from fireview to progress

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pro5oh

Member
Aug 19, 2008
150
downeast Maine
Been using my new progress for a few weeks now. I like the stove but wondering if I have an air leak, I cant shut the stove down enough to smother out the flames. It always seems to be burning to much for zero inlet air. My fireview could be shut right down and chug along. I have checked the ash pan seating and the door gasket. The dampner rod feels a bit cheap, I'm wondering if the inlet flaps are fully closed, I'll look tonight. Also seem to be smelling smoke at times.
 
From what the folks at woodstock told me when you close the air completely, the air is not completely closed. You do reduce the amount of air coming in to the secondaries and such, but can't completely close it off.

Also, some folks with a smoke smell problem have contacted woodstock and gotten it taken care of with a new door gasket.

pen
 
Your stove should have the new gasket. I was told mine had it and I picked it up in January, and so far no smoke smell. How early are you closing it down? Once the secondaries get going, it is hard to stop them.
 
Are you shutting your air all the way to 0? Try not shutting it down quite so far, say to 1/16" OR 1/8" from bottom. See if that helps the smoke smell. It does with mine. I just don't operate at 0. I still get some smell, but not as much. I still have to change my gasket, but am waiting for better weather to do it in.
 
HollowHill said:
Are you shutting your air all the way to 0? Try not shutting it down quite so far, say to 1/16" OR 1/8" from bottom. See if that helps the smoke smell. It does with mine. I just don't operate at 0. I still get some smell, but not as much. I still have to change my gasket, but am waiting for better weather to do it in.

I noticed the cat definitely stalls when the air is set to zero, and I got a smoke smell for the first time in the house.


This weekend, I tried engaging at 250 stovetop with zero draft setting (something I did successfully many times when the stove was new).This time, the top slowly climbed to 300F in about 30 minutes, at which time I noticed a large dark trail of smoke outside the windows below the chimney. The cat was definitely stalled. I opened the air just a tiny,tiny nudge, and the cat took off, raising the stovetop quickly to 400F, now with a totally INVISIBLE smoke trail.

I then damped back to zero air setting, and within 60 seconds the invisible smoke trail turned into black clouds again. This cat definitely needs more air to light off and burn clean than it did 2 months ago.

It seems that the flu temperature is just as important as the stovetop temp to get lightoff. I can get 250F stovetop with a flue at 200, no lightoff. Wait for 300F flue, good light off (as long as the damper is not set to zero).

I wish I had more daylight hours to figure it out. Lately we only need 1 or 2 loads a day max to keep the house warm, not enough to run consistent tests.
 
Greybeard said:
Been using my new progress for a few weeks now. I like the stove but wondering if I have an air leak, I cant shut the stove down enough to smother out the flames. It always seems to be burning to much for zero inlet air. My fireview could be shut right down and chug along. I have checked the ash pan seating and the door gasket. The dampner rod feels a bit cheap, I'm wondering if the inlet flaps are fully closed, I'll look tonight. Also seem to be smelling smoke at times.

That's the first thing I noticed when I had my first Progress fire. I called WS, and they told me it was normal. There is always some primary air entering from a small hole in front, and the secondary plates always let in some air. I think we have to retrain ourselves when moving from the FV to the Progress, they definitely behave differently, but it makes sense the hybrid would act different from a pure cat stove.
 
I also had trouble keeping my PH from going into secondary burn mode really quickly, before I got a chance to engage cat. Woodstock suggested either getting a damper installed in the stovepipe or trying to engage cat by loading the stove with hot ash in the bed, closing everything down immediately, and waiting. I did the latter, and it worked. After 1/2 hr to 45 min got a cat burn going. Once my wood is down to moderate amount of coals, I rake coals to front ,open damper gradually (first 1/4, the 1/2 then full) to burn coals hotter/more quickly down to ash. Had no smoke smell during any of this.
Twice in the early stages of owning the stove, starting top down fires with knotted newspaper, I got an incinerating whoosh as I closed the loading door, with very significant shaking of the stove pipe (2nd time worse than first), so no longer start top down fires with newspaper--use white birch bark.
Three weeks or so into burning with the PH, started to smell smoke. Over the next two days stove noticably became harder to get into cat mode, then just stopped going into cat at all, was not burning well at all..window, which had been crystal clear, became smudged. So cooled the stove, checked iconal screen, completely blocked. Took it out and cleaned it. Opened top, cat looked fine, from Fireview experience expected it to be fine. I was shocked..entire distal surface completely covered with very fine gray ash. Gently knocked cat upside down on newspaper, brushed all sides with natural bristle sash brush, replaced, brushed, vacuumed inside of top of stove (ash and soot there) put everything back together, cleaned ash out of firebox, and loaded stove about 75% full---of 16 " wood,---lit fire, bypass open, damper fully open. Fire lit very quickly, gradually reduced damper to 1/4. After ten flue temp as measured on outside of excel double wall pipe about a foot above stovetop, which I have found to have readings consistently 1/2 of stovetop temp whenever stove is in a steady burn, was 130 -150 (I don't now recall exactly where in that range), closed the bypass to engage cat, then reduced damper to about 1/8 for a few minutes, then completely closed it. Got a 16 hour cat burn with plenty of coals (1/2 gallon to 1 gallon, again don't remember exactly) but mostly white-gray ash. No smoke smell. Since then have found this method works for me in my setting. Stove cruises along at about 380-420 degrees. To get it hotter, I open the damper a bit. If it is really cold out and I open the damper a bit more again I get a hot secondary burn. But as long as I keep the stove from going into secondary burn at the beginning, which I do by engaging according to flue temp, I don't have a problem with secondaries taking over when I don't want them to do so. On a reload stove is frequently still up ~ 300, and the flue ~ 150. The wood ignites immediately...before the door is closed often...and I have trouble making myself wait the ten minutes I should before closing the damper all the way and engaging cat...I do start shutting the damper immediately in this setting, to 1/2 then on down to 1/4, 1/8 engage cat, close completely. The fire usually dies pretty quickly and the cat takes over with cat flames just like in the Fireview, but a bit more spectacular. Sometimes stove goes completely black but as long as stovetop temp rises I don't worry. Occasionally if I am too anxious to engage cat, and close the bypass too soon, it doesn't seem to engage, but if I open damper to 1/8 for just a few minutes, it engages. Then I close the damper completely. Almost always burn (this winter) with the damper closed, unless it is raining. By raking coals toward end of burn I get pretty consistent 12 hour cat burns, which is more convenient for me than 16 hour burns, which are easy to achieve by NOT raking the coals and letting the stove cool down to about 225-250.
I haven't had a smoke smell since cleaning the stove. I'm sure mine was the result of clogged system resulting in poor burn and smouldering. I have a theory that whooshes suctioned fly ash up into the working parts of the stove & blocked everything. I definitely notice that with my draft ,if I have the damper open much, fly ash is lifted up and flies around in my firebox. So far, a few of the squares in my iconal screen have fly ash covering them, but most are fine and I have not had further problems with burning or smoke smell. Trying to avoid situations which make the ash fly. Seem to burn at cooler temperatures than lots of people which may make a difference in the amount the cat expands and contracts and may result is less problem with leakage of smoke around the cat. (That was not an issue with ceramic cat.) Keep a fire going 24/7 except when away for an extended period. I heard somewhere that getting the cats cold and starting them again repeatedly is hard on the SS cats. Don't know if that is so, but with this mild winter I wonder if some people light a fire once a day and let the thing go out with the PH because PH heats the house so well. If any one does that, what has your experience been with the cat?
In summary, if I go by flue temp not exceeding 150 on excel double wall pipe as guide to engage cat from a cold start,and about ten minutes burn time with slightly charred wood as a guide to engage cat in a hot stove, I engage cat successfully within ten minutes and achieve a long cat burn with damper completely closed. Really mild out (28F or higher) and wet out, then I may need to open damper 1/8 inch for this burn. To achieve hotter burn than 380-420, again, open the damper about 1/8". To move to hot stove box on a really cold day I open the damper a bit more and get the secondaries going.
 
Also, as mentioned in another post, be sure the draft is closing all the way. Mine has a spot just before it is closed all the way that you have to push a little harder to get through. I think it is hanging up on the rear heat shield but it hasn't bothered me enough to really check it out. 9:00 is all closed, 12:00 is full open
 
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