Just bought Harman exception insert

You shouldn't have any problem getting the heat to circulate to both floors. The bottom floor will certain be cozy, and I imagine that there is a central staircase where heat can flow up into the second floor. Rest assured it will and cutting holes in the floor or anything else nutty like that will more than likely not be necessary.

The Harman afterburner technology (and Vermont Castings everburn) is quite advanced and able to deliver really sweet performance for a non-cat stove. I think you will be very happy with the unit and I look foward to hearing your review and seeing pictures of the installation.


If you have any questions on installation, operation, etc I hope we can help you answer them

If possible a ceiling fan in the stairwell will work wonders. I wouldn't bother until you burn the stove without it though to see if it's even necessary. My stariwell acts like a chimney. You can stand at the bottom of the stairs and feel the cold air at your feet and the warm air on the back of your neck.

bige34 said:

Thanks for the encouragement guys, I'll post pictures when it is installed. As for the install, I noticed they are only putting in five feet of stainless steel tubing into my chimney which is about 30 feet high. Is this OK, or should it be completely lined? I have an excellent draft with this chimney and never had a problem burning wood the old fashioned way.

Eric

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What is the inside diameter of you chimney flue. Does the chimney have a clay tile liner that is in good shape? Is it an outside wall chimney? If it doesn't have a clay liner it may be required to fully reline. Check with local inspector. For best results it's best to have as close to the stove exhaust collar size as possible.

What is the inside diameter of you chimney flue. Does the chimney have a clay tile liner that is in good shape? Is it an outside wall chimney? If it doesn't have a clay liner it may be required to fully reline. Check with local inspector. For best results it's best to have as close to the stove exhaust collar size as possible.

bige34 said:

The chimney is on an outside wall and only has a clay liner from near the top (the last 12 feet of the chimney was rebuilt four years ago. I'm not sure what the inside diameter is.

ERic

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I would call a local inspector and see if this is a legal install without a full liner. Also ask your dealer about this. I think you will need a full liner to pass inspection.

that chimney needs to be relined all the way, i wont be the first to tell you that. If the salesman is the one installing it he wont be able to keep his word. Your stove will be a PITA to start up, and a bigger PITA to clean. You wont get the near the efficiency. Also, if your chimney is not in tip top shape i have a hard time beliving a good installer would even suggest not lining it. Something sounds fishy.

I agree that something sounds fishey.

Is this a hearth dealer you bought from? A sweep? If either was a professional in his/her trade they would not suggest anything but a full liner with insulation on the chimney stack you described. I think you need to ask the installers more questions.

What is the benefit of a full liner that matches the outlet size of this stove?
What is the benefit of an insulated liner system when used with an outdoor chimney?
Will the system be easy to maintain if you don't line it all the way to the top?
How much will a chimney sweep charge me to clean the system if we don't go all the way up?
etc., etc.

Sean

You would expect to pay between 800 -1200 dollars for material for a chimney that big.

Ask you dealerto tell you the NFPA cross-sectional code. If only lined the last 12', no wood stove / insert can be installed in any un lined chimney? What about a block off damper plate. This dealer needs to get re-educated in current codes. His lack of knowledge is doing you and his customers a huge dis-service. I can tell you you stove installation is non code compliant and will opperate like crap. It will never draft correctly and never run effeciently. Glad you had the wisdom to question the direct connect issue. It has to be installed in an NFPA compliant chimney without good condition liners properly sized it cannot be installed. That info is in your owner's installation manual. BTW a good stove choice

elkimmeg said:

Ask you dealerto tell you the NFPA cross-sectional code. If only lined the last 12', no wood stove / insert can be installed in any un lined chimney? What about a block off damper plate. This dealer needs to get re-educated in current codes. His lack of knowledge is doing you and his customers a huge dis-service. I can tell you you stove installation is non code compliant and will opperate like crap. It will never draft correctly and never run effeciently. Glad you had the wisdom to question the direct connect issue. It has to be installed in an NFPA compliant chimney without good condition liners properly sized it cannot be installed. That info is in your owner's installation manual. BTW a good stove choice

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Elk.....kinda off-topic, as I know the insert is being installed in a negative pressure scenario, but whats the NFPA cross sectional code say in a POSITIVE pressure scenario? We run into that question alot with positive pressure pellet stoves. Obviously, a liner is best in almost every situation, but is it ALLOWABLE to NOT use a liner with a positive pressure stove? I believe the Mass Building code only really covers natural draft appliances.

very true, there are no cross sectional requirments for pellet stoves that im aware of, and believe it our not, in out heavy regulated area, pellet stoves dont reqiure permits in boulder, but a tuff shed does... go figure.

Harry good question: Even with positive pressure and a 12/12 clay flue running 25 ft up. Do you really think it is going to heat that area with a 3" vent pipe? Me, I would be opening the installation manual and reading the venting requirements. Before I could answer your questions, I would have to know the limitations of positive pressures developed. Positive pressure developed in a 4" pipe for how much a verticle rise? There is no simple answer. and positive venting is not addressed but covered in a general solid fuel appliance category and that they be, "installed in accordance with the terms of the listing."

in the pellet manuals it shows both types of installs, stub in and full line, you dont need any draft, and the pellet manufactures state the larger the flue the less backpressure the combustion blower will have. So they promote large dumps, they even have a 3" to 6" top vent adapeter, they claim two reasons "to improve draft and make the stove look like a more natural installation" this is true for quadrafire...

MountainStoveGuy said:

very true, there are no cross sectional requirments for pellet stoves that im aware of, and believe it our not, in out heavy regulated area, pellet stoves dont reqiure permits in boulder, but a tuff shed does... go figure.

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In my old town, Fireplace Inserts did not require a permit - the inspector told us it was like a window air conditioner - in other words, installed into an existing chimney.

He even showed me the book for the state of NJ, which started with the words "A building permit is required when structural alterations are being done to a building" or something like that. It may have changed since but this was his instructions...at least for wood inserts. Gas, of course, required a permit and inspection/leak pressure tests.

I'm sure some of this is open to interpretation....for instance:
1. Permit required for glass doors?
2. Permit required for blower (heating) grate?
3. Permit required for slip-in insert (Ultragrate, eco-fire, etc.)?
4. Permit required for Pellet Stove into existing fireplace?

and on and on. Some inspectors and towns will tell you that you need a permit to hang a picture - others let you put in a swimming pool in-ground without one!

Anyway. our local official took the position that only new chimneys needed permits, and that even a liner was a "repair" job, which allowed it to be done (at the time) with no permit.

Back to the situation at hand.

The Harman exception appears to be a wood insert. Sounds like your chimney is unlined except the top, which was rebuilt. This suggests that chimney is perhaps old and in poor repair. As Elk says, relining is a MUST in the case of a chimney that is not already lined fully with terra cotta. You may have nothing but some ancient decaying brick between your flue (which can hit 100 degrees plus) and some very dry framing wood.

Got it right things have changed. Every manual list code compliance and tested to IBC or NFPA

Eric, glad we could help. Good luck with the install.

we have this joker installer in town that stubs them in he tells folks, " dont waste your money on that! i can do it for a third of the price!" and whats scarier, is that another stove shop uses him exclusivly. I cant tell you how many folks come in pissed because there $2000 insert doesnt work, and guess what, he wont return phone calls. He has been in court more days then OJ. But still continues to install that way. Buyer beware.

It makes you wish you could personally handle every installation just to be certain that everyone does everything correctly.