"Woodstock Burners" What's Your Opinion On The S/S Scoop? "UPDATE"

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ss="spellchecked_word">Stump_Branch said:
ss="spellchecked_word">jdonna said:
Interesting. I thought about doing the same thing with mine, adding expanded ss to the side on my cast piece. Need some time to do it.

Anyone have their cast scoop glow dull red while the cat is engaged during the first part of their burn? Mine did last night, 0 degrees a 10 mph wind. Granted I was messing around with a 7 inch round loaded in the front, with a small/med. split underneath it and two splits in the back. Stove top cranking 610 degrees.
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Yes.
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Me too in my Fireview but not as much in my Keystone's. I replace the scoop in my Fireview the second year because it started to sag in the middle but I have to admit I probably overfired my stove the first year because my air slide was off track and was getting too much air.
 
Todd said:
Stump_Branch said:
Todd, seeing how you like to tinker with these things, ill explain what the previous owner did to my fireview.

First id half bet hes on hearth.com. but s/s cat, with the old scoop. He commented on what he thought was possible flame impingment on the sides/fornt coners of the scoop near the time youd flip the bypass. After taking apart i can see that as an area of concern. He had cut, drilled holes in 1/4 mild steel, that fit neatly in these areas, with a welded 'foot' to rest on the bottom cast piece and stand it up. Decent craftmanship. Theory was blocked flame, still air flow.

I mention this because the new scoop has sides as well. While i do not have the right to left burn as you describe, i could see a modified air flow around this area being suspect.

Maybe just more expanded metal over drilled plate, but theres a project/test.

Ill post pics when it warms up and i can open it up. Near 20 degrees.
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I've thought about tweaking with that a few times but I've never seen major flame get sucked up into those corners into the cat and never had any signs of flame impingment on the cat. I wonder if the new s/s cat really needs all that protection the new scoop provides? It does restrict air flow imo.
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My thought was rather changing the airflow in these areas, maybe reduce the side to side burn.

I wonder if my air control is on target. I have had difficulty in snuffing out the fire for the low cat burn. She just wants some flame in the box. No matter now as i need the heat.
 
Stump_Branch said:
Todd said:
Stump_Branch said:
Todd, seeing how you like to tinker with these things, ill explain what the previous owner did to my fireview.

First id half bet hes on hearth.com. but s/s cat, with the old scoop. He commented on what he thought was possible flame impingment on the sides/fornt coners of the scoop near the time youd flip the bypass. After taking apart i can see that as an area of concern. He had cut, drilled holes in 1/4 mild steel, that fit neatly in these areas, with a welded 'foot' to rest on the bottom cast piece and stand it up. Decent craftmanship. Theory was blocked flame, still air flow.

I mention this because the new scoop has sides as well. While i do not have the right to left burn as you describe, i could see a modified air flow around this area being suspect.

Maybe just more expanded metal over drilled plate, but theres a project/test.

Ill post pics when it warms up and i can open it up. Near 20 degrees.
Click to expand...

I've thought about tweaking with that a few times but I've never seen major flame get sucked up into those corners into the cat and never had any signs of flame impingment on the cat. I wonder if the new s/s cat really needs all that protection the new scoop provides? It does restrict air flow imo.
Click to expand...

My thought was rather changing the airflow in these areas, maybe reduce the side to side burn.


I wonder if my air control is on target. I have had difficulty in snuffing out the fire for the low cat burn. She just wants some flame in the box. No matter now as i need the heat.
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Hmm, I still got an extra scoop to play with, maybe I'll rig something up.
 
I replaced the gasket around the cat and I think what I may have thought was a SS scoop issue was really and gasket issue. The stove was burning perfectly last night and this morning.
 
Little update. It's been a little over a month of burning with the old scoop and s/s cat and I noticed the stove to be burning a little differently lately, so I took out the cat this morning. There was some fly ash in there but it doesn't seem like a lot, you can still see through all the cells. Maybe it was enough to cover the face to effect the burn? Here's some pictures.

Also noticed the exhaust side of the cat was turning green. I don't know if you can see it or not in the picture but it looks kind a like copper when it has some of that green corrosion. Anyone else notice this with there s/s cat.

Another thing I noticed is the cat gasket is starting to disinigrate in the corners and I can see through two of the corners so I stuck a little rock wool insulation in the corners to fill the holes.
 

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I'm going to switch back to the s/s scoop and burn it for a month to see if there's any difference in fly ash. Pretty easy switching back and forth.
 
I checked mine at between Christmas and January 1st and it looked great. Some fly ash, but not much.

We have been burning the stove hot and hard, hitting 650 stove tops on a frequent basis.

I have the old style scoop.

I am very pleased with the SS cat.

Good luck,
Bill
 
That green color is interesting. I wonder what reaction is causing that.

Me, i still need to call woodstock and get parts. Just so busy, seems i hardly even have the time to load it up sit around and enjoy.

Todd, have you determined which scoop works "better" yet?
 
Stump_Branch said:
That green color is interesting. I wonder what reaction is causing that.

Me, i still need to call woodstock and get parts. Just so busy, seems i hardly even have the time to load it up sit around and enjoy.

Todd, have you determined which scoop works "better" yet?
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Seems to me the old scoop breaths better and I can shut her down further than the new scoop but the new scoop protects the cat better, almost no fly ash compared to the old scoop.

I'm starting to wonder if that green is killing my cat? Stove takes longer to come up to temp, doesn't get as hot or stay up to temp as long as it did earlier in the year. It still burns clean and my cat temps still go up above 1500 but stove top temps are lagging. I'm calling Woodstock to see what's up.
 
Todd said:
The thing I don't like is the rolling flame inside the scoop during a low cat burn. The old scoop kept the flame down below floating above the logs.
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Sometimes with the flame inside the scoop, I'm not getting as clean a burn as I'd like. I've also gotten a less-than-clean burn with the old scoop and cat and flame in the box, though. I'm still trying to learn how to burn these stoves as clean as possible. Some of it may have to do with my wood not being as dry as it could be. I wonder if Dennis, or anyone else with ancient dry wood, ever sees any smoke out of these stoves once the cat is engaged?
 
Todd, some conversations with those in the know, pallidium, the major consist of the wash as its cheaper, will tarnish when above 800c. Theres a resulting reaction with available oxygen making pallidium 2 oxide. Then there was some jibberish i didnt get but the resulting sulpher i did. This can lead to the green effect or coloring you see.

This is third hand so take it for whats its worth.

I wonder if when heated that hot, its pulling air in from a loose gasket or similar making that occur on the surface of the cat...did you hear back from woodstock?
 
Woody Stover said:
Todd said:
The thing I don't like is the rolling flame inside the scoop during a low cat burn. The old scoop kept the flame down below floating above the logs.
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Sometimes with the flame inside the scoop, I'm not getting as clean a burn as I'd like. I've also gotten a less-than-clean burn with the old scoop and cat and flame in the box, though. I'm still trying to learn how to burn these stoves as clean as possible. Some of it may have to do with my wood not being as dry as it could be. I wonder if Dennis, or anyone else with ancient dry wood, ever sees any smoke out of these stoves once the cat is engaged?
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Woody, we got smoke early this burning season but it was the fault of the cat. We put the new SS cat in as soon as we returned from Woodstock and all has been well. We did pull the cat out once when Todd was asking about it but the cat looked just like new and really nothing much to even brush off. We probably won't pull the cat again until the annual summer cleaning.

The only problem I'm having is that sometimes I have to take the temperature up a bit more before engaging the cat. If I reload with a big coal bed and stove temperature 300+ then the cat lights off super fast.
 
Stump_Branch said:
Todd, some conversations with those in the know, pallidium, the major consist of the wash as its cheaper, will tarnish when above 800c. Theres a resulting reaction with available oxygen making pallidium 2 oxide. Then there was some jibberish i didnt get but the resulting sulpher i did. This can lead to the green effect or coloring you see.

This is third hand so take it for whats its worth.

I wonder if when heated that hot, its pulling air in from a loose gasket or similar making that occur on the surface of the cat...did you hear back from woodstock?
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So, it sounds like it may be a normal reaction. I'm suppose to get a call from them tomorrow but after sweeping my chimney I think I may have a bigger problem. I'm going to have to take apart my pipe and have a look through the crock, I think I may have some build up or something in my horizontal run, I can't even get the stove up to 500!
 
A leak in the chimney pipe could be causing this in flux in oxygen levels. Not sure how it would or could get to the cat. Just a guess.
Is this the downstairs stove? Always liked that hearth.
 
Stump_Branch said:
A leak in the chimney pipe could be causing this in flux in oxygen levels. Not sure how it would or could get to the cat. Just a guess.
Is this the downstairs stove? Always liked that hearth.
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I think your right. Took off the pipe this morning and it was full of creosote. Posting some pics in another thread. I also changed back to top venting, the rear vent added an extra 90 and I think I had too many pipe seams leaking air.
 
See now i always wondered if the reversable flue collars actually affect much. Id be hard pressed i think to include that 90 in the overall equation. I would think there has to be some distance from the flue exit to start adding up 90s.

Good luck though. Post some pics of the new setup. Never tire of seeing that.
 
I have the new cat burning with the SS scoop and the stove is running better than with the ceramic cat. I'm very pleased with the change.
 
Stump_Branch said:
See now i always wondered if the reversable flue collars actually affect much. Id be hard pressed i think to include that 90 in the overall equation. I would think there has to be some distance from the flue exit to start adding up 90s.

Good luck though. Post some pics of the new setup. Never tire of seeing that.
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Here's the new setup with a top vent. No more cat probe through the top, guess I'll have to buy a thermocouple.
 

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Had an interesting chat with a dude from Applied Ceramics about steel cats and scoops. They don't make the steel cats, he said these steel cats come out about once every 10 years then go away because they don't last more than 3 years and also don't produce as much heat or for as long as ceramics do. He also stated the precious metals don't stick as good or last as long as the ceramics. I told him I'd switch mine back and forth to see if there's any difference and let him know.

I guess we shall see in a couple years if the steel cats last or not. I still think they make sense because they are resistant to thermo shock and light off at lower temps. You would think most cat stove manufactures would like the steel because there would be less crumbling and less warranty claims. I also doubt that most people would even notice when they start to fail and just keep burning.

As far as the scoop he said there's been many variations of screens out there and he didn't think any would totally stop flame impingement. I told him I thought the new scoop was more to keep the ash out of the cat and was recommended by the manufacture and he agreed the steel cats can plug much faster than the ceramics. I should of asked him about potassium poisoning dang it.
 
i must have talked with the same guy...i went back to the ceramic...smoke blowing past that new stainless p.o.s....it was killing my neighbors...i cant believe there is only one other guy that had this problem..being that the new stainless is kind of oval and the holder is rectangular....as with everything it comes down to money..the switch to ss combuster is cheaper not better.
 
bjkjoseph said:
i went back to the ceramic...smoke blowing past that new stainless p.o.s....it was killing my neighbors...i cant believe there is only one other guy that had this problem..being that the new stainless is kind of oval and the holder is rectangular....as with everything it comes down to money..the switch to ss combuster is cheaper not better.
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What stove are you running?
 
Interesting thread! I don't know but I don't really like the looks of the SS cat (first pics I've seen of it). Doesn't look like much craftsmanship went into the making of it, IMHO.

I've been burning my Fireview off and on because of the up and down weather we've been having down here in N. Carolina but I'm still loving it.

Thanks for the info Todd!
 
Todd said:
Had an interesting chat with a dude from Applied Ceramics about steel cats and scoops. They don't make the steel cats, he said these steel cats come out about once every 10 years then go away because they don't last more than 3 years and also don't produce as much heat or for as long as ceramics do. He also stated the precious metals don't stick as good or last as long as the ceramics. I told him I'd switch mine back and forth to see if there's any difference and let him know.

I guess we shall see in a couple years if the steel cats last or not. I still think they make sense because they are resistant to thermo shock and light off at lower temps. You would think most cat stove manufactures would like the steel because there would be less crumbling and less warranty claims. I also doubt that most people would even notice when they start to fail and just keep burning.

As far as the scoop he said there's been many variations of screens out there and he didn't think any would totally stop flame impingement. I told him I thought the new scoop was more to keep the ash out of the cat and was recommended by the manufacture and he agreed the steel cats can plug much faster than the ceramics. I should of asked him about potassium poisoning dang it.
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Interesting. I really like my SS cat vs the ceramic one I originally had. I have a lot of confidence there is very little myself or more importantly the rest of the crew at my house can do to damage this cat. I have no fear of it crumbling when I take it out to clean like I did with my old one either. It's almost like having a set of secondary tube in the top of the stove. Load up, engage the cat after a bit and let the stove rip - no worries. I may buy a couple more for the shelf this spring just in cast Woodstock decides to switch back to the ceramic ones.

Bill
 
Dang, a thermocouple...

I never had the chance to run a cermic cat. I guess i can see his point, but they dont make steel so i half expect comments such as those.

I can see his points but for what another year or two? Seems as if steel maybe a compromise. I like it though.
 
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