Tell me about surge protection please

mfglickman · Jan 27, 2012

Can I use a nice surge protector strip like I have on my TV and computer (these are the $50 ish dollar ones, not the $10 Staples specials)? Or do I need something different?

Also battery backup - worth it or no? How long will it last? I only really need it if it will provide heat if power is out for more than 1 day...

Thanks so much,
Mary

John97 · Jan 27, 2012

Alot here seem to be using this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-ULTRABLOK428-Protector-Direct-plug/dp/B00006B81D

As far as a UPS, it will let you keep the stove running in the event of a power outage for a short time allowing you to shut it down properly and avoid things like smoke discharge into the house, etc.

If you aren't home and get a momentary or short power outage, the UPS will keep the stove going like nothing happened. If it's a sustained outage, the batteries will go dead and your stove will shut off like it would otherwise with no power.

To power the stove during a sustained outage you need one of two things:

1) a generator

2) a battery backup cable that connects to a car battery is available for some stoves.

Don2222 · Jan 28, 2012

Hello

First I would like to explain why they are so neccessary. I am the type of person who wants to see the reason behind things.

I have worked on different pellet stoves and recently I have been working on Pelpro Pellet stoves. They hve been made by Canadian Comfort Industries for many years who also make Danson Glo Boy and are definately one of the better stoves with many features.

However their Accutron II digital control board is very suseptable to being crippled from static electricity and power surges from the AC line. If this stove gets a power surge that cripples the Digital Control Panel, then both the combustion fan and the convection fan will never turn off unless you unplug the unit. If the pwoer surge is really bad, then the auger may run continuosly without stopping. This is caused by damaged triacs on the circuit board which are activated by the low limit switch on the exhaust plenum which is an "Open On Rise" type of switch. This means when the stove shuts down mormally and exhaust temps drop below 120 deg F the Low Limit Switch opens and tells the control board to turn off the fans. If the Triacs are damaged then this cannot be done. See pic with yellow arrows pointing to the triacs.

Therefore I always recommend a surge protector and the better ones even more so. But something is alot better than nothing!!

Click to enlarge!

imacman · Jan 28, 2012

mfglickman said:
Can I use a nice surge protector strip like I have on my TV and computer (these are the $50 ish dollar ones, not the $10 Staples specials)? Or do I need something different?
Mary

Mary, most of those "surge power strips" that are sold at Staples, Office Depot, etc, are poor at best.

A lot of members are using this unit....it has pretty good specs and isn't overly expensive:

www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-ULTRABLOK...B81D/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327716671&sr=8-1

mikhen · Jan 28, 2012

Being an electrician, I should probably know this answer, but I don't. Is a whole house surge protector sufficient protection?

UMainah · Jan 28, 2012

John97 said:
Alot here seem to be using this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-ULTRABLOK428-Protector-Direct-plug/dp/B00006B81D

As far as a UPS, it will let you keep the stove running in the event of a power outage for a short time allowing you to shut it down properly and avoid things like smoke discharge into the house, etc.

If you aren't home and get a momentary or short power outage, the UPS will keep the stove going like nothing happened. If it's a sustained outage, the batteries will go dead and your stove will shut off like it would otherwise with no power.

To power the stove during a sustained outage you need one of two things:

1) a generator

2) a battery backup cable that connects to a car battery is available for some stoves.

Anyone know what the difference between this unit http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-ULTRABLOK428-Protector-Direct-plug/dp/B00006B81D and this unit http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-ISOBLOK2-0-2-Outlet-Protector/dp/B0000510R4/ref=pd_vtp_e_5 is? Other than the color, of course.

EDIT: Nevermind, found the answer here: http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=825&txtModelID=3980 in the Q&A

Ejectr · Jan 28, 2012

mikhen said:
Being an electrician, I should probably know this answer, but I don't. Is a whole house surge protector sufficient protection?

If you have a surge protector installed across your panel, the answer is yes. It's protecting all the motors in everything you have like the refrigerator, furnace etc. and every wall outlet. I have read that they aren't quick enough for electronics protection, but I had one installed across my panel at a house on a high elevation in the Berkshires of MA that had a basement that was a sight to see in an electrical storm and never lost a thing.

When lightning used to strike around the area....not even near the house...I'd get arc over to the cellar floor from any metal item sitting on the concrete floor...including the heating oil tank stand! If you sat on the cellar steps in the dark....you could see a purple aura dance across the floor when the lightning would flash. Had the electrical company check it out several times. Found nothing wrong.

I finally grounded the electrical system to the well pipe. Sold the house that summer so don't know if it worked. I think I must have built on an old Indian burial grond or something.

roadking88 · Jan 28, 2012

i use this one..
shuts down the stove with no smoke and acts as a good surge protector...
http://www.amazon.com/APC-BE750G-Saving-Battery-Back-UPS/dp/B000Z80ICM

imacman · Jan 28, 2012

roadking88 said:
i use this one..
shuts down the stove with no smoke and acts as a good surge protector...
http://www.amazon.com/APC-BE750G-Saving-Battery-Back-UPS/dp/B000Z80ICM

This unit only has about 350 joules of protection....900 or above is whats really needed. It also doesn't seem to cover all 3 legs of the power supply....not good.

Glad that it seems to work OK as a battery back-up to allow proper shutdown....it's not a pure sinewave unit....only a stepped approximation unit.

roadking88 · Jan 28, 2012

imacman said:
roadking88 said:

i use this one..
shuts down the stove with no smoke and acts as a good surge protector...
http://www.amazon.com/APC-BE750G-Saving-Battery-Back-UPS/dp/B000Z80ICM

Click to expand...

This unit only has about 350 joules of protection....900 or above is whats really needed. It also doesn't seem to cover all 3 legs of the power supply....not good.

Glad that it seems to work OK as a battery back-up to allow proper shutdown....it's not a pure sinewave unit....only a stepped approximation unit.

it's right in my owners manual as being recommended by Harman mfg..
proven and tested...
if there is a problem they'll have to deal with it.....

UncleAnthony · Jan 28, 2012

Don2222 said:
Hello

First I would like to explain why they are so neccessary. I am the type of person who wants to see the reason behind things.

I have worked on different pellet stoves and recently I have been working on Pelpro Pellet stoves. They hve been made by Canadian Comfort Industries for many years who also make Danson Glo Boy and are definately one of the better stoves with many features.

However their Accutron II digital control board is very suseptable to being crippled from static electricity and power surges from the AC line. If this stove gets a power surge that cripples the Digital Control Panel, then both the combustion fan and the convection fan will never turn off unless you unplug the unit. If the pwoer surge is really bad, then the auger may run continuosly without stopping. This is caused by damaged triacs on the circuit board which are activated by the low limit switch on the exhaust plenum which is an "Open On Rise" type of switch. This means when the stove shuts down mormally and exhaust temps drop below 120 deg F the Low Limit Switch opens and tells the control board to turn off the fans. If the Triacs are damaged then this cannot be done. See pic with yellow arrows pointing to the triacs.

Therefore I always recommend a surge protector and the better ones even more so. But something is alot better than nothing!!

Click to enlarge!

Nice writeup !

imacman · Jan 29, 2012

roadking88 said:
it's right in my owners manual as being recommended by Harman mfg..
proven and tested...if there is a problem they'll have to deal with it.....

Oh, OK. As long as their OK with it, then you're all set.

westom · Jan 29, 2012

imacman said:
Mary, most of those "surge power strips" that are sold at Staples, Office Depot, etc, are poor at best.

If those strips did protection, then manufacturer spec numbers will claim that protection. As imacman notes, they do not claim to protector from any destructive surges.

Take a $4 power strip. Add some ten cent protector parts. Those sell in Staples, Wal-Mart, etc. Also view spec numbers on a Tripplite or Belkin protector. Same near zero numbers. How does its hundreds of joules absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? It doesn't. It claims to protect from surges too tiny to harm electronics.

Other, less expensive, and superior solutions are available. But first learn the scam. Take a $4 power strip with some ten cent protector parts. Sell it for good profit at $7. Or sell the same protector circuit in a more expensive looking Belkin or Tripplite for $45. Monster has a long history of identifying scams. Then selling an equivalent product for maybe $100. Because so many recommend a protector by ignoring the spec numbers. It does not even claim to provide that protection.

1Dtml · Jan 29, 2012

westom said:
imacman said:

Mary, most of those "surge power strips" that are sold at Staples, Office Depot, etc, are poor at best.

Click to expand...

If those strips did protection, then manufacturer spec numbers will claim that protection. As imacman notes, they do not claim to protector from any destructive surges.

Take a $4 power strip. Add some ten cent protector parts. Those sell in Staples, Wal-Mart, etc. Also view spec numbers on a Tripplite or Belkin protector. Same near zero numbers. How does its hundreds of joules absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? It doesn't. It claims to protect from surges too tiny to harm electronics.

Other, less expensive, and superior solutions are available. But first learn the scam. Take a $4 power strip with some ten cent protector parts. Sell it for good profit at $7. Or sell the same protector circuit in a more expensive looking Belkin or Tripplite for $45. Monster has a long history of identifying scams. Then selling an equivalent product for maybe $100. Because so many recommend a protector by ignoring the spec numbers. It does not even claim to provide that protection.

I'm not quite following what you are saying here?

So what specifications specifically are we looking for?

Many have said that higher joules are what counts, so I'm running a Panisonic with over 4000 joules figuring that is overkill seeing everyone is running the Tripplite with 1410 joules.

So will the Tripplite work, or is your point that it is a rip off?

I've had much lower end surge protectors on my computers and tv, and this summer lost two of my surge protectors during a storm, but they did protect the computer and the tv, so at the moment I'm still confused.

Thanks for you input,
1D

SmokeyTheBear · Jan 29, 2012

roadking88 said:
imacman said:

roadking88 said:

i use this one..
shuts down the stove with no smoke and acts as a good surge protector...
http://www.amazon.com/APC-BE750G-Saving-Battery-Back-UPS/dp/B000Z80ICM

Click to expand...

This unit only has about 350 joules of protection....900 or above is whats really needed. It also doesn't seem to cover all 3 legs of the power supply....not good.

Glad that it seems to work OK as a battery back-up to allow proper shutdown....it's not a pure sinewave unit....only a stepped approximation unit.

Click to expand...

it's right in my owners manual as being recommended by Harman mfg..
proven and tested...
if there is a problem they'll have to deal with it.....

I just read your owners manual and yes that unit is recommended for preventing smoke back and allowing for an orderly shutdown during a power loss the owners manual is silent as to its use for surge suppression.

Might be a good question for Harman to answer if a P43 owner was to ask.

edwinjk · Jan 29, 2012

You might want to check with your power company about surge protection. Duke Power
came out with an offer of a surge protection on the meter. It costs about $15 for 12 months.
I left the surge strip on the stove & T.V.,figure it would not hurt.

westom · Jan 29, 2012

1Dtml said:
So what specifications specifically are we looking for?

Many have said that higher joules are what counts, so I'm running a Panisonic with over 4000 joules figuring that is overkill seeing everyone is running the Tripplite with 1410 joules.

A typically destructive surge is hundreds of thousands of joules. Your protectors are near zero. That 1410 joules in a Tripplite means it uses maybe 470 joules in protection - and never more than 940.

Your protection is always defined by the item that absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. That is earth ground. Either you earth that energy before it enters the building. Otherwise nothing stops a hunt for earth destructively via any household appliance. Other and more responsible companies provide these 'whole house' solutions. A major difference exists in the integrity of those more responsible companies including General Electric, Siemens, Intermatic, ABB, Cutler-Hammer, Square D, and Leviton - to name but a few.

Of course, first define which of many anomalies you want to protect from. Above is only protection from transients. No device protects from all anomalies. For transient protection, this is the one sentence that every valid solution must define. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Not safety ground in a wall receptacle. Earth ground. Where hundreds of thousands of joules must harmlessly dissipate.

None above protects from static electric discharges. That solution must already exist inside the controller. Each anomaly has a different solution.

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Tell me about surge protection please

mfglickman

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John97

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Don2222

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imacman

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mikhen

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UMainah

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Ejectr

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roadking88

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imacman

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UncleAnthony

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imacman

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westom

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1Dtml

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SmokeyTheBear

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edwinjk

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