Great thread! I've been researching the Progress and it looks like a great stove. And unlike the BK's I really like the way it looks too. One question though: why does the Progress not have a fully functioning air control valve? Your comments about the vague possibility of a runaway fire is a bit "alarming." I'd like an air valve that can be shut to zero if need be. Why wouldn't they build this stove with the ability to choke it off in an emergency?
Progress Hybrid Installed 12/21 replacing Fireview
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Backwoods Savage
Minister of Fire
3fordasho said:
I too would appreciate a picture of that stove with the short legs and think it will be quite nice. Ours will have the same but we've moved the shipping date back a bit.
fire_man
Minister of Fire
I'm still trying to figure out why the Progress draft cannot be shut to near zero, similar to their other cat stoves. The whole idea of the cat is to be able to snuff down the draft because the cat will take over and burn the smoke. So why are those secondary plates always open a little????
Todd
Minister of Fire
fire_man said:
My guess is the same secondary air that supplies the baffle supplies the cat so it has to be open a bit to pass EPA test. If the fire box is hot enough the baffle lights off and burns up the smoke and gas, if not the cat takes over? I'm thinking most of the time the fire box will be hot enough to kick in the baffle system. I wish there was a way to flip a switch and burn it either way or all together, ala t-stat switch.
fire_man
Minister of Fire
But why does the plate have to have such a wide opening at zero draft setting if smoke gets cleaned up by the cat??? I thought that with the cat, you should be able to require extremely low draft and still burn clean. BK does it, FV does it. I am tempted to call WS and ask what happens if you plug the slots in that secondary plate. I'm not complaining, I get easy 12 hr burns, but I think with a little tweaking this Progress could burn on low as well as the famed BLAZE KING!
The cat needs air or it can't burn the smoke. As far as I can tell, no one burns the BK or FV with the draft completetly closed. I guess the question is how can the other cat stoves get EPA approval with draft controls that close more than you could ever use in real life, but the Progress couldn't?
Todd
Minister of Fire
They won't be able to tell you to block that air off because it probably hasn't been tested and approved that way.Just like when I asked about removing the ash pan for my Keystone. I know I'd be tempted to try it, prolly plug the baffle and run it like a cat stove.
fire_man
Minister of Fire
WarmInIowa
Member
I'm glad to hear of your experience, great post. Thank you for sharing. I am basically in the same situation, same size house with lots of windows facing the north due to a view. I will be doing the same thing, replacing the fireview with the Progress Hybrid. I hope I have the same results. One of my limitations is that I don't have the greatest draft, and my pipe exits the house straight out the back, so I hope that doesn't cause me any issues with the new stove.
HotCoals
Minister of Fire
On the BK you can close the intake(t-stat) all the way down..but below the flapper there is a plate with a hole in it that feeds the stove a minimum amount of air by by-passing the flapper.Waulie said:
BK as far as I can tell BK got that hole the right size for most apps.
When the t-stat is open the fire box gets air from those tubes up the sides..when it's closed the box gets air from the bottom ,from that little hole.
Kinda hard for me to explain.
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Backwoods Savage
Minister of Fire
WarmInIowa said:
I see no problem with exiting out the back. So long as the Fireview worked with this setup the Progress should do the same. btw, ours is the same, horizontal through the wall then up the side of the house. We have no problems with it.
The Progress Hybrid has a nozzle below the window that introduces air all the time.
Woodstock told me to load the stove (assumes I have at least hot embers). immediately engage the catalytic combuster and completely close the damper. They thought I would have a completely dark stove for about half an hour to 45 minutes, then I would have a long slow catalytic burn. Guess what? It works. Should work for anyone with a really good draft who has been having trouble keeping the secondary system from taking over from the cat.
Of course I tried this when it was 5 F out..not the greatest time for a long slow cat burn if one is returning to a home after two weeks absence...
I did ask about the issue of creosote formation in the chimney, fouling the converter because of low temp/moisture, etc. They told me not to worry, those things would not be a problem, try it...and it really works. Good to know for milder weather.
To answer another question...this stove ignites almost before I close the door if there are any coals. Just the same wood I have always used, and the Fireview did not light anywhere nearly as quickly or easily as this stove does.
Just roasted a roast beef from frozen in 2 1/2 hours in a small heavy magnalite roasting pan. This stove if great for cooking.
Woodstock told me to load the stove (assumes I have at least hot embers). immediately engage the catalytic combuster and completely close the damper. They thought I would have a completely dark stove for about half an hour to 45 minutes, then I would have a long slow catalytic burn. Guess what? It works. Should work for anyone with a really good draft who has been having trouble keeping the secondary system from taking over from the cat.
Of course I tried this when it was 5 F out..not the greatest time for a long slow cat burn if one is returning to a home after two weeks absence...
I did ask about the issue of creosote formation in the chimney, fouling the converter because of low temp/moisture, etc. They told me not to worry, those things would not be a problem, try it...and it really works. Good to know for milder weather.
To answer another question...this stove ignites almost before I close the door if there are any coals. Just the same wood I have always used, and the Fireview did not light anywhere nearly as quickly or easily as this stove does.
Just roasted a roast beef from frozen in 2 1/2 hours in a small heavy magnalite roasting pan. This stove if great for cooking.
Todd
Minister of Fire
rideau said:
Did you check your chimney for smoke when you tried this technique? Seems like you could have a smoking stack for quite some time til the cat gets going? I don't think this is a good fix, I'm betting when people do this there will be many stalls and clogged cats. Hopefully Woodstock will fix this problem soon.
fire_man said:
Could it be anything to do with the sizing of the cat? I don't know anything about building or designing a stove, maybe the cat placement/size isn't perfect for the slow/low burn without the secondary baffle helping out a little.
Someone should make some modifications to the secondary air supply to see if the stove can burn smoke free and produce enough heat without the secondary baffle working.
fire_man
Minister of Fire
I like your thinking, Rdust. Sounds like a plan I may try out sometime.
Rideau had some great feedback from WS. I always thought it was bad to stall the cat for too long, but it sounds like that at least with the SS cat, it's ok. I'm gonna have to learn more about that - load it up and instantly put it into smolder mode.
sappy
Member
Steve, I am in the same boat as Yourself. This is my first year with the Fireview. It works well and 70 to 80percent of winter days it completly heats this 80 foot long ranch, Propane is set on far end when it is below zero as has recently been. When time and money is available be could do better with some more insulation and taking out a none caring wall next room up which will move stuff along. It is enticing as I live very close to Woostock plant and have recently watching many coworkers and such move from fireview to progress as well. My room that stove sets in is 22 long by 12 wide so progress I feel would be too much there anyways.Flatbedford said:
Backwoods Savage said:
Where did you hear Woodstock was hard at work on a TStat for the Progress? I spoke to a rep yesterday and he said any TStat was many months away and could not even provide a timeline if in fact it even happens.
My cat stopped working completely. We were in the middle of an ice storm so I wasn't sure if my poor stove performance was because of atmospheric conditions. The one benefit of an ice storm is that it isn't very cold out. I let my stove cool to 120 degree surface temp, then checked my screen...completely blocked. After reading other threads, I was leary about attempts to clean this screen. I got my trusty natural bristle paint brush that I use to brush parts of the stove, including window. I very gently, tentatively brushed the screen, but found that a few bristles caught. Concerned about knocking the screen out of place, I switched to taking the point of the handle and very gently tapping. Nothing happened. So I gently scraped a portion of the screen with the tip. The operative word is GENTLY. I checked that area, and sure enough the screen was clean. SO I gently scraped the entire screen, frequently checking for missed areas with the flashlight. It cleaned easily...about 5 minutes all told. Now I am going to start a fire. However, I'm wondering if the technique of loading the stove and immediately engaging the combuster caused this to happen. It did happen after I started this technique, but that may have been coincidence. I'll experiment and post my results.
I loaded the stove immediately before starting this post. Just put in a 8 inch ironwood log and a large maple split, to a stove that had a surface temp of 120, had had the door open for about ten minutes, and had only a few coals in the bottom. The only "kindling" I used was a 1 inch wide piece of birchnark. The stove started blazing away just after I typed "Now I am going to start a fire." With the screen clean, this stove starts like a breeze.
I continue to be very happy with the stove...just have to learn its ways.
I loaded the stove immediately before starting this post. Just put in a 8 inch ironwood log and a large maple split, to a stove that had a surface temp of 120, had had the door open for about ten minutes, and had only a few coals in the bottom. The only "kindling" I used was a 1 inch wide piece of birchnark. The stove started blazing away just after I typed "Now I am going to start a fire." With the screen clean, this stove starts like a breeze.
I continue to be very happy with the stove...just have to learn its ways.
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
I burn the FV a fair bit with the air all the way closed. That's a "low cat burn" for me. I've just got a 17' stack so the draft isn't exceptionally high either...Waulie said:
I'm still trying to find the sweet spot with the FV, where I can get enough heat to light off the combustor but not get too much of the load out-gassing to where the cat can't burn it all (or in your case, where the secondaries take over.) It ain't easy but I guess that's the price we pay for having the option of the long cat burn. And then there are other variables like the dryness of the fuel, split size, etc. Sheesh, this is turning into rocket science. :lol:rideau said:
3 am three days ago I decided I really needed to more thoroughly clean the iconal screen. It dislodged slightly, and mindful of others' experience with the screen becoming difficult to get out, I lowered it into the fire box, removed it from the stove and thoroughly cleaned it. I found it had some stubborn crusty material on the screen itself as opposed to only having the holes obstructed, so took a fine silk pin and pried this encrustation off, as I suspected leaving it would result in quicker subsequent build up. I cleaned the screen thoroughly with a fine natural bristle rounded sash paint brush, then, at 5;30 Am realized I didn't have a clue how Woodstock suggested replacing the screen. There were no instructions in the PH manual, so I proceeded to clean the ashes out of the stove while I waited for Woodstock to open...house getting chilly. Spoke to Penny at 9AM, who promptly e-mailed me clear, well-illustrated instructions for reinstallation. I asked her incidentally whether she had ever tried to replace one of these screens. She had not. I indicated I felt the iconal screen was an issue with which they needed to deal, and she let me know they realized that.
After a dozen or so attempts at installing the screen as indiciated, and having had no success whatsoever in getting the screen to budge when trying to slide one piece over the other, I installed them subsequently instead of simultaneously. First screen snapped into place, second just sort of sat there. I couldn't get it into place. Called Woodstock, got Jamie, asked is I could burn with the screen as is...told fine as long as it wasn't moving.
Proceeded to build the fire in my stove...16 inch wood because it was already cut for my Fireview, maple and ironwood, box about 60% full, a small strip of birchbark a few match stick thick twigs and a 1/2 inch short twig/branch. Lit the birchbark at 10 AM, the fire was blazing within five minutes. Took under 15 minutes with damper 2/3 closed to achieve temperature to permit engaging the cat. Got a 10 hour burn. Reloaded at 8 PM, stove 80% full of 16 inch lengths, so about 65% full by volume (my biggest fire yet), and fire had ignited from coals before I closed the door. I got a 16 hour burn...my first 16 hour burn. Called Woodstock to report this (they deserve good feedback as well as queries), got Penny, who had gone to the shop and tried installing the screen subsequent to our conversation and had a further suggestion from the engineers there, which I shall try next time I clean and re-install the screen.
Call Woodstock with any questions about the operation of their stoves...they are not only very helpful, but need the feedback to address and improve any nagging details. I have been informed more than once by them that any improvements they make will be retrofitted to all our stoves.
Was told that they are working on a way to prevent the screen from dislodging while cleaning. The screen has the tiny holes to keep more fly ash out of the cat because the SS cat has smaller honeycombs than the ceramic and is more prone to fly ash accumulation. I have a suspicion that my substantial draft probably pulls more fly ash up into the screen/cat. My few, never to be repeated, "whooshes" with newspaper probably didn't help. I did pull the cat while cleaning the screen, although it looked clear. The distal side was completely --every hole- blocked by white ash. I gently tapped the cat on a piece of newspaper placed o the hearth, and all the ash fell out. Brushed both sides with my paint brush, but nothing came out with that. All was clear. Reinstalled the cat, brushed the interior of the upper part of the stove, vacuumed out the tiny pile of white ash. I'll check the cat again one morning in a few weeks, but suspect in my setting it may require cleaning every month or so of 24/7 burning. Not a very burdensome task in this stove, do-able with no trouble when the stovetop is a 120 degrees as long as you brush or tap and don't vacuum the cat.
By the way, after my 16 hour burn, I had light gray ash and about a gallon in volume of coals,stovetop temp of 180 degrees. Loaded stove, fire lit immediately. Have not loaded the stove as full subsequently, because at the moment 12 hour fires are more convenient for me. I have consistently gotten 12 hour fires, am managing to get cat fires, have gray ash and a few coals left at the end of the burn. I've burned a little over a cord of good dry ironwood and maple so far this winter.
I'm very happy with this stove. My house is comfortable. The stove is a handsome addition to the living room.
After a dozen or so attempts at installing the screen as indiciated, and having had no success whatsoever in getting the screen to budge when trying to slide one piece over the other, I installed them subsequently instead of simultaneously. First screen snapped into place, second just sort of sat there. I couldn't get it into place. Called Woodstock, got Jamie, asked is I could burn with the screen as is...told fine as long as it wasn't moving.
Proceeded to build the fire in my stove...16 inch wood because it was already cut for my Fireview, maple and ironwood, box about 60% full, a small strip of birchbark a few match stick thick twigs and a 1/2 inch short twig/branch. Lit the birchbark at 10 AM, the fire was blazing within five minutes. Took under 15 minutes with damper 2/3 closed to achieve temperature to permit engaging the cat. Got a 10 hour burn. Reloaded at 8 PM, stove 80% full of 16 inch lengths, so about 65% full by volume (my biggest fire yet), and fire had ignited from coals before I closed the door. I got a 16 hour burn...my first 16 hour burn. Called Woodstock to report this (they deserve good feedback as well as queries), got Penny, who had gone to the shop and tried installing the screen subsequent to our conversation and had a further suggestion from the engineers there, which I shall try next time I clean and re-install the screen.
Call Woodstock with any questions about the operation of their stoves...they are not only very helpful, but need the feedback to address and improve any nagging details. I have been informed more than once by them that any improvements they make will be retrofitted to all our stoves.
Was told that they are working on a way to prevent the screen from dislodging while cleaning. The screen has the tiny holes to keep more fly ash out of the cat because the SS cat has smaller honeycombs than the ceramic and is more prone to fly ash accumulation. I have a suspicion that my substantial draft probably pulls more fly ash up into the screen/cat. My few, never to be repeated, "whooshes" with newspaper probably didn't help. I did pull the cat while cleaning the screen, although it looked clear. The distal side was completely --every hole- blocked by white ash. I gently tapped the cat on a piece of newspaper placed o the hearth, and all the ash fell out. Brushed both sides with my paint brush, but nothing came out with that. All was clear. Reinstalled the cat, brushed the interior of the upper part of the stove, vacuumed out the tiny pile of white ash. I'll check the cat again one morning in a few weeks, but suspect in my setting it may require cleaning every month or so of 24/7 burning. Not a very burdensome task in this stove, do-able with no trouble when the stovetop is a 120 degrees as long as you brush or tap and don't vacuum the cat.
By the way, after my 16 hour burn, I had light gray ash and about a gallon in volume of coals,stovetop temp of 180 degrees. Loaded stove, fire lit immediately. Have not loaded the stove as full subsequently, because at the moment 12 hour fires are more convenient for me. I have consistently gotten 12 hour fires, am managing to get cat fires, have gray ash and a few coals left at the end of the burn. I've burned a little over a cord of good dry ironwood and maple so far this winter.
I'm very happy with this stove. My house is comfortable. The stove is a handsome addition to the living room.
Your experience with the screen is very similiar to mine. Some have had a simple time replacing it, and others not at all. Since there is nothing to keep the shape of the screen, I think it is subject to distorting. Even a little distortion, and it isn't going to fit "properly". Unfortunately, you can't thoroughly clean it without removing it so you're kind of stuck trying to get it back in. Good to hear WS is aware of screen issue and I have no doubt they'll fix it up.
My biggest concern is having to let the stove go cool to clean it. If it is once or twice a season, that's fine. If it turns out to be once a month, I'll be annoyed.
My biggest concern is having to let the stove go cool to clean it. If it is once or twice a season, that's fine. If it turns out to be once a month, I'll be annoyed.
Todd
Minister of Fire
I bet it is the lower cat burns that clog up that screen faster. The new s/s scoops in the old stoves are probably the same thing as this PH screen and I have noticed mine plug up with soot/ash quicker burning low and slow, sometimes in a couple weeks. I was told this screen was recommended by the cat manufacture. I suppose If they went with a larger sized screen the cat would get more build up which is what I see when swapping out new scoop for old scoop.
Woodstock will probably figure out a more user friendly way to clean this out. Hopefully it won't have to be done so often. Maybe the ceramic cats would be better and you could use a larger screen? I'm still not convinced that the steel cat is better than the ceramic cat, mine is showing signs of degradation and it's only a year old and I also heard from people in the cat industry that the ceramic burns hotter for longer.
Woodstock will probably figure out a more user friendly way to clean this out. Hopefully it won't have to be done so often. Maybe the ceramic cats would be better and you could use a larger screen? I'm still not convinced that the steel cat is better than the ceramic cat, mine is showing signs of degradation and it's only a year old and I also heard from people in the cat industry that the ceramic burns hotter for longer.
That's interesting, Todd. Since cleaning the screen is such a pain and cleaning the cat is so simple, it crossed my mind to just go screen-less and clean the cat like once a week (it takes 2 minutes). I might try it. I think the small mesh size probably acts like a bit of a damper so it could increase draft a bit.
I still don't understand why a low burn would increase build up on the screen? Someone pointed out it might cause creosote to build up there doing a low burn which then gets burned to ash when burned hotter. That sort of makes sense, except I can't see why creosote would accumulate on the screen but not the cat since it is caused from gases condensing.
I still don't understand why a low burn would increase build up on the screen? Someone pointed out it might cause creosote to build up there doing a low burn which then gets burned to ash when burned hotter. That sort of makes sense, except I can't see why creosote would accumulate on the screen but not the cat since it is caused from gases condensing.
Several people have commented about a problem with smoke - mostly smelling smoke. Recently I felt there was too much of a smoke smell, but others here told me they didn't agree. Seemed to me like much more than the Fireview and I didn't like it. But couldn't find a source of smoke. Just realized I have not smelled ANY smoke since cleaning my screen and cat. May be as simple as a smell of smoke tells us to clean everything.
HollowHill
Minister of Fire
rideau said:
You may well be onto something there, rideau. I have been having the smoke smell, then I was getting smoke spillage on loads, having trouble getting the cat to fire off and stay lit, finally dawned on my pea brain that maybe the cat needed cleaning (even tho it had only been about 3 weeks since the last clean, and that one revealed only very minor buildup). The screen didn't look bad, but I thought I should check the cat. I was appalled when I did! It was almost completely encrusted with buildup, like a layer of ice covering the whole cat
No wonder everything seemed sluggish! Performing much better now. Not sure what led to the buildup so quickly. I didn't have an appliance adapter installed to connect the double wall pipe to the stove, so maybe that contributed? Don't know, but I'm sure going to pay attention to the signs more. Thanks to all the Progress owners who are posting about these signs, it's really helping me and shortening my learning curve.- Status
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