Class A install opinion

BillsWS · Feb 10, 2012

After months of looking at it, measuring and thought, I think I am going to go through the back of my chase with a thimble and go outside with the class A instead of inside. A whole lot less work than going through two floors, two ceilings, losing closet space, redrywalling, etc...

If necessary I could enclose the chimney in a chase but if the draft is good like this I might leave it. Any opinions (for or against) or suggestions?

oldspark · Feb 10, 2012

Sounds like a plan, many people have the Class A pipe on the outside and report a good draft.

jeff_t · Feb 10, 2012

Looks to be plenty tall enough to draft well. Just keep in mind that the BK flue temps are already pretty cool. You might even have to watch for ice buildup at the top in cold weather.
I think bogydave has his outside, in AK.

Cueman · Feb 10, 2012

Is there any way you can avoid using the off-set piece? Are those direct vents for gas? It will look better if you go straight up from the Tee, but it looks like there is something up there your going around. If its not a functional vent or something, sheer it off, patch the masonry with Hydro cement, and run your class A vertical the whole run. I have this same set up (minus the offset) about 22ft of pipe outside and drafts perfectly. (8" Class A too)

Your right, its a lot more of a project keeping it inside. But get the idea of building a chase to cover the pipe out of your mind. Reason? The cost and time of doing that will put you over the cost and time of keeping the stack inside. Be proud of your stack, no need to cover it up! And the money is better well spent elsewhere.

Good luck with the project.

BillsWS · Feb 10, 2012

CRC said:
Is there any way you can avoid using the off-set piece? Are those direct vents for gas? It will look better if you go straight up from the Tee, but it looks like there is something up there your going around. If its not a functional vent or something, sheer it off, patch the masonry with Hydro cement, and run your class A vertical the whole run. I have this same set up (minus the offset) about 22ft of pipe outside and drafts perfectly. (8" Class A too)

Your right, its a lot more of a project keeping it inside. But get the idea of building a chase to cover the pipe out of your mind. Reason? The cost and time of doing that will put you over the cost and time of keeping the stack inside. Be proud of your stack, no need to cover it up! And the money is better well spent elsewhere.

Good luck with the project.

Thanks Oldspark and Jeff T. CRC, the vent is for the gas fireplace on the main floor. We will continue to use it (well, my wife does. If I had my way, there'd be another wood stove going in there). That's the reason for the jogg in the pipe. I'll be pulling the gas fireplace out of the basement and hope to use the vent opening for my OAK.

Jackfre · Feb 10, 2012

So the bump out simply houses the gas fireplaces, correct? I think doing more internal work is better than having the pipe on the outside. I just don't think you will like the look of the pipe on the existing hump. If I was going to put the pipe outside I would run it up along side the current bump-out where it would be shielded from the front of the house. This is a stove forum and we are pretty much all about it. The person you hope will want to buy your house may not share our sentiment. That said, who can sell a house today?

Cueman · Feb 11, 2012

Dont think he has room to get by the window.....not to mention that will change the pipe configuration from the inside, and stove placement.

Maybe run your stove for a season before the OAK install. Maybe you wont need it. Its another hole in the house, another place for cold air and leaks. Unless your tight as a drum, new green construction, might not need it. Can always add it later.

BillsWS · Feb 11, 2012

The house is very tight. Icynene insulation and we have a HVAC so I think the OAK is a good idea. The hole is already there. I am looking at this house to be my last but if something changes where I want to sell and move on, I could remove the class A and stick a free standing gas stove in place of the BK and sell it that way (unless by then the wood stove set up has more resale value).

firefighterjake · Feb 13, 2012

Due to my home's construction and the extensive work I would have had to do with an inside install I went out and up . . . straight up without an off-set.

Originally I was concerned about the loss of heat, potential draft issues and the look . . . I haven't really noticed any real loss of heat as the Jotul does a fine job of heating most of the house, draft has never been a problem except for early Fall and late Spring when many other folks have issues when the outside and inside temps are fairly close to each other and as for the looks . . .

I planned originally to install the Class A and then build a chase to make it look pretty . . . but after I had it installed I realized that a) due to its location the only place you would see the entire run of pipe was if you were standing directly on the side of the house which abuts a bunch of trees and my neighbor who could care less what my house looks like, b) the look of the metal kind of grew on me and c) I am basically pretty lazy when it comes to construction so I figured I could live with the Class A as it is . . . I would install it and see what you think after a year.

Defnitely put in a T-cap at the end . . . the ability to do bottom-up cleanings is very nice . . . and at the very least doing a top-down cleaning will be much easier.

BillsWS · Feb 13, 2012

Thank you Firefighterjake. The idea is growing on me as well. If there were ever a chimney fire, the Class A will be outside the house as well (2" beyond the brick on the chase). I have a tree line to that side of the house and no neighbor so I think it will be fine.

begreen · Feb 14, 2012

BillsWS said:
CRC said:

Is there any way you can avoid using the off-set piece? Are those direct vents for gas? It will look better if you go straight up from the Tee, but it looks like there is something up there your going around. If its not a functional vent or something, sheer it off, patch the masonry with Hydro cement, and run your class A vertical the whole run. I have this same set up (minus the offset) about 22ft of pipe outside and drafts perfectly. (8" Class A too)

Your right, its a lot more of a project keeping it inside. But get the idea of building a chase to cover the pipe out of your mind. Reason? The cost and time of doing that will put you over the cost and time of keeping the stack inside. Be proud of your stack, no need to cover it up! And the money is better well spent elsewhere.

Good luck with the project.

Click to expand...

Thanks Oldspark and Jeff T. CRC, the vent is for the gas fireplace on the main floor. We will continue to use it (well, my wife does. If I had my way, there'd be another wood stove going in there). That's the reason for the jogg in the pipe. I'll be pulling the gas fireplace out of the basement and hope to use the vent opening for my OAK.

Be sure that the brand of class A that's used allows an outdoor offset. Some don't. And note that the offset will be with 30 degree elbows. Also, will the thimble be at least 18" below the ceiling?

cahaak · Feb 14, 2012

Usually you need a wall support bracket at the bottom of the run for the outside and with the offset, you don't end up at 90 degrees to the support bracket, so not sure how that will work. If you have room in any way, inside would be much cleaner.

BillsWS · Feb 14, 2012

BeGreen said:
Be sure that the brand of class A that's used allows an outdoor offset. Some don't. And note that the offset will be with 30 degree elbows. Also, will the thimble be at least 18" below the ceiling?

Thanks BeGreen. I have to return the Menards class A for that reason. I am planning on venting off the back of the Progress Hybrid (most recent plan), going back 27 1/2 inches from the stove to the thimble with double black pipe (1/4" rise per foot). The black pipe will be inside the chase which is currently finished with drywall, insulated, etc... The ceiling in the chase is 8 ft. (drywalled/finished), the chase is 55" wide, 17 3/4 " deep. The opening in front of the chase (where the mantle is) will be 36" wide, 37" high. Distance to combustables from the black pipe will be 14" on the sides and is currently 12.5 from the top of the pipe. I could increase the distance above the horizontal double wall pipe to 20.5" if need be. I am considering creating a non-combustable ceiling that will angle toward the front so the warm air will spill out into the room or placing some vents at the top of the chase so any warm air that accumulates in the chase will vent into the room. Any ideas?

(third picture is the gas set up before removal)

begreen · Feb 14, 2012

My first concern here is clearance to combustibles (CTC). There are two wood 2x4 side supports that are going to be close to the stove. Do they meet clearance requirements?

Next, what is that pipe flange with the red plug in it going through? It also has specific CTC.

BillsWS · Feb 14, 2012

BeGreen said:
My first concern here is clearance to combustibles (CTC). There are two wood 2x4 side supports that are going to be close to the stove. Do they meet clearance requirements?

Next, what is that pipe flange with the red plug in it going through? It also has specific CTC.

The side supports are 2 x 6's and will be removed and new framing installed to the width of the mantle opening, 36" The stove will be 7" in front of the plane line of the drywall behind the mantle. The Progress rear CTC is 7" with the rear shield installed and double black pipe. The pipe flange will be removed, the framing enlarged for a new thimble. That back wall is 1/2" drywall, 2 x 6 framing 1/2" or 5/8" OSB sheathing, then brick exterior.

begreen · Feb 14, 2012

Got it. Is the plan then to have a class A thimble past the drywall?

BillsWS · Feb 14, 2012

BeGreen said:
Got it. Is the plan then to have a class A thimble past the drywall?

Yes, the new class A thimble will be installed in the back wall of the chase where the square black plate from the gas log goes through now. I will need to find out if the 12.5" to combustable above the black pipe (framing behind the top of the mantle not visible in the photos) has to be increased. Once I get all of the CTC resolved, then I will need to decide on either the slanted non combustable "ceiling" above the black pipe so the air moves out into the room through the mantle opening or not put that "ceiling" in and create some openings at the top of the chase (near the 8 ft. level) so that any heat that builds up in the chase vents into the room at the ceiling level. I suppose the vents near the ceiling could create some routes for good convection currents and maybe keep the chase warmer even when the stove is not in use.

begreen · Feb 14, 2012

CTC to the mantel or any above combustibles will be critical. That is the hottest area. Check the stove requirements carefully here. This looks like it might be an alcove installation as described. If so, here's what is in the Princess manual:

Residential alcove, roof exit, requires a minimum ceiling height of 76". Also required are side shields, rear
shield OR fan kit, and one of the listed, prefabricated chimney systems with matching double wall close
clearance connector shown on page 28. For both KEJ and PEJ, minimum alcove width-is 47". Maximum
alcove depth is 48". Minimum distance from bottom of either stove model, to ceiling of alcove, is 76". Installation
instructions begin on page 24.

BillsWS · Feb 14, 2012

BeGreen said:
CTC to the mantel or any above combustibles will be critical. That is the hottest area. Check the stove requirements carefully here. This looks like it might be an alcove installation as described. If so, here's what is in the Princess manual...

Thanks for helping me think this through BeGreen. I do have the BK Princess manual. We are hoping that we can put a Woodstock Progress Hybrid in this location and keep the Princess for the garage. The Progress won't go into our chase due to the side clearances and the side load door. I think I will be ok with this plan fpr the Progress and venting the chase at the top. I will be pulling a permit for this project so I can get some feedback from the inspector too. We didn't want to give up the mantle from the gas fireplace and when I measured the height of the vent pipe for the gas set up and found it to be the same as a Progress, we saw the potential to keep the mantle and install a Progress here.

BillsWS · Feb 14, 2012

cahaak said:
Usually you need a wall support bracket at the bottom of the run for the outside and with the offset, you don't end up at 90 degrees to the support bracket, so not sure how that will work. If you have room in any way, inside would be much cleaner.

Thanks cahaak. I have found certain brands do allow for the offset outside and have provisions for support. My project for today is to get pricing for those chimney components.

begreen · Feb 14, 2012

BillsWS said:
BeGreen said:

CTC to the mantel or any above combustibles will be critical. That is the hottest area. Check the stove requirements carefully here. This looks like it might be an alcove installation as described. If so, here's what is in the Princess manual...

Click to expand...

Thanks for helping me think this through BeGreen. I do have the BK Princess manual. We are hoping that we can put a Woodstock Progress Hybrid in this location and keep the Princess for the garage. The Progress won't go into our chase due to the side clearances and the side load door. I think I will be ok with this plan fpr the Progress and venting the chase at the top. I will be pulling a permit for this project so I can get some feedback from the inspector too. We didn't want to give up the mantle from the gas fireplace and when I measured the height of the vent pipe for the gas set up and found it to be the same as a Progress, we saw the potential to keep the mantle and install a Progress here.

If the stove is completely outside of the chase then it may be ok. If not, I don't think so. I'm skeptical about the venting at the top either passing muster or being safe if there are combustibles nearby. I would submit a top, side and front elevation drawing of the proposed installation to Woodstock for approval. That will help with the inspection. Post it here if you want a look see.

BillsWS · Feb 14, 2012

BeGreen said:
BillsWS said:

BeGreen said:

CTC to the mantel or any above combustibles will be critical. That is the hottest area. Check the stove requirements carefully here. This looks like it might be an alcove installation as described. If so, here's what is in the Princess manual...

Click to expand...

Thanks for helping me think this through BeGreen. I do have the BK Princess manual. We are hoping that we can put a Woodstock Progress Hybrid in this location and keep the Princess for the garage. The Progress won't go into our chase due to the side clearances and the side load door. I think I will be ok with this plan fpr the Progress and venting the chase at the top. I will be pulling a permit for this project so I can get some feedback from the inspector too. We didn't want to give up the mantle from the gas fireplace and when I measured the height of the vent pipe for the gas set up and found it to be the same as a Progress, we saw the potential to keep the mantle and install a Progress here.

Click to expand...

If the stove is completely outside of the chase then it may be ok. If not, I don't think so. I'm skeptical about the venting at the top either passing muster or being safe if there are combustibles nearby. I would submit a top, side and front elevation drawing of the proposed installation to Woodstock for approval. That will help with the inspection. Post it here if you want a look see.

Good idea. The stove will be completely out of the chase, sitting out in the room, the rear of the stove beyond the wall by 7"

BlankBlankBlank · Feb 15, 2012

I'm not exactly sure where you're at with this project. By your post, you're in Michigan. It gets cold up there. I'm in Wisconsin to the south and it gets cold here. Point is this: when I bought my house there was a class A chimney on the outside of the back of the house. In the house there were various signs that the chimney had draft issues. There was no stove there when I got the house. The thimble had been sealed off. I opened it to check it out. It back drafted terribly. I can only imagine the cords of wood needed to keep that class A chimney warm enough to draft.

My new class A installed inside the house and up through it drafts excellent in the middle of winter without any fire burning in the stove. I wouldn't attempt to go any other way. Some here say it's fine and that so and so has got it working. I just wouldn't do it. The chimney, hearth, stove, and time is just too darn expensive to get 7/8 into the project and realize it's going to function poorly.

My 2 cents.

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