I have been reading on here and changed my mind about 100 times. First I wanted a regular OWB but became concerned of the amount of wood I will go through. Now I am looking at putting an indoor gasser in my 12x12 garden shed that is 130' from the house. My home is 1 1/5 story with finished basement for total of 3000 sq ft. It was built in 2002 but currenlty I go through about 1200 gallons of propane per heating season because of all the floor to ceiling windows and cathedral ceilings. I have about 3 cords of wood seasoning as we speak. I am a little concerned about the burn times since I travel about 12 nights a month and I am sometimes gone for 3 nights at a time. My wife works 12 hour shifts 1-2 nights a week. I keep reading about storage but dont see anywhere I could put it. I have a utility room in my basement with some extra room in it but the only access is through a 32" door. No extra room in the garden shed. I am interesed in a Tarm or EKO 40 but it looks like it wouldn't even burn all day while I am in town at work 9 hrs. What are my options?
So many boiler choices
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Singed Eyebrows
Minister of Fire
Wood burning isn't for everyone. Installing a gasification boiler system is an expensive undertaking. I hesitate to mention pellet boiler because of pellet cost, however this may be your best bet, Randyhartkem said:
Gasifier
Minister of Fire
Wood burning isn’t for everyone. Installing a gasification boiler system is an expensive undertaking. I hesitate to mention pellet boiler because of pellet cost, however this may be your best bet, Randy
Good point Randy.
Hartkem, I came close to going with a pellet boiler myself. The convenience of them would be nice. But, I am home more than you are. My longest stretch away from the fire are 10 hour work days. So eleven hours total. The price of pellets was still better than oil, (I don't have N.G. on my road, and don't care.) but I get my wood for free, as long as I get my a#@ in the woods and cut it. :lol: But heating with wood is a lot of work. I enjoy it personally. Keeps you in shape, being outside is always good for the soul. I get the wife and kids involved in moving and stacking twice a year. But make no mistake about it. Wood is a lot of work and time. I really like not being tied to the oil man though! No more oil! Couldn't be happier. There are a lot of nice boilers out there. Wood and pellet. Keep asking questions here. A lot of good guys with some good knowledge. They will guide you through it. Or, not through it, if it is not right for you.
Good point Randy.
Hartkem, I came close to going with a pellet boiler myself. The convenience of them would be nice. But, I am home more than you are. My longest stretch away from the fire are 10 hour work days. So eleven hours total. The price of pellets was still better than oil, (I don't have N.G. on my road, and don't care.) but I get my wood for free, as long as I get my a#@ in the woods and cut it. :lol: But heating with wood is a lot of work. I enjoy it personally. Keeps you in shape, being outside is always good for the soul. I get the wife and kids involved in moving and stacking twice a year. But make no mistake about it. Wood is a lot of work and time. I really like not being tied to the oil man though! No more oil! Couldn't be happier. There are a lot of nice boilers out there. Wood and pellet. Keep asking questions here. A lot of good guys with some good knowledge. They will guide you through it. Or, not through it, if it is not right for you.
I would really like to stick with wood. I know I might have a few nights here and there that the propane furnace kicks in but even if I can reduce my heat bill by half it would be worth it. Im aware of how much work it is because my parents have heated with wood for over 30 years. I have no way to install the boiler in the basement because of I don't have a flue or any space to incorporate one without major changes. I really like the idea of the eko 40 in my garden shed. I found on Tarms website vertical tanks that will fit through my basement door. They are pressurized 220 gal and would easily fit in my basement. If I installed two of them or maybe even three if they don't break the bank I could have a decent amount of storage. Im willing to make the finacial leap to install this correctly. I just want something that will actual pay back over time and look somewhat attractive. I don't want a 1000 gallon propane tank in the middle of my finished basment and the part that is unfinshed only has a standard door opening.
Check out the heat banks from American solar technics
http://www.americansolartechnics.com/
They come in pieces that will fit through any door.
http://www.americansolartechnics.com/
They come in pieces that will fit through any door.
Gasifier
Minister of Fire
hartkem said:
Okay. Well. At 3.50/gallon for propane, times 1200 gallons, that is a lot of bean dip! $4200.00 I would say you are on the right track buying a Gasification boiler and putting storage with it. From what I have read on this site, I would not hesitate to buy a HS Tarm or an EKO. Both sound like they are good boilers. I was down to an HS Tarm, because their is a dealer about 10 miles or so from me. Or a Wood Gun. I chose the Wood Gun because it had the 304 Stainless Steel option and it had a larger water capacity and a larger burn chamber. However. I am not trying to steer you away from an HS Tarm or an EKO. The larger burn chamber, longer burn time, can be solved with a larger amount of well insulated storage. All depends what you want. You were talking about not heating long enough to get you through 9 hours while you were at work. With the right amount of storage you could burn all evening and all night while you are home. Let the fire go out when it is out of wood, and have plenty of heat to get you through the rest of the day until you get home.
The heat banks would easily fit in my basement. I also think two 250 gallon propane tanks on end would fit. I have forced air heat so will this work just as good as having cast iron registers or hot water baseboard heat?
Gasifier
Minister of Fire
hartkem said:
I am pretty sure the heat banks are non pressurized. Which will work if that is what you want. Lots of guys use non pressurized. I think they are expensive though. Depends how much you want to spend. I would also think you would want more than 500 gallons of storage if you want to go for a long time with your storage bank. Being able to burn your fire flat out until your wood is gone and store that energy will get you better efficiency at least. Then you will be able to go for a longer time between fires. That is convenient. I use a buffer tank of 400 gallons. Works well for me. But, I think I would go with three times that much if I could afford it. Just some things for you to think about. Hopefully someone will chime in about the forced air heat.
James Ascherl
Member
burn baby 2010 said:
Really nice setup there. What type of modification is need to use the propane tanks? Do you have to drill and weld threaded bungs on them? I thought about (2) 250 gallon tanks set on end if I could find them used.
James Ascherl
Member
Yeah, I drilled a 2-1/2" hole on each end (one low and one high) with a standard hole saw and drill. Just use plenty of oil. I then welded 2" black pipe nipples on the ends. I only had 8' of clearance to stack them, so I was forced to stack them on their side with the feet against the back wall, hence the wood cradles that I made. They will be eventually secured with 4x4 anchored into the concrete and the rafters which will double as the framework for my insulation box.
The guy I bought them from struggled to get me three of these bastard sized tanks, but had many of the vertical 250 gallon. The only problem is that he is out of the tank business.
The guy I bought them from struggled to get me three of these bastard sized tanks, but had many of the vertical 250 gallon. The only problem is that he is out of the tank business.
Gasifier
Minister of Fire
That's a nice set up you have there b.b. 2010. That is the first time I have seen three tanks that size set up like that. A nice way to get that much storage into a basement. Are you on-line with the system yet? How are you planning on insulating them?
James Ascherl
Member
I do plan on insulating them after they are air tested and I have the bugs out of my system. I am not up and running yet (A sore subject with my wife :red: ). I am done with all my plumbing, but am just beginning the electrical which I am not very well versed at. As I mentioned, I will be installing 4x4 vertical supports, and packing insulation in between. I was able to drive a small fork lift into my basement to put the top tank on.
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velvetfoot
Minister of Fire
I am waffling on what to get, if anything as well, only I've got the oil tank in the basement to contend with as well.
Even with a pellet boiler that you could (potentially) vent out the side of the house, you still have to locate the vent properly (away from windows, etc), and, for more automatic use, a storage hopper which takes up the room that the storage tanks would take up, since I imagine you wouldn't need storage with a pellet boiler. I too have been burning wood in an insert and while more work, even with buying the logs, it saves money over pellets, plus it'd be nice to stick with the same fuel source.
I might use your idea of a wood gassifier in a garden shed, maybe with some attached covered wood storage. Less mess and floor space, no expensive vent system, heat loss from storage would be inside bldg envelope, shed could be well insulated, less movement of wood required. Hmmm, maybe it could heat green house, to "sell" the whole idea to the other potential investor, lol.
Even with a pellet boiler that you could (potentially) vent out the side of the house, you still have to locate the vent properly (away from windows, etc), and, for more automatic use, a storage hopper which takes up the room that the storage tanks would take up, since I imagine you wouldn't need storage with a pellet boiler. I too have been burning wood in an insert and while more work, even with buying the logs, it saves money over pellets, plus it'd be nice to stick with the same fuel source.
I might use your idea of a wood gassifier in a garden shed, maybe with some attached covered wood storage. Less mess and floor space, no expensive vent system, heat loss from storage would be inside bldg envelope, shed could be well insulated, less movement of wood required. Hmmm, maybe it could heat green house, to "sell" the whole idea to the other potential investor, lol.
While storage is a nice goal o shoot for, I wouldn't say that you HAVE to have storage just because of your extended times away from home. If your fossil back up comes on 50% - and I doubt that would be the case - you're still cutting your fossil usage in half. The money you save will pay for your storage in a couple of years.
I'm almost done installing a pellet boiler in my pole barn, which is about 100 feet from my house. I had some of the same issues--no room in the house, no room in the subbasement/utility room and I travel so I needed something the wife could load while I'm away. I have an oil boiler/hot water baseboard and also heat pumps in a very hard to heat home due to large rooms, high cathedral ceilings. No gas service to the house. Propane for my fireplace was $3.99/gal when I filled in August.
I looked at a lot of options. The pellet boiler is great. Ran insulated line over to the house and tied in to the oil boiler. Just flip a switch to go back and forth. I think the pellet boiler holds enough to last a few days. Might install an additional hopper that will hold enough for a few weeks. I've only done a test fire and found I undersized the pump that circulates water from the barn to the house. Hope to borrow a larger pump today and test tonight. Once I confirm it works the install is over and I'll figure out how to post pics and more details.
I looked at a lot of options. The pellet boiler is great. Ran insulated line over to the house and tied in to the oil boiler. Just flip a switch to go back and forth. I think the pellet boiler holds enough to last a few days. Might install an additional hopper that will hold enough for a few weeks. I've only done a test fire and found I undersized the pump that circulates water from the barn to the house. Hope to borrow a larger pump today and test tonight. Once I confirm it works the install is over and I'll figure out how to post pics and more details.
I am going to order an EKO 40 in the next month or so from New horizons. I will install this unit in my garden shed and use thermopex underground and through my basement wall about 30" below grade. I plan to terminate the thermopex about 1-2 feet after it goes through my basement wall and then switch to copper. I am not a plumber but don't have any problems soldering pipe. Since I will use a heat exchanger in my forced heating plenum can I just hook this up directly to the Heat exhanger if I am not using storage. Does the EKO have its own circuilating pump or would I install that in the basement? In a setup like this how is the pressure in the system controlled? I might be installing storage right away but it depends if I can find two 250 gallon propane tanks to set up vertically. If I install storage do I always have to have it up to temperature before I can get heat? My storage may cool down when I am traveling and the propane system takes over if my wife can't keep the system going.
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