PROGRESS HYBRID--How do I know . . . ?

scotsman · Feb 6, 2012

Two questions:
How should I know (or at what temperature) the cat should be engaged?

How does one know if it IS engaged?

I think my explosions may be from engaging cat at too low a temp. Is there an optimum temp on the Woodstock provided thermometers? Could sure use some guidance here. Every time it 'splodes, the top stone rises and soot is forcefully expelled followed by ME doing the clean-up!

Appreciate it.

ciccio · Feb 6, 2012

Texas boy said:
Two questions:
How should I know (or at what temperature) the cat should be engaged?

How does one know if it IS engaged?

I think my explosions may be from engaging cat at too low a temp. Is there an optimum temp on the Woodstock provided thermometers? Could sure use some guidance here. Every time it 'splodes, the top stone rises and soot is forcefully expelled followed by ME doing the clean-up!

Appreciate it.

I engage the cat at around 275 stove top with the woodstock thermometer or 300 to 400 on the flue single wall pipe...I know the cat is engaged by seeing the stove top temp rising up...

hope this helps, that must be some explosion to lift that top stone...

scotsman · Feb 6, 2012

ciccio said:
Texas boy said:

Two questions:
How should I know (or at what temperature) the cat should be engaged?

How does one know if it IS engaged?

I think my explosions may be from engaging cat at too low a temp. Is there an optimum temp on the Woodstock provided thermometers? Could sure use some guidance here. Every time it 'splodes, the top stone rises and soot is forcefully expelled followed by ME doing the clean-up!

Appreciate it.

Click to expand...

I engage the cat at around 275 stove top with the woodstock thermometer or 300 to 400 on the flue single wall pipe...I know the cat is engaged by seeing the stove top temp rising up...

hope this helps, that must be some explosion to lift that top stone...

275 is about where I've been turning the handle. Is there a more immediate way to tell, since I'm trying to avoid those explosions? By the time I figure out the temp isn't rising, I've had an explosion. I'm assuming that's what's causing the problem--the cat kicking in and the gases igniting, but that IS an assumption. BTW, my top stone weighs in right at 42 lbs.

ControledBurn · Feb 6, 2012

Hi Terry,
The cat is engaged when the bypass controller (which is the brass lever on the very front of your Progress) is turned all the way counter-clockwise. It will say "Bypass Closed". When you are re-loading or starting from cold, you turn that lever all the way clockwise to disengage the catalytic combuster. It will read "Bypass Open" Follow the directions in your owner's guide. If your original guide is missing pages 14-16 as mine was, contact Woodstock and they will shoot you the corrected manual.

I have suggested to Woodstock that a better choice of labeling for newbies like me would be " Cat On " or Cat Off" ;-)
Turn the lever counter-clockwise for Cat On, clockwise for Cat Off

Stay Warm

ciccio · Feb 6, 2012

Texas boy said:
ciccio said:

Texas boy said:

Two questions:
How should I know (or at what temperature) the cat should be engaged?

How does one know if it IS engaged?

I think my explosions may be from engaging cat at too low a temp. Is there an optimum temp on the Woodstock provided thermometers? Could sure use some guidance here. Every time it 'splodes, the top stone rises and soot is forcefully expelled followed by ME doing the clean-up!

Appreciate it.

Click to expand...

I engage the cat at around 275 stove top with the woodstock thermometer or 300 to 400 on the flue single wall pipe...I know the cat is engaged by seeing the stove top temp rising up...

hope this helps, that must be some explosion to lift that top stone...

Click to expand...

275 is about where I've been turning the handle. Is there a more immediate way to tell, since I'm trying to avoid those explosions? By the time I figure out the temp isn't rising, I've had an explosion. I'm assuming that's what's causing the problem--the cat kicking in and the gases igniting, but that IS an assumption. BTW, my top stone weighs in right at 42 lbs.

Terry, there have been times when I engaged at 400 stove top from a cold start and still got the same results as engaging at 275 example same burn times so give that a try and see what happens or when you engage do not close that air all the way down leave it open a quarter inch or so from the closed position.
If it is warm outside i usually leave my air damper open a bit more, it all depends but I hope I never see an explosion like you...

scotsman · Feb 6, 2012

ControledBurn said:
Hi Terry,
The cat is engaged when the bypass controller (which is the brass lever on the very front of your Progress) is turned all the way counter-clockwise. It will say "Bypass Closed". When you are re-loading or starting from cold, you turn that lever all the way clockwise to disengage the catalytic combuster. It will read "Bypass Open" Follow the directions in your owner's guide. If your original guide is missing pages 14-16 as mine was, contact Woodstock and they will shoot you the corrected manual.

I have suggested to Woodstock that a better choice of labeling for newbies like me would be " Cat On " or Cat Off" ;-)
Turn the lever counter-clockwise for Cat On, clockwise for Cat Off

Stay Warm

Yes, I know the mechanical aspect of how to open the bypass door. In fact, I quickly pointed out to Woodstock that their manual instructions were incorrect concerning the CW/CCW issue. The cat is engaged when the handle is turned all the way CW, not CCW--at least on MY hybrid it's that way!

My objective was to learn if there is some other way to determine if the cat is operating JUST AFTER the bypass is opened. Just because the bypass is OPEN doesn't mean the cat is a-goin'! Here again, I'm assuming that the cat is being opened too soon and the explosion occurs when it lights off and the gases are ignited--but I don't KNOW that for sure.

Of course, I suppose one way to know for SURE would be to engage the cat when the thermo needle hits the silver area and wait . . . When it goes WHUMMMPH, you can say, "Yup, it's engaged!" The only problem with this method is that the top pops up and sooty debris is deposited all over everything, which I then get to clean up! FUN!!

ciccio · Feb 6, 2012

Texas boy said:
ControledBurn said:

Hi Terry,
The cat is engaged when the bypass controller (which is the brass lever on the very front of your Progress) is turned all the way counter-clockwise. It will say "Bypass Closed". When you are re-loading or starting from cold, you turn that lever all the way clockwise to disengage the catalytic combuster. It will read "Bypass Open" Follow the directions in your owner's guide. If your original guide is missing pages 14-16 as mine was, contact Woodstock and they will shoot you the corrected manual.

I have suggested to Woodstock that a better choice of labeling for newbies like me would be " Cat On " or Cat Off" ;-)
Turn the lever counter-clockwise for Cat On, clockwise for Cat Off

Stay Warm

Click to expand...

Yes, I know the mechanical aspect of how to open the bypass door. In fact, I quickly pointed out to Woodstock that their manual instructions were incorrect concerning the CW/CCW issue. The cat is engaged when the handle is turned all the way CW, not CCW--at least on MY hybrid it's that way!

My objective was to learn if there is some other way to determine if the cat is operating JUST AFTER the bypass is opened. Just because the bypass is OPEN doesn't mean the cat is a-goin'! Here again, I'm assuming that the cat is being opened too soon and the explosion occurs when it lights off and the gases are ignited--but I don't KNOW that for sure.

Of course, I suppose one way to know for SURE would be to engage the cat when the thermo needle hits the silver area and wait . . . When it goes WHUMMMPH, you can say, "Yup, it's engaged!" The only problem with this method is that the top pops up and sooty debris is deposited all over everything, which I then get to clean up! FUN!!

Terry on my stove the cat is engaged in the ccw position

HollowHill · Feb 6, 2012

Terry, I believe that those explosions are caused by gases in the fire box being spontaneously ignited all at once. Do you also get a flash of aurora borealis effect in the fire box when this happens? I have had similar (although not to the extent of lifting the top stone). One time I had a muffled boom whilst I was out of the room and I think that was a backfire, caused by my inadvertently covering up the front hole that is in between the two andirons. Now I always check to make sure that hole is visible. What I have been trying lately that seems to help lessen the exploding gases is the following: on reload, put in two small splits, let them ignite, then load the stove, turn draft down half way, wait 10 minutes or so, and if stove top temp is 300 or higher, closing the bypass. I leave the draft at 1/2 way for another 3 minutes or so, then turn draft down to 3/4 closed. After two minutes or so, turn the draft down to it is 1/8" or so from the bottom. From a cold start, I will get some kindling going, then add a couple of small splits, let them get going well, then load the stove, wait 10 minutes or 15, until the wood looks engaged, then turn the draft down to 1/2 and wait for the stove top temp to get around 300, then close the bypass, wait 5 minutes, then turn the draft down to 3/4 closed, then wait 3 minutes or so and turn the draft down to 1/8" from bottom. I've had problems with the cat stalling if I try to rush things. Also, have you checked your cat? I checked mine the other day, after 3 weeks of burning and it was just about plugged. Just wondering if that might cause a build up of gases in your firebox, because they can't exit thru the cat very quickly, if plugged. Also, I would talk to WS, they are very helpful. Good luck.

Backwoods Savage · Feb 6, 2012

Terry, quit turning the draft down so low. Let that thing burn a while. Maybe we need to send you some colder weather so you can heat that thing up. lol

scotsman · Feb 7, 2012

ciccio said:
Texas boy said:

ControledBurn said:

Hi Terry,
The cat is engaged when the bypass controller (which is the brass lever on the very front of your Progress) is turned all the way counter-clockwise. It will say "Bypass Closed". When you are re-loading or starting from cold, you turn that lever all the way clockwise to disengage the catalytic combuster. It will read "Bypass Open" Follow the directions in your owner's guide. If your original guide is missing pages 14-16 as mine was, contact Woodstock and they will shoot you the corrected manual.

I have suggested to Woodstock that a better choice of labeling for newbies like me would be " Cat On " or Cat Off" ;-)
Turn the lever counter-clockwise for Cat On, clockwise for Cat Off

Stay Warm

Click to expand...

Yes, I know the mechanical aspect of how to open the bypass door. In fact, I quickly pointed out to Woodstock that their manual instructions were incorrect concerning the CW/CCW issue. The cat is engaged when the handle is turned all the way CW, not CCW--at least on MY hybrid it's that way!

My objective was to learn if there is some other way to determine if the cat is operating JUST AFTER the bypass is opened. Just because the bypass is OPEN doesn't mean the cat is a-goin'! Here again, I'm assuming that the cat is being opened too soon and the explosion occurs when it lights off and the gases are ignited--but I don't KNOW that for sure.

Of course, I suppose one way to know for SURE would be to engage the cat when the thermo needle hits the silver area and wait . . . When it goes WHUMMMPH, you can say, "Yup, it's engaged!" The only problem with this method is that the top pops up and sooty debris is deposited all over everything, which I then get to clean up! FUN!!

Click to expand...

Terry on my stove the cat is engaged in the ccw position

You know, that is an interesting difference for having the same stove. I came home and checked my stove, and sure enough, the handle turns CW to open the vent into the cat. It would seem they would all be the same.

ciccio · Feb 7, 2012

Texas boy said:
ciccio said:

Texas boy said:

ControledBurn said:

Hi Terry,
The cat is engaged when the bypass controller (which is the brass lever on the very front of your Progress) is turned all the way counter-clockwise. It will say "Bypass Closed". When you are re-loading or starting from cold, you turn that lever all the way clockwise to disengage the catalytic combuster. It will read "Bypass Open" Follow the directions in your owner's guide. If your original guide is missing pages 14-16 as mine was, contact Woodstock and they will shoot you the corrected manual.

I have suggested to Woodstock that a better choice of labeling for newbies like me would be " Cat On " or Cat Off" ;-)
Turn the lever counter-clockwise for Cat On, clockwise for Cat Off

Stay Warm

Click to expand...

Yes, I know the mechanical aspect of how to open the bypass door. In fact, I quickly pointed out to Woodstock that their manual instructions were incorrect concerning the CW/CCW issue. The cat is engaged when the handle is turned all the way CW, not CCW--at least on MY hybrid it's that way!

My objective was to learn if there is some other way to determine if the cat is operating JUST AFTER the bypass is opened. Just because the bypass is OPEN doesn't mean the cat is a-goin'! Here again, I'm assuming that the cat is being opened too soon and the explosion occurs when it lights off and the gases are ignited--but I don't KNOW that for sure.

Of course, I suppose one way to know for SURE would be to engage the cat when the thermo needle hits the silver area and wait . . . When it goes WHUMMMPH, you can say, "Yup, it's engaged!" The only problem with this method is that the top pops up and sooty debris is deposited all over everything, which I then get to clean up! FUN!!

Click to expand...

Terry on my stove the cat is engaged in the ccw position

Click to expand...

You know, that is an interesting difference for having the same stove. I came home and checked my stove, and sure enough, the handle turns CW to open the vent into the cat. It would seem they would all be the same.[/quote

That is correct Terry, the vent is open in the cw position but the cat is in bypass mode not engaged....when you turn it ccw that is when the vent is closed and the smoke goes thru the cat.

Todd · Feb 7, 2012

Could be that extra dry 100 year old wood your burning? Might be outgassing too quickly at the beginning of the burn. Maybe try engaging at lower temps before that wood has a chance to relieve itself?

Woody Stover · Feb 7, 2012

Todd said:
Could be that extra dry 100 year old wood your burning? Might be outgassing too quickly at the beginning of the burn. Maybe try engaging at lower temps before that wood has a chance to relieve itself?

Or maybe he is putting a lot of small splits in instead of a few bigger splits?

ciccio said:
That is correct Terry, the vent is open in the cw position but the cat is in bypass mode not engaged....when you turn it ccw that is when the vent is closed and the smoke goes thru the cat.

There's a pic here, a little more than half way down the page...June 30 entry. Pic is a little misleading though. It shows the smoke path in red that would occur with the bypass closed, but the bypass is open in the pic...

http://woodstocksoapstoneco.blogspot.com/search/label/New Stove

scotsman · Feb 7, 2012

Woody Stover said:
Todd said:

Could be that extra dry 100 year old wood your burning? Might be outgassing too quickly at the beginning of the burn. Maybe try engaging at lower temps before that wood has a chance to relieve itself?

Click to expand...

Or maybe he is putting a lot of small splits in instead of a few bigger splits?

ciccio said:

That is correct Terry, the vent is open in the cw position but the cat is in bypass mode not engaged....when you turn it ccw that is when the vent is closed and the smoke goes thru the cat.

Click to expand...

There's a pic here, a little more than half way down the page...June 30 entry. Pic is a little misleading though. It shows the smoke path in red that would occur with the bypass closed, but the bypass is open in the pic...

http://woodstocksoapstoneco.blogspot.com/search/label/New Stove

(very long, drawn out silence) . . . . a dim light is coming on and I'm feeling really brilliant! :red:

Woody Stover · Feb 7, 2012

Edited to fix link:

http://woodstocksoapstoneco.blogspot.com/search/label/New Stove

Backwoods Savage · Feb 7, 2012

Terry, don't feel bad. We all goof once in a while, or if you are like me, it is a common thing. ;-)

scotsman · Feb 7, 2012

Backwoods Savage said:
Terry, don't feel bad. We all goof once in a while, or if you are like me, it is a common thing. ;-)

It's VERY irritating, too! :mad:

Y'be careful and read and study and y'STILL step in a wet cowpie! >:-(

WarmInIowa · Feb 7, 2012

In response to your original question, if you bend way down and look up into your stove, just up above the top of the glass, you can see the cat glowing when it is engaged. It's hard to imagine your stove is CW while the rest are CCW - that would be really weird. What has Woodstock had to say about that?

binko · Feb 7, 2012

WarmInIowa,

That is not the cat glowing up there above the window, it's the Inconel screen to keep flyash out of the cat. Yes that screen can get hot enough to glow with a good fire.
The cat is not visible thru the window or from anywhere in the firebox either. You can only see it if you lift the stone top off and remove the stainless steel heat shield.
You are right about the CCW turn to engage the cat.
If you do not have a cat temp probe installed, then let the stove top reach 250 or more for a couple of minutes and close bypass (CCW). The cat will be working. YOu can always go outside and check the chimney.
If you see no smoke or only white smoke then it's working. Remember that white smoke is not pollution but rather water vapor as a result of combustion. Water is a byproduct of combustion. You will not see it all of the time. It is a function of atmospheric conditions. It's the same as you don't always see a contrail off of a jet plane overhead. On some days it may go from nearly one end of the horizon to the other, another day it may be shorter and on yet other days it's not visible at all.

WarmInIowa · Feb 7, 2012

You are right! I guess I was so used to the Fireview, I thought I was looking at the cat lit up. I know it is farther back toward the center - oops!

scotsman · Feb 7, 2012

WarmInIowa said:
In response to your original question, if you bend way down and look up into your stove, just up above the top of the glass, you can see the cat glowing when it is engaged. It's hard to imagine your stove is CW while the rest are CCW - that would be really weird. What has Woodstock had to say about that?

Uh, well, um, ahem <cough, cough> I'd rather not talk about it, because it was operator error :red: but want to give Woody Stover credit for pointing out that the diagram from which I was operating was incorrect. In other words, I had it by-pass-ackwards. Thought I was in cat when I was in by-pass and vice versa. So, thanks Woody!

Yes it WOULD be strange to have my stove different from the rest and that comment from ciccio made the light come on dimly and then a little brighter until Woody commented. So, then I posed a "hypothetical" question for Ron about a friend of mine who was having trouble with his stove and wasn't smart enough to figure it out on his own. :long:

oldspark · Feb 7, 2012

Are you sure it wasn't the wood? :cheese:

scotsman · Feb 8, 2012

WarmInIowa said:
In response to your original question, if you bend way down and look up into your stove, just up above the top of the glass, you can see the cat glowing when it is engaged. It's hard to imagine your stove is CW while the rest are CCW - that would be really weird. What has Woodstock had to say about that?

I used to do that with my FV, but it doesn't work with my Progress.

scotsman · Feb 8, 2012

oldspark said:
Are you sure it wasn't the wood? :cheese:

Must have been !!!

(I wish I could claim that!)

Woody Stover · Feb 8, 2012

binko said:
WarmInIowa,

That is not the cat glowing up there above the window, it's the Inconel screen to keep flyash out of the cat. Yes that screen can get hot enough to glow with a good fire

I wondered about that with the PH. If the screen isn't glowing and the cat is lit off strong, can you see a faint glow if you look up through the screen or is the combustor just too far back to see any glowing?

PROGRESS HYBRID--How do I know . . . ?

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