New Construction FPX44 or Monecito Estate

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Ambiance

New Member
Jan 30, 2012
9
Central Idaho
My first time posting and I must say this site is awesome! I have had so many questions and concerns answered just by reading previous posts... but I still am having a hard time deciding on which unit to buy.

We are building a single story 2000 sq ft, double wall insulation (10 in thick walls), passive solar (largest windows facing south), and R70 insulated roof home and we want the wood fireplace to be our main source of heat. We have vaulted (15 ft at peak) ceiling in the room the fireplace will be located, 9 ft everywhere else and the floor plan is fairly open. The fireplace will be floor to ceiling (15 peak) and we like the large viewing area of both the FPX44 and the Estate.

Since we anticipate not needing to use it 24/7 to keep a comfortable temperature, we will probably tend to build a good roaring fire and when the temperature reaches a comfortable level, we will let the fire burn down as we feel the home insulation will hold the heat fairly well. Would there be a distinct advantage of one over the other under these circumstances? Would one burn more efficiently in regard to creosote build-up during the low heat times?
 
I just went through this process too (deciding between FPX Elite and Montecito). Currently waiting to get an FPX Elite 36 installed. Decided to go with FPX instead of the Montecito because of the features it had, including:

1. The FPX has an external blower that can be mounted outside or under the crawlspace etc a good distance away from the fireplace. This should keep the fan noise substantially reduced to almost nothing. The Montecito has a fan built into the unit so it's going to be much louder. Personally I hate it when sitting by the fire and you have to hear the fan whirring all the time. Especially as it gets older and noiser. Harder to repair/replace too. I much prefer a remote fan with almost no noise.

2. The FPX has a cat, which allows slower burns and more heat while in slow burn mode. Also should reduce overall creosote production if slow burns are performed regularly, making cleaning easier and less frequent. Cat is expensive and has to be replaced every 5-7 years, but decreased wood consumption and less frequent cleanings should way more than offset price of the cat. Secondary air burners (as used in the Montecito) can and do go bad too, which also costs money to replace (could be warrantable, depending).

3. The FPX Elites use ordinary firebrick in the firebox. If something happens to them they can easily and cheaply be replaced from a wide variety of suppliers. The Montecito has cast, textured refractory panels that will be much more expensive to replace if they get cracked and will probably have to be special ordered from a Lennox dealer only. As the stove ages, you run the risk of them discontinuing parts like this for it.

4. The FPX uses a much less expensive air cooled chimney. Some people have warned an air cooled chimney allows cold air to penetrate into the fireplace and seep into the house when the unit is not in use. But the FPX instruction set has a "P" trap setup that supposedly eliminates this problem (see instruction manual or product brochure). Hoping that's truly the case.

5. The FPX uses a positive pressure system (i.e. it takes outside air and blows it into the heat exchanger before going into the house). This system keeps the pressure of the heated air inside the house slightly higher than that outside, which helps keep the creepy coldies from seeping into the house via cracks and small leaks. It also tends to pentrate the heat throughout the house better than a standard, non-pressurized convective system. From what I've read here and from a technician that installs both the Montecito and the FPX elites, they say this "POS" pressure system works well (the technician said they're both good units but he would opt for the FPX if he had to choose one for himself). The POS system also introduces fresh air into the house, which some people like because it can help keep the inside air from getting stale (and even oxygen deprived), which can be a potential problem with newer, more airtight homes without a heat exchanger system.

6. Both units look great and have terrific capacity, so it's a wash there.

7. The only feature I truly like about the Montecito better than the FPX, is apparently it functions pretty well as a heating device in the event the electricity goes out. If you use the big heat vents it has, it will passively output a large amount of convective heat without a blower working. But personally I think the Montecito's heat grilles are ugly over the fireplace, plus I have a generator. Also, I'm not sure the FPX wont put out decent heat in a power outage either. Just heard the Montecito has an edge there.

8. The Montecito does have a better warranty than the FPX. Although after reading it, it's pretty legalistic and sounds like there's wiggle room for much of what's "covered."

I notice you live in Idaho, I know it can get really cold there. If you really want to heat your house, you might want to consider a stand alone stove instead of these fireplace units. Generally I think fireplace units look better, but a high efficiency stove is even better than these fireplace units for heating efficiency. If I didn't live in a temperate zone and lived near the rockies intead, I'd go with a nice modern soapstone stove like an Equinox or the Woodstock Progress especially. If you can stand its appearance, the Blaze King KING model seems to be generally regarded as the very best.

Good luck!
 
I was looking into those as well, but also included the RSF Onyx and the Quadra-fire 7100. I chose the Quadra-fire 7100 because it had very similar features to the FPX44, except the posi-pressure system could be used as an auxiliary air system for pulling air (for the fan, not combustion) for another location in the house. I read a few posts on really cold weather and posi-pressure (outside air for the fan) not being such a great thing. I think the CAT with the FPX44 is a good thing for longer burns (and hotter) if you are ok with maintenance,etc. I will say that I typically get nighttime burn cycles of 8-9 hours (fireplace putting out heat and hot coals for restart - not still having an active fire). The 7100 is also considerably cheaper than the FPX44, has a similar firebox size, and uses the air cooled chimney like the 44.
 
Thanks Woodrow! That is a good point about the fire brick I had not thought about. One of the factors that weighs heavily on my decision has been the fact that with built in units encased in a stone faced fireplace it would be very difficult to replace the unit if it was no longer functional or the unit parts were no longer available (I tend to think waaay ahead ), so I like the idea of readily available fire brick. I've even considered getting spare parts for the things most likely to wear out :) . And we, like you, are planning a generator so the fan would be no problem. We are very fortunate to have a dealer here that sells both products and is very knowledgeable. They said they have installed several of the FPX (which is the one I am leaning toward) in the area we are building and have had no problem with the chimney and the outside air ducting. When I went in the showroom they had a FPX44 providing the heat for the showroom.

We actually had considered the Blaze King built into an alcove but could not find a way to make it work for us.

We have firewood on our property and in ajacent state and federal lands but it is all lodgepole pine and ponderosa pine so we also want to consider which unit would burn pine the best.

Congratulations on the new stove!
 
Thanks Kiltedpiper 98! I did look at the 7100 and it sounds like a good unit but I really like the idea of having a good local dealer and the dealer I am planning on using does not sell the 7100. They do also sell the RSF and BIS but I decided against the RSF and the BIS is really the same as the Montecito. In regard to the BIS and Montecito I don't know if there is an advantage of buying from one company over the other.
 
I have a Montecito (not an Estate) and an older BIS. Quite happy with both. Many seem to like FPX but when I installed the Montecito it didn't seem like a good idea to allow outside air into my home to create "positive pressure" or to have an air-cooled chimney as opposed to safer and better-insulated Class A. Search FPX reviews here and most people are happy, some not so much.
 
Thanks LIJack! It really is helpful hearing from all of you. I guess those points about the chimney and cold outside air is the real decision points we will have to consider. Maybe we can talk to the dealer/installer and find out where they would envision the ideal location for the air intake for our floor plan and let that be the deciding factor. Does anyone think the necessity of burning pine is a factor?
 
LIJack said:
I have a Montecito (not an Estate) and an older BIS. Quite happy with both. Many seem to like FPX but when I installed the Montecito it didn't seem like a good idea to allow outside air into my home to create "positive pressure" or to have an air-cooled chimney as opposed to safer and better-insulated Class A. Search FPX reviews here and most people are happy, some not so much.

Lljack can you refer me to the posts where someone was disappointed or otherwise unhappy with their FPX elite? I searched but couldn't find any. I did read "bob the builder's" (who was also considering the Montecito vs the FPX) posts where he repeatedly expressed his "cold air infiltration" concerns about the air cooled chimney, but he never owned one. He went with the Montecito estate and was happy with it, but occasional use/aesthetics took precedence over heating ability for him.
 
We run an FPX44 in one of our showrooms most of the winter, it heats like crazy. We install several a year, and they are great! I can't speak for the others though. As for the positive pressure issue, would you rather lose a little heat out of the outlying rooms, or be sucking in ice cold air into your home from the outlying rooms? The outlying rooms are the hardest to heat, it would make more since to lose a little heat. This system makes more since especially in a tight home like you are describing.
 
Webby3650---I think I understand what you are saying. The ice cold air coming from the outlying rooms that was not warmed by circulating fireplace heat would be worse than a little cold air seeping from around the fireplace. You feel the POS system would work well in our situation.
 
Ambiance said:
Webby3650---I think I understand what you are saying. The ice cold air coming from the outlying rooms that was not warmed by circulating fireplace heat would be worse than a little cold air seeping from around the fireplace. You feel the POS system would work well in our situation.

The posi pressure works. What Webby was saying is that if you have a FP without positive pressure, the combustion of the fire will draw air from any available opening (ie any crack, gap, air vent etc) allowing cold air to infiltrate your home. The posi pressure brings cold air in, warms it and blows it into the house. The house becomes pressurized and instead of cold air leaking in.... it leaks out. In this case a good thing.

If the FPX is installed corectly you will not get any cold air seepage around the unit. I have not had any, even on windy days with the unit off.

I do burn pine, often in the first cycle. The FPX burns it well....and very hot. It does not last as long as good hardwood though.
 
I also have no doubt the FPX will be enough to heat your home. Not sure what your layout is like, but bedrooms may be a little cooler. Air movement will be the key. If you have a newer furnace with a circulation setting for the blower you can get the warm air moved and very good temperature uniformity.
 
Woodrow said:
I just went through this process too (deciding between FPX Elite and Montecito). Currently waiting to get an FPX Elite 36 installed. Decided to go with FPX :

Woodrow welcome to the FPX family. Be sure to post up some pics of the install and give a full review once you get it broken in.
 
Woodrow said:
I just went through this process too (deciding between FPX Elite and Montecito). Currently waiting to get an FPX Elite 36 installed. Decided to go with FPX instead of the Montecito because of the features it had, including:

****** I have the FPX 44 as well, 4th winter heating with it. Thought I would add comments to Woodrows excellent post. Note - I know nothing about the Montecito unit so this just applies to the FPX

1. The FPX has an external blower that can be mounted outside or under the crawlspace etc a good distance away from the fireplace. This should keep the fan noise substantially reduced to almost nothing. The Montecito has a fan built into the unit so it's going to be much louder. Personally I hate it when sitting by the fire and you have to hear the fan whirring all the time. Especially as it gets older and noiser. Harder to repair/replace too. I much prefer a remote fan with almost no noise.

********* Fan noise on the FPX is not an issue. I have the fireplace in our family room where we watch TV and dont have to adjust the volume w/fan running

2. The FPX has a cat, which allows slower burns and more heat while in slow burn mode. Also should reduce overall creosote production if slow burns are performed regularly, making cleaning easier and less frequent. Cat is expensive and has to be replaced every 5-7 years, but decreased wood consumption and less frequent cleanings should way more than offset price of the cat. Secondary air burners (as used in the Montecito) can and do go bad too, which also costs money to replace (could be warrantable, depending).

******* I recently sent an email to Travis asking for indicators as to when the CAT should be replaced. the reply "The combustor will only need replacing if it is crumbling to the point that the exhaust cannot go thru it. As long as the holes are unobstructed the combustor will work great." I will add that after 4 years the Cat seems fine.

3. The FPX Elites use ordinary firebrick in the firebox. If something happens to them they can easily and cheaply be replaced from a wide variety of suppliers. The Montecito has cast, textured refractory panels that will be much more expensive to replace if they get cracked and will probably have to be special ordered from a Lennox dealer only. As the stove ages, you run the risk of them discontinuing parts like this for it.

4. The FPX uses a much less expensive air cooled chimney. Some people have warned an air cooled chimney allows cold air to penetrate into the fireplace and seep into the house when the unit is not in use. But the FPX instruction set has a "P" trap setup that supposedly eliminates this problem (see instruction manual or product brochure). Hoping that's truly the case.

**** no issue with cold air seeping in

5. The FPX uses a positive pressure system (i.e. it takes outside air and blows it into the heat exchanger before going into the house). This system keeps the pressure of the heated air inside the house slightly higher than that outside, which helps keep the creepy coldies from seeping into the house via cracks and small leaks. It also tends to pentrate the heat throughout the house better than a standard, non-pressurized convective system. From what I've read here and from a technician that installs both the Montecito and the FPX elites, they say this "POS" pressure system works well (the technician said they're both good units but he would opt for the FPX if he had to choose one for himself). The POS system also introduces fresh air into the house, which some people like because it can help keep the inside air from getting stale (and even oxygen deprived), which can be a potential problem with newer, more airtight homes without a heat exchanger system.

**** POS works! I am in process on upgrading windows. I still have a few that are drafty - when the FPX fan is running there is zero draft anywhere in the house. Does a very good job of circulating the heat - I took a candle and held it in all the door ways - clear to see.

6. Both units look great and have terrific capacity, so it's a wash there.


7. The only feature I truly like about the Montecito better than the FPX, is apparently it functions pretty well as a heating device in the event the electricity goes out. If you use the big heat vents it has, it will passively output a large amount of convective heat without a blower working. But personally I think the Montecito's heat grilles are ugly over the fireplace, plus I have a generator. Also, I'm not sure the FPX wont put out decent heat in a power outage either. Just heard the Montecito has an edge there.

**** Luckily we dont get too many power outages but did have an extended outage in the freak october storm. Ran the FPX and it did provide some radiant heat but clearly would not have been enough during a real cold winter power outage.

8. The Montecito does have a better warranty than the FPX. Although after reading it, it's pretty legalistic and sounds like there's wiggle room for much of what's "covered."

I notice you live in Idaho, I know it can get really cold there. If you really want to heat your house, you might want to consider a stand alone stove instead of these fireplace units. Generally I think fireplace units look better, but a high efficiency stove is even better than these fireplace units for heating efficiency. If I didn't live in a temperate zone and lived near the rockies intead, I'd go with a nice modern soapstone stove like an Equinox or the Woodstock Progress especially. If you can stand its appearance, the Blaze King KING model seems to be generally regarded as the very best.

Good luck!
 
Trail_Time said:
Woodrow said:
I just went through this process too (deciding between FPX Elite and Montecito). Currently waiting to get an FPX Elite 36 installed. Decided to go with FPX :

Woodrow welcome to the FPX family. Be sure to post up some pics of the install and give a full review once you get it broken in.

+1 yes welcome to the fam...we got our own "handshake" too, kinda like those guys on harley's that only wave to other guys on harley's! jk, we'll wave to anyone... :)
 
Hey thanks for the welcome wagon from all you FPX'ers! Glad to hear that everyone who actually owns one is happy with it, makes me feel like I made the right decision. Also glad to hear that the fears expressed from non-FPX owners about an air cooled chimney allowing cold air to seep into the house are false.

I looked at the installation manual and it describes the "P" trap that keeps the cold air out. But even without the P trap, I don't see how cold air could make it into the house. The cooling air that goes up the chimney (between the two flue tube walls) is routed there from the cooling shround around the stove. The stove's cooling shroud has no vents leading inside the house. It only has three connections I can see: 2 air inlets from outside and 1 outlet that connects to the chimney's air cooled chamber and again, vents outside. When the fire is going, the outside vents suck in cool air and rout it through the cooling shroud. The air then heats up and rises through the air cooled chimney's cavity (between the two flue pipe sections). So when the fire is out, any cold air that might come down the air cooled chimney (between the flue tube walls) and into the stove's cooling shroud could only be vented back outside, not inside. The only possible caveat is if the stove's cooling shroud is where the combustion air is tapped from. Then I could see that some air might possibly leak into the firebox, but even then if the air valve is closed and the door gaskets are good, air shouldn't come into the house anyway. But I dont think this is where the combustion air comes from. Doesn't it come from the outside air supply from the blower?

Another thing I noticed, is that in the FPX manual it specifies that double walled air cooled flue pipe is called for. The Simpson Duravent 8"x12" is "preferred" (in bold letters even). It says Travis sells this particular brand. Is it preferred simply because they sell it or is this pipe better quality than the other listed choices? (which are Temco 82 - Firecraft FTF8 (Superior TF8) - FMI 8DM - Marco 8D)
 
There are -- in the reviews, not the forums -- several reports either of air seepage or of being instructed not to use posi pressure in cold climates. Look under FPX in the stove reviews section selectable on the homepage. That's what I was talking about. But most people seem happy. Hope your install works well.
 
Looks like the combustion air is taken from the blower, not from the cooling shroud venting system. Here's a few pics of the system in case anyone is interested in seeing it...
 

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Woodrow - you know way more than I do about the FPX LOL .... I'm not a real techy kind of guy. What I do know is the FPX heats my house, looks great too. Just yesterday the oil truck pulled up to the neighbors house and I commented to my wife.... look the oil man, I feel bad for them!

If there is one "con" I have found with the FPX its wood consumption. It is a hungry beast! I have used between 5-6 cord a year. I read about the BK stove owners getting 3 week burns out of 4 splits (LOL) and I have envy.
 
My installer said the "P" trap is necessary and should be installed that way. I guess it's kinda like what the plumbing does on sinks and such.
 
I can't comment on the Monecito, but I sure do love my FPX! It pours out the heat day and night.

One issue I had that I haven't seen anyone else refer to is condensation on the air intake ducts for the air-cooled chimney. I have the P-traps, as recommended. But as soon as the outside temps got down around or below freezing, the air being drawn in to those ducts cooled the ducts below the dewpoint in my unheated attic area through which I had run the ducts. The outside surfaces of the ducts became dripping wet, and water was able to run down them toward my fireplace unit. Unacceptable! I ended up insulating the bejeebers out of the ducts. Wrapped them in duct insulation and tons of fiberglass. That took care of the problem, but frankly I'm surprised I'm the only one with that issue.

The FPX is a heat monster, and it sure is a looker.

-speak
 
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