WoodGun, a few issues; moisture, particulates and smell

nomosno:
I had the puffing problem but found if I partially closed the damper it seemed to go away, I now have fresh air intake ducted to the boiler. I used 4" and it expands to 5" at the boiler, this is restricting the air somewhat similar to having the damper partially closed. I now leave the damper wide open. Also if it ever does puff the smoke will stay in the intake pipe or blow outside.

timberbuilt:
As for the fire going out, I have the 4 hour cycle timer so this is never a problem now matter what size wood I put in. If you do not have one you should look into adding one, it turn the fan on for a few minutes every so many hours (can be adjusted to whatever you want) to keep the fire from ever going out.

I still have not replaced my gasket although it shows deterioration and the problem has not goten any worse, I am going to leave it until if/when it leaks


My problem is smoke leaking out of the joints of the smoke pipe, I tried high temp silicone and it worked fine for a month but sections have burnt off and are leaking again. I am going to try stove cement wrapped with fiberglass exhaust wrap on all joints.

Mark, I also sealed all my joints from the top of the cyclone to the last pipe joint before it enters the chimney. Made a big difference and have not had a problem with them leaking. I have also insulated all of the piping hoping to keep my chimney temps a little higher. I guess I'm lucky to not have the puffing problem esp. since my boiler is in our basement. We have learned when to re-load which helps a lot with any smoke issues and this is fairly easy to do when it's cold...a bit more of a challenge when it's above 40 degrees outside. +1 on the cycle timer....BIG help when heat isn't called for over an extended period of time.
It seems when Carl left AHS their support has been marginal at best.

timberbuilt said:

mark123 said:

nomosno:

As for the fire going out, I have the 4 hour cycle timer so this is never a problem now matter what size wood I put in. If you do not have one you should look into adding one, it turn the fan on for a few minutes every so many hours (can be adjusted to whatever you want) to keep the fire from ever going out.

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Can you send me a link that shows the type of timer you use. It's probably a hardware store buy but then again???
Thanks

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This was an option from AHS, it is installed on my boiler. That is another issue with AHS, when I ordered it I had to press them about options that were available, none were mentioned or offered. I got the Stainless, cycle timer, cold temp shut down (shuts the fan off if fire goes out) and the automatic wood oil switch over. Here is a link to the timer that came on mine

http://www.intermatic.com/products/timers/mechanical time switches/repeat cycle.aspx

Cold temp shut down....now that's a new one to me!

Mark:
Thanks. I think I can find something like that. I assume the cold temp shut down is an aquastat or similar? It sure would have been nice to have at least been given the option when I ordered the boiler.
You must have the oil burner, how does that work for you?

timberbuilt said:

Mark:
Thanks. I think I can find something like that. I assume the cold temp shut down is an aquastat or similar? It sure would have been nice to have at least been given the option when I ordered the boiler.
You must have the oil burner, how does that work for you?

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Pybyr walks through using the alarm function of a PID temperature controller to sense boiler neck temperature with a thermocouple.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/67470/#771505

He mentions an Auber control, there may be slightly better deals online (e.g., thermocouple included) on what appears to be the same units. Search ebay for 'PID temperature controller', 'JLD-7100', 'JLD7100', 'TET-7100', TET7100, and so forth.

A variation on the technique he describes is to use a countdown timer in parallel with the controller to activate the system until the flue comes up to temp.

Works great, except flue temperature drops pretty fast when power goes out so when power comes back on you may be out of luck. If I can convince myself it's safe I'm thinking I'll replace my mechanical startup timer with a time delay relay that stays on while anytime power comes on.

--ewd

I would call AHS and see if these options can easily be added to your boiler. There was one tech there that I talked to that was very helpful and knew his stuff, can't remember his name but I think there are only 2 of them anyway. I ordered the oil just for back up if I go away, actually I never used it yet. There is an other option that I got as well, it is a refractoy plug that closes the oil burner tube at the front lower door, it is recomended if the oil burner will not be used frequently as it will get dirty from the wood burning process. They said withought the plug I should fire up the oil for a few minutes every few days. Overall I am very happy with the woodgun and cannot see why anyone would buy anything else and get involved with storage etc... I fill it once or sometimes twice a day and never think about it. I built an over the door vent that blows outside but in hindsight I should have got that from AHS as well.

mark123 said:

I would call AHS and see if these options can easily be added to your boiler. There was one tech there that I talked to that was very helpful and knew his stuff, can't remember his name but I think there are only 2 of them anyway. I ordered the oil just for back up if I go away, actually I never used it yet. There is an other option that I got as well, it is a refractoy plug that closes the oil burner tube at the front lower door, it is recomended if the oil burner will not be used frequently as it will get dirty from the wood burning process. They said withought the plug I should fire up the oil for a few minutes every few days. Overall I am very happy with the woodgun and cannot see why anyone would buy anything else and get involved with storage etc... I fill it once or sometimes twice a day and never think about it. I built an over the door vent that blows outside but in hindsight I should have got that from AHS as well.

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Can you post a photo of this? This again is something I was not aware of. Currently I run the oil burner for a minute or so when I do the weekly cleaning but I would rather not have the effects of wood burning on the oil side at all.
Regarding storage...about the only time I wish we had it is in the shoulder season...makes life a lot simpler when temps are above 40 or so.

Here are some pictures of the oil tube plug.

Also the model number of the cycle timer is C8845 made by Intermatic

Mark,
can you explain how your timer functions? I imagine the 4hr timer is activated once the highlimit is reached/blower shut down? I bought a 24hr timer at the hardware store but it will burn through the high limit setting. I ended up boiling my boiler last night. I wired it like AHS showed in wiring diagram, but it seems to be parrallel with the high limit but should be in a series somehow?

The cycle timer comes with several brass insert clips. These are inserted into the rim of the dial and when the dial reaches their insert point the timer activates the boiler for 4 min.(I think) per insert. So, if you have two of these in adjacent slots on the dial the boiler will run for 8 minutes(if I am correct on the 4 minute interval). Once the dial has rotated past the last insert at that dial point the boiler will shut down. The timer you bought sounds like a simple on/off timer and cannot turn on/off several times in a 4 hour period like the cycle timer.

The nice thing about this timer is you can tailor the length of the burn time to meet the conditions. Early in the heating season I may use 2 clips per cycle at about 45 minutes apart but as it gets colder I'll remove many clips so it runs a shorter cycle and perhaps not as often....remember, all you are trying to do is keep a bed of coals going so when there is an actual "call" for heat there is enough coals to start again. Once temps get to upper 30's as a high there is no need for the timer.

On mine the brass clips are 2 min. each, I currently have the timer set so it turns on 12 minutes every hour and the fire has never gone out on me. I originally had some trouble with this and Jeff at AHS told me to set the high limit higher because it overrides the timer. If the boiler is at the high limit the timer will not turn the fan on. Jeff is great to talk to, he really knows his stuff, I recomend talking to him. I just fixed up my creosote leaking problem. He told me to loosen the bolts that hold the airbox tube into the boiler, remove it and re-silicone it. It was very hard to remove because of all the cresote but I heated the inside of the tube with a propane torch and it softened the creosote enough to allow me to pull it right out. I then burnt most of it off with the torch and wired brushed the rest with a grinder inside and out. I then high temp. siliconed in about 1" and shoved it back together. From the factory there is only silicone on the outer edge. I don't know why this is not welded, if it leaks again I will weld it there permanently.

Mark, are you talking about creosote inside the box or in the inlet tube inside the boiler? I get a very small amount inside the box but a fair amount inside the tube inlet part of the boiler.
Thanks for the time correction...I didn't think it was as long as 4 minutes per clip but just wasn't sure. I'm surprised with your temps that you need to use the timer in the winter...you must be very well insulated?!

The creosote from the firebox drips onto the air tube inside the firebox and then rolls around to the underside of it and makes its way outside and drips from the bottom where the air tube enters the boiler. If you look on the back where the air box tube enters the boiler you will notice orange silicone, mine was dripping from the bottom, not very much a couple of drops every few days but it makes a mess and stinks. I now have another problem that I thought I solved. I had puffing issues so I reduced the intake to 4" and it seemed to help but Jeff told me that I should have at least 6" for the run I have, approx. 20' with 7 elbows so I changed it all and now the puffing is worse than ever, the whole boiler starts to actually move a tiny bit. He told me to put much less wood in and that seems to help but that is defeating the purpose of the large firebox and long burn times. 2 days ago I filled the firebox with 4-5" rounds and some cardboard and it went crazy. It seems the with the intake attached it is much worse than when it is disconnected at the air box. If I open the door a crack it goes away, sounds like it needs more air but the 4" was better than the 6"???? Today I only put 4 6" rounds in and it is fine and add wood every few hours. Do you guys ever fill it and leave the damper open? My wood is all maple rounds 3"-7" is extremely dry, all cracked open because the boiler room is closed off and stays at 90 F 24 hours / day.

About the only time I notice anything from mine is a slight vibration. This seems to happen when I am burning small splits. The pressure will fluctuate a few pounds and I can feel the vibration when sitting in my living room recliner which is directly above the boiler in our basement. Don't have this problem when feeding larger pieces. Up until recently we had the damper open 100% and burned full loads that lasted from 8 to 10 hours or so depending on conditions. I have started to close the damper about 25% experimenting with burn times...seems to extend them a bit but not much.

Have not had the leaking you describe, just creosote forming at the air intake tube. Usually just push that into the firebox and it burns up.

90 degree boiler room...that's warm! A few more degrees and it could be a sauna! I have reduced the temp in my basement...insulated all the hot water lines and in an effort to keep my stack temps up a bit(chimney is not insulated) I also insulated the cyclone and piping to the chimney. Stack gets to about 400 when burning. I notice that my stack temp is still around 120 or so even well after a burn...but no condensation yet in the pipes or cyclone/ash pan.

timberbuilt said:

Mark,
can you explain how your timer functions? I imagine the 4hr timer is activated once the highlimit is reached/blower shut down? I bought a 24hr timer at the hardware store but it will burn through the high limit setting. I ended up boiling my boiler last night. I wired it like AHS showed in wiring diagram, but it seems to be parallel with the high limit but should be in a series somehow?

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I wired an Intermatic model FF6H into the circuit in place of the WG timer that clears the chamber of smoke. It runs the fan but does not over ride the high temp limit switch. Installing this switch makes the Wood Gun function just like my Garn (which has the same switch). The mechanical timer determines how long the burn will be. I have storage and that helps eliminate a lot of the problems many on this site are experiencing. Set the timer for 2 hours and forget it.

I gave up the idea of trying to run a wood furnace like a LP or oil furnace that cycles on and off. Although they advertize the WG and other furnaces to work this way I just ran into too many problems. I burn smaller loads (roughly filled to the bottom of the door or slightly higher) completely without cycling. There's no puffing at all. The creosote smell is no longer there. Somebody else mentioned the large wood box and running small loads being a waste. Over stuffing the wood box causes puffing and over heating. The Garn is the same way. By the way, the Garn and Wood Gun are both good units and both made in the USA.

Fred61 said:

....

The Woodgun moves more combustion air than any other unit I have seen. I could be wrong but I suspect it needs to move more air to make up for the fact that it has no secondary air inlet....

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My Garn 1500 moves more air than my Wood Gun. Garn uses a 3/4hp motor vs the WG 1/2hp (on the 140 anyway).

Fred61 said:

....My smoke pipe went straight up off the cyclone to a dog leg about seven feet off the floor then went horizontal for about 1.5 feet then straight up through the roof. I needed to clean out the ash from the horizontal section so often I installed a sliding gate valve on the tee to scoop it out into a bucket. Didn't that create some dust

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I welded up a 6" SS schedule 10 pipe for the flue and installed flanged / gasketed clean out doors that are bolted tight with wing nuts. And I use an ash vacuum cleaner. Makes for an air tight flue pipe that's quick and simple to clean out.

Fred61 said:

....I've been doing some thinking about the biggest thorn in my side caused by my Woodgun and that was door gasket erosion....

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I have the same issue most notably where the exhaust exits the refractory and lines up with the door gasket. I'm experimenting with some 18 gauge tin that I installed by tucking it in behind one of the deflector plates that hold the door insulation in place. This prevents the hot gases and ash particles from sand blasting the gaskets. The tin may wear out but takes about 1 minute to replace.

muncybob said:

I don't have the moisture problem with wood but I do with oil. The wood we burned last year was mostly over 20%(this is will not be the case this year!) and I think this caused more creosote and junk in my chimney than should be. I'll be checking my pipes monthly or so and hope not to see much with the drier wood we'll be burning. The only odor we have noticed smells like wood only though. AHS did mention "improved" firebrick now available but I had no idea what was different until your posting.

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I wish Jim at AHS would have mentioned this to me when I called earlier this year. I inquired about the worn center brick. Jim asked if the slots were worn through. I said no and he said they were OK. I have my doubts so I bought some refractory cement ($84 for 50lb.) and will make a new set. The original slots (bought it in spring 2010) were 1/2" wide X 2" long. They advertize them as lasting for 10 cords and charge $140 plus freight for the WG140 replacement set. Mine have roughly 5-6 cord through them and are now shot.