Whats in your stove???

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Status
Not open for further replies.

IHATEPROPANE

Minister of Fire
Feb 24, 2011
1,387
NoPellettons, MA
Lets take a look into what the insides of your stoves look like.....Maybe I am wrong but I think the parts that make these things run are made by very few manufacturers....That the difference between Harman (Harmon and Harmen) and those that are considered to be lesser quality are very similar indeed. That the biggest diffference is more marketing than nuts and bolts.

Here is what I know makes my stove run:

Hudson River West Point

Combustion blower Fasco
Convection blower Fasco

I cannot see the auger nameplate...will have to wait until it dies to find out.

Anyone else willing to share?? Lets see how similar or different these things really are!
 
Other than the parts......

The biggest difference is the engineering. How the exchanger is designed. The way the gases exit the unit. The burn pot design and how efficient it is at complete combustion.

Lots of parts are the same.... Its the way they are built that seperates the Caddy's from the Yugo's..... IMO
 
Enviro Omega

Combustion blower Jakel

Convection Blower Fasco

Auger motor Gleason Avery

Agitator motor Gleason Avery

Breckwell bigE

Combustion blower Fasco

Convection Blower Fasco

Auger motor Merkle

Quad Nova 800

Combustion blower EB Papst

Convection Blower EB Papst

Auger motor Merkle
 
Oh, good grief. You really want to go down that road.

Both of my blowers are FASCO.

Like all blowers they actually hate heat and crud.

You put those blowers in an enclosed space and close to the hot parts and you are asking for trouble, the same can be said for the electronics in the stoves.

That is in fact one of the issues I've been fighting. Seems that if I remove just a bit more heat via the heat exchanger my blowers (and the stove) are much happier.

If you are looking in Bill the convection blower change I made has taken care of some heat related issues.

The stove's controller is a fairly stock unit as well, and the same controller manufacturer also makes the controls for a large number of stove manufacturers in many different configurations.

While I'm on the control side of things one of the things that causes controllers to go belly up is failing, failed, or cruded up blowers.

I haven't even looked at my auger motor.

The igniter on the stove is also a fairly common cartridge heater and there are several third party makers of equivalent or similar igniters (I'm currently on a third party unit).

The stove has a fiber blanket protecting the hopper area from extreme temperatures and it would have helped to have a bit more in the stove to tone down the heat inside the shell where the blowers and electronics are.

The rest of the stove is made up of what appears to be common sub-assemblies as well, however, I haven't had a chance to look at some similar stoves.

This is just scratching the surface. One only needs to read a few dozen stove manuals to realize there are a lot of common parts.
 
smoke show said:
IHATEPROPANE said:
Whats in your stove???

I dunno, global parts I assume.

Haven't needed many.


I'll 2nd!!!just parts that will need replacig no matter how well cared for. Hard to pinch pennies in this area seams they've got us here, unless they swith to a standard motor which could be done.... but service equals $$$$$
 
I now listing parts is not provin much, But it could be an interesting show!

Seems bears kackling already! ;-) hehe

OK some one said popcorn where is it already!

There are also variables within the parts themselves. It depends on what the manu wants to spend. Some blowers wil only have bushings, While others will have bearings. Auger motors have different specs as well. You'll see intermitent and continues duty ratings.
 
I dunno if this is gonna prove anything on my end.

I had a Motorola cellphone years back and I loved it, hell it was better then the damn smartphone I have now.

It never let me down, used it for alot of years.

Some vehicles have a Motorola module in it that has a very high failure rate(I fix them daily).

I'll just leave it at that. for now.
 
Yeah, I'm cackling.

Maybe I'll go so far as to dig up a Youtube of the egg song.

I look at parts as the equivalent of oil filters and annual heating system check ups. So I'm building up a spare parts inventory with the money saved by doing it myself. The last I looked a good hydronic heating system annual go over tops out at about $250. So after 4 years one could have a cool grand worth of parts (and if you shop around you might even be able to reduce your stoves electricity use in the process).

In other words it is all normal wear and tear just like on your jalopy.

The biggest difference is in how the stoves are physically constructed and that can have an impact on part life. But if the parts aren't cared for then even that doesn't matter.
 
j-takeman said:
I now listing parts is not provin much, But it could be an interesting show!

Seems bears kackling already! ;-) hehe

OK some one said popcorn where is it already!

There are alos variables with in the parts themselves. It depends on what the manu wants to spend. Some blowers wil only have bushings, While others will have bearings. Auger motors have different specs as well. You'll see intermitent and continues duty ratings.

But is it not the parts that people complain about the most????? Like the other post...Harman is crap because the combustion blower went....well its the same blower that is probably in a dozen other brands....

I know this thread will not do much of any good for the veterans of this site but the newbies that may just check in, without posting, looking up pellet stove information, I think this could be very valuable.
 
See somehow I knew it was going to be interesting.

Stove design, air flow and the biggie is the convection or how it transfers the heat from inside to the room. The heat exchanger to me is the most important part!
 
IHATEPROPANE said:
j-takeman said:
I now listing parts is not provin much, But it could be an interesting show!

Seems bears kackling already! ;-) hehe

OK some one said popcorn where is it already!

There are alos variables with in the parts themselves. It depends on what the manu wants to spend. Some blowers wil only have bushings, While others will have bearings. Auger motors have different specs as well. You'll see intermitent and continues duty ratings.

But is it not the parts that people complain about the most????? Like the other post...Harman is crap because the combustion blower went....well its the same blower that is probably in a dozen other brands....

I know this thread will not do much of any good for the veterans of this site but the newbies that may just check in, without posting, looking up pellet stove information, I think this could be very valuable.

Harman uses Dayton blowers. But the funny thing is they either have an A.O. Smith motor or a Fasco motor.
 
yep all those in mine too. just configured differently. snap discs are pretty generic i think. the gauge of the steel varies alot between stoves. my stove has heat exchangers on the sides as well as the top and an air filter on the room blower intake. two part burn pot that you can reach in and remove by simply lifting out for easy cleaning. things like this are what set it apart. otherwise its got the same guts. the controller is all together different.
 
j-takeman said:
See somehow I knew it was going to be interesting.

Stove design, air flow and the biggie is the convection or how it transfers the heat from inside to the room. The heat exchanger to me is the most important part!

Has there been any controlled environment independent tests that show one brand does this better than others?? I don't believe the numbers the manufacturers give for a second....I bet that you would see very close results if this was ever done...Unless they get a hold of some of the stoves that have been modified by memebers on this site...seems like you tinkerers (is that a word) might get more efficiancy than the stove makers could only dream of.
 
When the gov was first starting the rebate program. Many stove's were tested by the EPA. They had to be 75% efficient to qualify for the rebates. I believe they were tested by an independent lab. For a while the spec's were listed, But I don't seem many reports. Some still have the spec's on the certificates forms used for the rebates or listed in the specs at their web sites.

Not many, if any didn't qualify, But some shined with over 85% efficiency ratings. One made over 90%. This was not only heat exchanger, But also the exhaust pollutant's figured in.

Problem with solid fuel devices is you can't do multiple pass heat exchangers. Due to solids dropping out of the exhaust gases, A single pass seems to be the standard. While NG/Propane have multipass heat exchanges to extract more BTU's from the heated combustion air. This will result in higher overall efficiency ratings. Because there is minimal solids in the exhaust gases with the cleaner burning fuel makes it possible.

Some of the larger brained forum members should be able to add light to this. I don't know all the yadda yadda stuff, I just tried to keep it simple. Might be wrong for all I know! So use a little salt if needed!
 
smoke show said:
I dunno if this is gonna prove anything on my end.

I had a Motorola cellphone years back and I loved it, hell it was better then the damn smartphone I have now.

It never let me down, used it for alot of years.

Some vehicles have a Motorola module in it that has a very high failure rate(I fix them daily).

I'll just leave it at that. for now.

I had a Motorola i830, thing was a piece of junk.
 
j-takeman said:
Here is a newer list released jan 2012. Wood and pellet. Wish they would seperate them!

Hmm. Looks like somewhat of a joke-of-a-list to me ... most pellet stoves default to 78%, wood cat to 72%, and wood non-cat to 63%.

Also wonder if the testing protocol combines electrical efficiency into the total efficiency listed.

Now if only f this report included testing the EPA's own efficiency ;)



EDIT: agreed with Smokey - looks like it's emissions testing only.
 
There are a lot of stoves missing from those lists.

It also looks like that is an emission certification list.

Either that or my eyes are not yet working this morning.
 
What is in your stove? Who can say much about that and especially if or where they heat with oil, propane, or electricity?
I don't think most stove owners know what is in their stoves/furnace etc. Not like what most forum members do here. Some of my relatives followed me into the world of pellet burning, yet I know two of them who have the exact stove as me who have yet to take off and clean their blowers. (4 years ago) They did buy into the leaf blower cleaning. I personally don't know anyone who has given up. To my knowledge, not one of these three same stoves has required a service call or replacement parts.
My stove has been very good to us. It has tolerated my inquisitive and ignorant behaviors. I still get a charge when someone looks at my stove and says, "you heat your whole house with that?") We are warm, and admittedly I am enjoying the whole process.
 
I know I am beating a dead horse but,
My Harman Invincible which is ten plus years old, runs flawlessly
like everything else the older, not ancient models were probably built better
one combustion blower so far bushing motor, replaced with ball bearing motor
replacement was gleason avery, original could not read the tag
I use alot of these small motors for Halloween props and I can tell you
a high percentage of them do NOT work right out of the box
poor Q/C design, manufactruring, whatever, the end user suffers
 
ironpony said:
I know I am beating a dead horse but,
My Harman Invincible which is ten plus years old, runs flawlessly
like everything else the older, not ancient models were probably built better
one combustion blower so far bushing motor, replaced with ball bearing motor
replacement was gleason avery, original could not read the tag
I use alot of these small motors for Halloween props and I can tell you
a high percentage of them do NOT work right out of the box
poor Q/C design, manufactruring, whatever, the end user suffers


Sometimes it is helpful to beat a dead horse, perhaps it will wake up a sleeping Q/C department or two.

Oh and perhaps kick a accountant or two in the butt as a result.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.