, then its business as usual. I have also been running the stove hotter than I normally would to not only keep it from smoking but to prevent creosote build up. I go through wood faster and the house stays warmer but its probably safer.

5. And yes....Super Cedars still get the fire going no matter how wet.

6. I always take my moisture readings from the middle of a freshly split piece. Low-mid 20's for the average pieces, upper 20's for the big pieces.

7. Most importantly... I AM ALL SET FOR NEXT YEAR!!! I have two cords of oak that were bucked in January of 2011 and split during the summer. They are almost as dry as the stuff I'm burning! Probably around 30%. I have two cords of black cherry, ash, and maple that I'm splitting now. These were cut down last spring and bucked during the summer. I understand these to be fast drying woods and should be fully seasoned by next winter.

In a few months I will be splitting wood for the season after next.
 
BurnIt13 said:
Wow....Thanks for the replies everyone!!!! Some comments/observations/responses:

1. I built a 4'x6' rack in my stove room. It holds a quarter cord if stacked properly. I also have 2 large rubbermaid totes filled with pallets. This will last me 7-10 days depending on the climate. I did notice that the end of the 7-10 days the wood burned better than during the beginning. So short of filling my entire house up with wood, this is the best I can do. The indoor relative humidity has been in the upper teens, low 20's.

2. The definition of "seasoned" wood in the eyes of the seller has not changed in 10,000 years. Seasoned wood meant it was cut last season, meaning the summer or fall, therefor it has "seasoned over". Green meant "just cut right now". With the introduction of the EPA stoves there is now a conflict between the traditional definition of seasoned wood and wood that is scientifically considered seasoned.

3. Being a first time burner I have been sweeping once per month. My first sweeping I got 2 cups (shoulder season). My second sweeping after burning all December I got 1 cup. I'll be sweeping again Feb 1, we'll see what I get.

4. An observation. I've been having successful burns without smouldering or smoking, it just takes longer for the fire to get going and it takes more effort to tune the fire. It also takes a carefully stacked N/S pile to allow for airflow. I generally have to run with the intake open more until the wood has completely dried out, then its business as usual. I have also been running the stove hotter than I normally would to not only keep it from smoking but to prevent creosote build up. I go through wood faster and the house stays warmer but its probably safer.

5. And yes....Super Cedars still get the fire going no matter how wet.

6. I always take my moisture readings from the middle of a freshly split piece. Low-mid 20's for the average pieces, upper 20's for the big pieces.

7. Most importantly... I AM ALL SET FOR NEXT YEAR!!! I have two cords of oak that were bucked in January of this year and split during the summer. They are almost as dry as the stuff I'm burning! Probably around 30%. I have three cords of black cherry, ash, and maple that I'm splitting now. These were cut down last spring and bucked during the summer. I understand these to be fast drying woods and should be fully seasoned by next winter.

In a few months I will be splitting wood for the season after next.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you're doing just great. My experience with less than perfectly seasoned wood was the same as yours-- a little harder to keep things going right, wider air, etc., using more wood, but still mostly keeping warm and not having a big creosote accumulation.

20s in the middle of a freshly split piece are not far off from what you want.

Can't speak to the cherry, but ash and all kinds of maple are fast-drying. My first year as a noob, I had a load of what turned out to be unburnable fairly large rock maple splits delivered in the fall that ended up sitting against the north side of my barn all winter and and turned out to actually be burnable by spring. It was perfect by the following winter, but it was burnable after four months sitting out of the wind in the shade over the winter.
 
gyrfalcon said:
BurnIt13 said:
Wow....Thanks for the replies everyone!!!! Some comments/observations/responses:

1. I built a 4'x6' rack in my stove room. It holds a quarter cord if stacked properly. I also have 2 large rubbermaid totes filled with pallets. This will last me 7-10 days depending on the climate. I did notice that the end of the 7-10 days the wood burned better than during the beginning. So short of filling my entire house up with wood, this is the best I can do. The indoor relative humidity has been in the upper teens, low 20's.

2. The definition of "seasoned" wood in the eyes of the seller has not changed in 10,000 years. Seasoned wood meant it was cut last season, meaning the summer or fall, therefor it has "seasoned over". Green meant "just cut right now". With the introduction of the EPA stoves there is now a conflict between the traditional definition of seasoned wood and wood that is scientifically considered seasoned.

3. Being a first time burner I have been sweeping once per month. My first sweeping I got 2 cups (shoulder season). My second sweeping after burning all December I got 1 cup. I'll be sweeping again Feb 1, we'll see what I get.

4. An observation. I've been having successful burns without smouldering or smoking, it just takes longer for the fire to get going and it takes more effort to tune the fire. It also takes a carefully stacked N/S pile to allow for airflow. I generally have to run with the intake open more until the wood has completely dried out, then its business as usual. I have also been running the stove hotter than I normally would to not only keep it from smoking but to prevent creosote build up. I go through wood faster and the house stays warmer but its probably safer.

5. And yes....Super Cedars still get the fire going no matter how wet.

6. I always take my moisture readings from the middle of a freshly split piece. Low-mid 20's for the average pieces, upper 20's for the big pieces.

7. Most importantly... I AM ALL SET FOR NEXT YEAR!!! I have two cords of oak that were bucked in January of this year and split during the summer. They are almost as dry as the stuff I'm burning! Probably around 30%. I have three cords of black cherry, ash, and maple that I'm splitting now. These were cut down last spring and bucked during the summer. I understand these to be fast drying woods and should be fully seasoned by next winter.

In a few months I will be splitting wood for the season after next.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you're doing just great. My experience with less than perfectly seasoned wood was the same as yours-- a little harder to keep things going right, wider air, etc., using more wood, but still mostly keeping warm and not having a big creosote accumulation.

20s in the middle of a freshly split piece are not far off from what you want.

Can't speak to the cherry, but ash and all kinds of maple are fast-drying. My first year as a noob, I had a load of what turned out to be unburnable fairly large rock maple splits delivered in the fall that ended up sitting against the north side of my barn all winter and and turned out to actually be burnable by spring. It was perfect by the following winter, but it was burnable after four months sitting out of the wind in the shade over the winter.
Click to expand...

+1, you're doing about as good as you can.

Can you also move some outdoor wood to the basement, along with having the rack in the stove room? Sort of a staging place - it should get the drying started ahead of hitting the stove room. A strategically placed lazy fan will also help a lot, especially with those low humidity levels.
 
BurnIt13 said:
Wow....Thanks for the replies everyone!!!! Some comments/observations/responses:

1. I built a 4'x6' rack in my stove room. It holds a quarter cord if stacked properly. I also have 2 large rubbermaid totes filled with pallets. This will last me 7-10 days depending on the climate. I did notice that the end of the 7-10 days the wood burned better than during the beginning. So short of filling my entire house up with wood, this is the best I can do. The indoor relative humidity has been in the upper teens, low 20's.

2. The definition of "seasoned" wood in the eyes of the seller has not changed in 10,000 years. Seasoned wood meant it was cut last season, meaning the summer or fall, therefor it has "seasoned over". Green meant "just cut right now". With the introduction of the EPA stoves there is now a conflict between the traditional definition of seasoned wood and wood that is scientifically considered seasoned.

3. Being a first time burner I have been sweeping once per month. My first sweeping I got 2 cups (shoulder season). My second sweeping after burning all December I got 1 cup. I'll be sweeping again Feb 1, we'll see what I get.

4. An observation. I've been having successful burns without smouldering or smoking, it just takes longer for the fire to get going and it takes more effort to tune the fire. It also takes a carefully stacked N/S pile to allow for airflow. I generally have to run with the intake open more until the wood has completely dried out, then its business as usual. I have also been running the stove hotter than I normally would to not only keep it from smoking but to prevent creosote build up. I go through wood faster and the house stays warmer but its probably safer.

5. And yes....Super Cedars still get the fire going no matter how wet.

6. I always take my moisture readings from the middle of a freshly split piece. Low-mid 20's for the average pieces, upper 20's for the big pieces.

7. Most importantly... I AM ALL SET FOR NEXT YEAR!!! I have two cords of oak that were bucked in January of 2011 and split during the summer. They are almost as dry as the stuff I'm burning! Probably around 30%. I have two cords of black cherry, ash, and maple that I'm splitting now. These were cut down last spring and bucked during the summer. I understand these to be fast drying woods and should be fully seasoned by next winter.

In a few months I will be splitting wood for the season after next.
Click to expand...

As the other two posters mentioned, your doing about everything you can right, I just wanted to add that tractor supply has the large bio bricks on sale for $2.00, you get 3 large bricks per pack, if you threw one of the bricks in while your burning it may help out. Just thought Id mention that while they're cheap.
 
maple1 said:
Can you also move some outdoor wood to the basement, along with having the rack in the stove room? Sort of a staging place - it should get the drying started ahead of hitting the stove room. A strategically placed lazy fan will also help a lot, especially with those low humidity levels.
Click to expand...

Thats a good idea. I'm going to move a half of a cord from outside into my basement. When the quarter of a cord that is in the stove room runs out I will get the wood from the basement. Then I'll replenish the wood in the basement. That will give the wood an extra week indoors. It's triple the work but worth it in the long run.

The basement is 48-50 degrees and has 50% humidityso its not ideal drying conditions but it beats being outside!
 
BurnIt13 said:
maple1 said:
Can you also move some outdoor wood to the basement, along with having the rack in the stove room? Sort of a staging place - it should get the drying started ahead of hitting the stove room. A strategically placed lazy fan will also help a lot, especially with those low humidity levels.
Click to expand...

Thats a good idea. I'm going to move a half of a cord from outside into my basement. When the quarter of a cord that is in the stove room runs out I will get the wood from the basement. Then I'll replenish the wood in the basement. That will give the wood an extra week indoors. It's triple the work but worth it in the long run.

The basement is 48-50 degrees and has 50% humidityso its not ideal drying conditions but it beats being outside!
Click to expand...

With that high humidity and low temperature in the basement, I'm really not sure you're going to gain very much from all that extra effort. If it was me, I'd leave it outside where it'll be exposed to lower humidity and much more air circulation.
 
I'd also suggest that planning ahead with the outdoors stacks is very important. You definitely want your "this season" stacks protected above from the rain, off the ground, exposed to the southwesterlies. You also want the other stacks protected similarly from snow & rain, especially the ones you might draw on this season.

You've no doubt heard "don't cover the stacks." IMHO that's pure nonsense- a folded or twice-folded tarp on the top will divert most of the water to the ground. With a summer/fall like we just had, otherwise I'd have had a fungus-farm. Much of that covered wood is now around 15% MC, and dries much more near the stove once buzzed in half to fit my stove.

I've found that I can stack wood with the butts a couple of inches from the stove. Just not for real long. They dry like crazy. Then rotate, end -> end and move further away. Makes a HUGE difference in how they burn.
 
CTYank said:
I'd also suggest that planning ahead with the outdoors stacks is very important. You definitely want your "this season" stacks protected above from the rain, off the ground, exposed to the southwesterlies. You also want the other stacks protected similarly from snow & rain, especially the ones you might draw on this season.

You've no doubt heard "don't cover the stacks." IMHO that's pure nonsense- a folded or twice-folded tarp on the top will divert most of the water to the ground. With a summer/fall like we just had, otherwise I'd have had a fungus-farm. Much of that covered wood is now around 15% MC, and dries much more near the stove once buzzed in half to fit my stove.

I've found that I can stack wood with the butts a couple of inches from the stove. Just not for real long. They dry like crazy. Then rotate, end -> end and move further away. Makes a HUGE difference in how they burn.
Click to expand...

I do that with every "next" load, put the splits close to the stove and really dry them out, I wouldnt do it and leave, I only do it when Im in the stove room.
 
CTYank said:
You've no doubt heard "don't cover the stacks." IMHO that's pure nonsense- a folded or twice-folded tarp on the top will divert most of the water to the ground. With a summer/fall like we just had, otherwise I'd have had a fungus-farm. Much of that covered wood is now around 15% MC, and dries much more near the stove once buzzed in half to fit my stove.
Click to expand...

Absolutely this is true! Especially don't leave those stacks uncovered if you are 3 years ahead and expect your wood to last.

Simple equation:

WOOD + H2O + Time = ROT
 
weatherguy said:
I just wanted to add that tractor supply has the large bio bricks on sale for $2.00, you get 3 large bricks per pack, if you threw one of the bricks in while your burning it may help out.
Click to expand...

Have you seen these at your TSC before? I've been haunting ours just in case they got more of the regular 8 pack/packs in and haven't seen hide nor hair of any kind of ecobrick. One TSC nearby did tell me before Christmas they were expecting some type of substitute in for the Ecobricks but didn't know what it was or when it was coming.
 
CTYank said:
I'd also suggest that planning ahead with the outdoors stacks is very important. You definitely want your "this season" stacks protected above from the rain, off the ground, exposed to the southwesterlies. You also want the other stacks protected similarly from snow & rain, especially the ones you might draw on this season.

You've no doubt heard "don't cover the stacks." IMHO that's pure nonsense- a folded or twice-folded tarp on the top will divert most of the water to the ground. With a summer/fall like we just had, otherwise I'd have had a fungus-farm. Much of that covered wood is now around 15% MC, and dries much more near the stove once buzzed in half to fit my stove.

I've found that I can stack wood with the butts a couple of inches from the stove. Just not for real long. They dry like crazy. Then rotate, end -> end and move further away. Makes a HUGE difference in how they burn.
Click to expand...

Don't want to rehash this whole dispute again, but I'll just say I've never covered my stacks at any point and have never had anything even hinting at a "fungus farm." Never had a single spot of mold or anything else. It may depend on the climate and the area that's available to stack the wood.
 
fire_man said:
CTYank said:
You've no doubt heard "don't cover the stacks." IMHO that's pure nonsense- a folded or twice-folded tarp on the top will divert most of the water to the ground. With a summer/fall like we just had, otherwise I'd have had a fungus-farm. Much of that covered wood is now around 15% MC, and dries much more near the stove once buzzed in half to fit my stove.
Click to expand...

Absolutely this is true! Especially don't leave those stacks uncovered if you are 3 years ahead and expect your wood to last.

Simple equation:

WOOD + H2O + Time = ROT
Click to expand...
Ive got 3 year old Oak that has never been covered and it aint rotten, the way it rots is if the wood does not dry out after it is rained on. Single rows and the wood dries out quickly after a rain.
 
oldspark said:
Ive got 3 year old Oak that has never been covered and it aint rotten, the way it rots is if the wood does not dry out after it is rained on. Single rows and the wood dries out quickly after a rain.
Click to expand...

You'n me, Oldspark.
 
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