Thinking about a pellet insert

F6hawk · Jan 20, 2012

I currently have a Country brand wood insert in a fireplace, and want to slap a pellet insert in its place. Here in Alaska, the brands available are Enviro and Harman/Quadrafire.

Dealer 1 carries, installs, and warrants the Enviro stoves.

Dealer 2 carries & warrants the Quadras/Harmans. (So I would have to DIY on the install, not a huge issue).

So I guess what I am looking for here is advice/opinions on the Enviro M55 insert, the Harman Accentra insert, and the Quadrafire Mt. Vernon. One of these will be going into a 3,000 sq ft. house primarily heated by an oil boiler and baseboard heating. Depending on my plans with the house, I may add a small pellet stove in the basement to augment the insert, TBD in the future).

Thanks in advance for your advice!

John97 · Jan 20, 2012

I went with the Mt. Vernon over the Accentra because I have 2800 sq ft split-level.

It's been said here that the sq ft ratings are meaningless. It's all about BTU's and ability to distribute the heat.

Looking back, I could have installed mine myself. If I had to do it over, I probably would to save the money.

I am also looking at adding a free-standing pellet stove (or a furnace) downstairs next season to make sure I can do 100% pellet heat. I've had to run my heat pump at times since getting the insert. Granted, I am still experimenting and trying different things to move the heat around.

Trickyrick · Jan 20, 2012

F6hawk said:
I currently have a Country brand wood insert in a fireplace, and want to slap a pellet insert in its place. Here in Alaska, the brands available are Enviro and Harman/Quadrafire.

Dealer 1 carries, installs, and warrants the Enviro stoves.

Dealer 2 carries & warrants the Quadras/Harmans. (So I would have to DIY on the install, not a huge issue).

So I guess what I am looking for here is advice/opinions on the Enviro M55 insert, the Harman Accentra insert, and the Quadrafire Mt. Vernon. One of these will be going into a 3,000 sq ft. house primarily heated by an oil boiler and baseboard heating. Depending on my plans with the house, I may add a small pellet stove in the basement to augment the insert, TBD in the future).

Thanks in advance for your advice!

Based on where you live I wouldn't do the pellet stove. How many places carry the pellets and how much are they. If I remember correctly everythign comes in via boat there right? Also I serously doubt any insert is hoing to heat a 3000 SQ foot home up there. I would be going with a really good wood stove. You have plenty of cord wood there. Do not get me wrong I love my accentra and as long as it is above -10 I can heat my 1880 sq foot home with it but I'm in NY. We still have 8 hours of sun.

F6hawk · Jan 20, 2012

Thanks for the reply John. Similar setup here, with a basement plus 2-story house. When you did your insert, did you use the existing chimney, or install a vent pipe? What about an OAK? Since our houses are farily well sealed up here in cold AK, I think an OAK would be pretty vital. Just wondering if I can use the existing chimney flue (think it is metal pipe all the way up, but have to get on the roof to make sure), and just punch thru the outside wall for the OAK?

F6hawk · Jan 20, 2012

Trickyrick said:
Based on where you live I wouldn't do the pellet stove. How many places carry the pellets and how much are they. If I remember correctly everythign comes in via boat there right? Also I serously doubt any insert is hoing to heat a 3000 SQ foot home up there. I would be going with a really good wood stove. You have plenty of cord wood there. Do not get me wrong I love my accentra and as long as it is above -10 I can heat my 1880 sq foot home with it but I'm in NY. We still have 8 hours of sun.

Well, I have a wood insert already. Why do I want pellets?

1) Ease of use (though they are more expensive up here, over $5 a bag at HD)
2) I have cut wood this past year, but the saw is killing my elbow for days afterwards (old age is kinda like gravity... it SUCKS!)
3) When I move and rent the house, insurance for pellets is lower than for a wood stove

Currently I pay $900-1100 a month for heating oil with the thermostats kept around 63-65Â°. If I can cut this even by half, or bring up the inside temps, I will consider it a successful venture.

John97 · Jan 20, 2012

F6hawk said:
Thanks for the reply John. Similar setup here, with a basement plus 2-story house. When you did your insert, did you use the existing chimney, or install a vent pipe? What about an OAK? Since our houses are farily well sealed up here in cold AK, I think an OAK would be pretty vital. Just wondering if I can use the existing chimney flue (think it is metal pipe all the way up, but have to get on the roof to make sure), and just punch thru the outside wall for the OAK?

My insert is installed in an existing masonry fireplace. I have an OAK that is out through the back wall of the fireplace.

I think you will definitely be able to reduce your oil expenditures and will be warmer by burning pellets. You should be able to get them cheaper by the ton than by the bag at Home Depot or Lowes.

F6hawk · Jan 20, 2012

John97 said:
F6hawk said:

Thanks for the reply John. Similar setup here, with a basement plus 2-story house. When you did your insert, did you use the existing chimney, or install a vent pipe? What about an OAK? Since our houses are farily well sealed up here in cold AK, I think an OAK would be pretty vital. Just wondering if I can use the existing chimney flue (think it is metal pipe all the way up, but have to get on the roof to make sure), and just punch thru the outside wall for the OAK?

Click to expand...

My insert is installed in an existing masonry fireplace. I have an OAK that is out through the back wall of the fireplace.

I think you will definitely be able to reduce your oil expenditures and will be warmer by burning pellets. You should be able to get them cheaper by the ton than by the bag at Home Depot or Lowes.

Unfortunately, HD/Lowes is the cheapest locally. Which is sad, considering there is a pellet company that just started up less than 2 years ago here. HD sells Maine Woods "premium" pellets for $249/ton ($4.99 per bag). The local producer is $295/ton.

John97 · Jan 20, 2012

Understood. One thing I have learned is that pellets are cheaper during the "off-season" and I plan on stocking up at that point. It may be something for you to consider. Secondly, one of the joys shared by many here is the hunt for pellets...

Fish On · Jan 20, 2012

Maine woods way out there? there logistics have to be awesome. and to think to the south of you are what we here out east burn more then anything

DexterDay · Jan 20, 2012

$250 a ton is not bad. To be that far away and that cheap, is fantastic.

I dont think Trickyrick thought about how well insulated and sealed most homes in Alaska are. Whatever you get, make sure it has an OAK on it. Only increases the overall efficiency of the unit and makes it easier to heat your home.

Honestly, I would go with any of those units. They are all well made and have descent BTU ratings.

But..... With a home that size and Oil Bills that expensive. You would be a good candidate for a Pellet furnace. Do you have Forced Hot air through duct work? Or is is radiant hot water?

That way you can still keep the woodstove for more BTU's when you want them. Just some added punch!!

Anyways... Thats my 2 cents.

F6hawk · Jan 20, 2012

Dexter... I have an oil boiler and baseboard heat now. Thought about a Harman pellet boiler, it wouldn't be an issue for me. But when I rent the house, I am not sure tenants would want (or could handle) the added work. Wood here is going for $250 a cord, delivered log lengths. Then there is the drying time. Then the cutting (as I said earlier, the chain saw it tearing up my elbow for some reason). And the mess of hauling the wood inside, particularly in -45Â° temps. I guess what I need to do to really compare apples to other fruits is to figure out what my current wood insert (Country Connection, 1993 model) is rated at. Can anyone direct me to a site for Country wood inserts?

Very few forced air systems in AK, for some reason, not sure why. When I was looking to buy a house, I think I saw exactly ONE in about 30 homes. And IIRC, it was in a modular home that the agent had to take some pics of (I wasn't looking to buy it).

Pellets may be challenging to get up here, more so than in the lower 48, but that will be a problem for the renters.

I know I will be buying mine all summer long if I end up installing a pellet insert this year.

1Dtml · Jan 20, 2012

F6hawk said:
I currently have a Country brand wood insert in a fireplace, and want to slap a pellet insert in its place. Here in Alaska, the brands available are Enviro and Harman/Quadrafire.

Dealer 1 carries, installs, and warrants the Enviro stoves.

Dealer 2 carries & warrants the Quadras/Harmans. (So I would have to DIY on the install, not a huge issue).

So I guess what I am looking for here is advice/opinions on the Enviro M55 insert, the Harman Accentra insert, and the Quadrafire Mt. Vernon. One of these will be going into a 3,000 sq ft. house primarily heated by an oil boiler and baseboard heating. Depending on my plans with the house, I may add a small pellet stove in the basement to augment the insert, TBD in the future).

Thanks in advance for your advice!

I would give the Enviro M55 insert a hard look.
1).Given the size of your home get all the BTU you can, for better too big than not enough.
2). It is a multifuel burner, so you could burn other listed fuels in a pinch.
3). Being a multifuel it has an agitator, and many adjustments that allows it to burn any quality of pellet (not too fussy).
4). Compared to the Accentra the M55 is a quiet unit.
5). Profession install with code inspector approval may be required for your homeowners insurance (check with your insurance carrier).
6) T-stat install is quite simple, and the unit comes with a basic t-stat to get you started.

Definitely have an outside air kit (OAK) installed as others have recommended.

If you can find dealers with the competing stoves hooked up see and hear for yourself, for a better comparison.

See my signature for the Regency stove that I have is a re-badged Enviro M55 insert, so maybe you have a Regency dealer near you as well.

1D

Trickyrick · Jan 20, 2012

F6hawk said:
Trickyrick said:

Based on where you live I wouldn't do the pellet stove. How many places carry the pellets and how much are they. If I remember correctly everythign comes in via boat there right? Also I serously doubt any insert is hoing to heat a 3000 SQ foot home up there. I would be going with a really good wood stove. You have plenty of cord wood there. Do not get me wrong I love my accentra and as long as it is above -10 I can heat my 1880 sq foot home with it but I'm in NY. We still have 8 hours of sun.

Click to expand...

Well, I have a wood insert already. Why do I want pellets?

1) Ease of use (though they are more expensive up here, over $5 a bag at HD)
2) I have cut wood this past year, but the saw is killing my elbow for days afterwards (old age is kinda like gravity... it SUCKS!)
3) When I move and rent the house, insurance for pellets is lower than for a wood stove

Currently I pay $900-1100 a month for heating oil with the thermostats kept around 63-65Â°. If I can cut this even by half, or bring up the inside temps, I will consider it a successful venture.

I certainly understand your interest in pellets.

On the move and renting the house. I have done that before and would NEVER allow a renter to run a pellet stove or wood stove for that matter. On the pellet stove especially any insert, you WILL be doing weekly cleanings (expect) 45 mintutes per week and perhaps another hour a month and then a couple hours a year. You will either need to write into the rental contract that this is done or you should put a LOCK OUT/TAG OUT lock on the cord. Most renters do not care as much about your things and there is a tendency to expect the owner to do all maintanence.

On the pellet supply thing. $250-300 is great I have heard horror stories of $7.00 per bag up there, but you are going to be stuck with what they get in and you should find a place where you get a guarantee pre-order. It will do you no good if you have a pellet insert and no pellets to burn. My biggest worry there would be continuity of supply. remember they are easier to use but there isn't anything that can just drop in and replace them. Even the multi fule option you still need the corn and I do not know those prices and availability up there.

900 - 1100 per month in oil. can you tell me the cost of oil per gallon? If we can figure out how many BTUs you are using (# of gallons) then we can make a fair estimate of your needs and what the stove will actually do for you.

Please understand I wouldn't change my choice in going to pellets or the unit I have, I just want to make sure that you know everything that will affect your choice.

briansol · Jan 20, 2012

As an insert owner, if I had to do it again, I wouldn't have gotten an insert. I miss having the option to use a fireplace as a fireplace, especially in power failure times.

There's another member here from AK who constantly posts about pellets being $8 a bag up there... I'd make sure your pricing research is accurate before moving to a pellet fuel choice.

F6hawk · Jan 21, 2012

Someone asked for my oil usage (in gallons), here we go:

10/1/2010 - full tank (500)
11/27/2010 - 141.3
1/7/2011 - 303.9
2/11/2011 - 206.3
3/28/2011 - 239.3
10/24/2011 - 348.0
12/9/2011 - 242.9

I'm prolly due for another top-off this coming week, more to follow on that.

Now, what can we tell from these numbers?

Trickyrick · Jan 21, 2012

F6hawk said:
Someone asked for my oil usage (in gallons), here we go:

10/1/2010 - full tank (500)
11/27/2010 - 141.3
1/7/2011 - 303.9
2/11/2011 - 206.3
3/28/2011 - 239.3
10/24/2011 - 348.0
12/9/2011 - 242.9

I'm prolly due for another top-off this coming week, more to follow on that.

Now, what can we tell from these numbers?

Well from Jan 2011 to Feb 2011 what should be the coldest time and most energy consumed you used 206.3 gallons in 35 days or an average of 5.89 gallons a day. At 140,000 BTUs per gallons of Dino juice that is 825,000 BTUs per day at say 88% efficient for an oil heater you use an average of 30,257 BTUs per hour. That is an average at night you are using more and during the day less. This is also using forced hot water which more evenly distributed the heat than any pellet stove can.

A pellet stove is at absolute best in perfectly clean condition 75% efficient so you need a stove that is rated at least 40,000 BTUs and if it is rated that high you need to burn it all the time balls out at full speed 5 pounds per hour and hope that you can move the heat around the house. That is 5 pounds *24 hours or 105 bags on the same time period. a little over 2 tons and at 250 a ton you are looking at $500 for pellets. What is the going price for #2 fuel?

Also with 3,000 square feet you will need more than 40000 btu stove as you will have the room with the stove at 80 degrees and the far rooms will be chilly.

Up to you how you want to proceed but those are your numbers and if you are really up for it I recommend two stoves and at least 6 tons per year based on your needs.

F6hawk · Jan 21, 2012

As far as price per gallon goes, between $3.60~3.71 this winter. That 206.3 gallons this year cost me $765.

Based on replies here, and the potential renter problems you mentioned, I am thinking I will keep the wood insert as is, add a small pellet stove in the basement (or garage, as this seems to use a lot of heat all winter) to supplement/reduce oil costs, and take it with me when I leave. That way I can enjoy reduced oil bills while I live here, but not have to worry about someone jacking up the stove in my absence.

Oh, and your estimate of "colder at night, warmer during the day" doesn't apply as much here... -40Â° at night and -32Â° during the day doesn't give much of a break!

lefty · Jan 22, 2012

1Dtml said:
F6hawk said:

I currently have a Country brand wood insert in a fireplace, and want to slap a pellet insert in its place. Here in Alaska, the brands available are Enviro and Harman/Quadrafire.

Dealer 1 carries, installs, and warrants the Enviro stoves.

Dealer 2 carries & warrants the Quadras/Harmans. (So I would have to DIY on the install, not a huge issue).

So I guess what I am looking for here is advice/opinions on the Enviro M55 insert, the Harman Accentra insert, and the Quadrafire Mt. Vernon. One of these will be going into a 3,000 sq ft. house primarily heated by an oil boiler and baseboard heating. Depending on my plans with the house, I may add a small pellet stove in the basement to augment the insert, TBD in the future).

Thanks in advance for your advice!

Click to expand...

I would give the Enviro M55 insert a hard look.
1).Given the size of your home get all the BTU you can, for better too big than not enough.
2). It is a multifuel burner, so you could burn other listed fuels in a pinch.
3). Being a multifuel it has an agitator, and many adjustments that allows it to burn any quality of pellet (not too fussy).
4). Compared to the Accentra the M55 is a quiet unit.
5). Profession install with code inspector approval may be required for your homeowners insurance (check with your insurance carrier).
6) T-stat install is quite simple, and the unit comes with a basic t-stat to get you started.

Definitely have an outside air kit (OAK) installed as others have recommended.

If you can find dealers with the competing stoves hooked up see and hear for yourself, for a better comparison.

See my signature for the Regency stove that I have is a re-badged Enviro M55 insert, so maybe you have a Regency dealer near you as well.
I have a environ ef.g. 111 bayi
insert in my bungalow it works fine hit -16c the other nite
1D

F6hawk · Jan 22, 2012

Were you trying to say something, pei, or just quoting?

roadrunnermoore · Jan 22, 2012

1Dtml said:
F6hawk said:

I currently have a Country brand wood insert in a fireplace, and want to slap a pellet insert in its place. Here in Alaska, the brands available are Enviro and Harman/Quadrafire.

Dealer 1 carries, installs, and warrants the Enviro stoves.

Dealer 2 carries & warrants the Quadras/Harmans. (So I would have to DIY on the install, not a huge issue).

So I guess what I am looking for here is advice/opinions on the Enviro M55 insert, the Harman Accentra insert, and the Quadrafire Mt. Vernon. One of these will be going into a 3,000 sq ft. house primarily heated by an oil boiler and baseboard heating. Depending on my plans with the house, I may add a small pellet stove in the basement to augment the insert, TBD in the future).

Thanks in advance for your advice!

Click to expand...

I would give the Enviro M55 insert a hard look.
1).Given the size of your home get all the BTU you can, for better too big than not enough.
2). It is a multifuel burner, so you could burn other listed fuels in a pinch.
3). Being a multifuel it has an agitator, and many adjustments that allows it to burn any quality of pellet (not too fussy).
4). Compared to the Accentra the M55 is a quiet unit.
5). Profession install with code inspector approval may be required for your homeowners insurance (check with your insurance carrier).
6) T-stat install is quite simple, and the unit comes with a basic t-stat to get you started.

Definitely have an outside air kit (OAK) installed as others have recommended.

If you can find dealers with the competing stoves hooked up see and hear for yourself, for a better comparison.

See my signature for the Regency stove that I have is a re-badged Enviro M55 insert, so maybe you have a Regency dealer near you as well.

1D

Love my M55 Cast insert

CygnusX1 · Jan 22, 2012

briansol said:
As an insert owner, if I had to do it again, I wouldn't have gotten an insert. I miss having the option to use a fireplace as a fireplace, especially in power failure times.

There's another member here from AK who constantly posts about pellets being $8 a bag up there... I'd make sure your pricing research is accurate before moving to a pellet fuel choice.

I have an insert as well and while I love it, I should have bought a free standing unit. Yes, it frees up floor space, but inserts have a smaller hopper capacity and kind of a PIA to do a full clean out on. Even though my stove is on rails, pulling that thing out of the fireplace can be a beast. It's much easier to clean a free standing unit.

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