Which gassifiers have replacable refractories

hartkem · Feb 21, 2012

I thought I was sold on the EKO 40 but have read a few posts about nozzle erosion and I dont see anywhere about being able to replace the nozzle / upper chamber concrete. I found a post where a member lined the nozzle with firebrick. Seems to me that nozzle erosion could be a potential issue in the future if the part is not replaceable.

I also really like the econoburn 150 but I am having a lot of issues getting over the $8100 price that I was quoted directly from the manufacturer. That is a whopping $2600 more than the EKO. I am also not sure if the upper chamber / nozzle concrete is replaceable on the econoburn. Are there any boilers that this part is replaceable on? Is it not a wear item?

711mhw · Feb 21, 2012

I know that you can replace them in my Wood Gun. I really think that this would be true for all of them as I can't see them welding up all the steel around the refractorie. Cost and ease of installation might be a good thing to compare between the diff. units, for when the time comes.

Clarkbug · Feb 21, 2012

I think the refractory is replaceable on every boiler, its just how its done that varies.

Some ship as bricks or blocks that are replaced, while others use a "poured in place" refractory cement.

The Tarm Solo that I looked at had replaceable blocks, as does my Varmebaronen. Thats the extent of my refractory knowledge.

mr.fixit · Feb 21, 2012

I'm the one that did the firebrick overlay,but one thing to keep in mind is the fact that I use approx. 10 to 11 full cords per heating season.
So over the first two seasons 20+ cords which may be alot more than someone with less heat load.
More wood thru the boiler = more nozzle wear.

The nozzle did look to me like is is cast in place so it probably is a tough job to replace it, I don't know for sure.

The eko is a nice boiler otherwise and I would buy another one.

The only thing I would do differently is to put the firebrick overlay in when the boiler was new.

hobbyheater · Feb 21, 2012

hartkem said:
I thought I was sold on the EKO 40 but have read a few posts about nozzle erosion and I dont see anywhere about being able to replace the nozzle / upper chamber concrete. I found a post where a member lined the nozzle with firebrick. Seems to me that nozzle erosion could be a potential issue in the future if the part is not replaceable.

I also really like the econoburn 150 but I am having a lot of issues getting over the $8100 price that I was quoted directly from the manufacturer. That is a whopping $2600 more than the EKO. I am also not sure if the upper chamber / nozzle concrete is replaceable on the econoburn. Are there any boilers that this part is replaceable on? Is it not a wear item?

The refractory is replaceable on most of all the units that I have seen. Having owned a boiler with a large refractory component, the ease and the expense of replacement are important. Another thing to consider is, if the company that makes your boiler is no longer around, how difficult will it be to make replacement refractory parts yourself?

I have attached some pictures of a boiler that has a simple system of refractory and brick. If need be, it would not be overly difficult to make the parts yourself.

I have also attached the pictures of a repair to the refractory on my own boiler. The refractory cement needed to completely replace the refractory on this boiler, would be in the neighbourhood of $ 1,600.00

goosegunner · Feb 21, 2012

The nozzle in the Econoburn is a replaceable part. It is separate from the main refractory. I believe the EKO is the same.

gg

hartkem · Feb 21, 2012

mr.fixit said:
I'm the one that did the firebrick overlay,but one thing to keep in mind is the fact that I use approx. 10 to 11 full cords per heating season.
So over the first two seasons 20+ cords which may be alot more than someone with less heat load.
More wood thru the boiler = more nozzle wear.

The nozzle did look to me like is is cast in place so it probably is a tough job to replace it, I don't know for sure.

The eko is a nice boiler otherwise and I would buy another one.

The only thing I would do differently is to put the firebrick overlay in when the boiler was new.

11 cords a year is a lot but I would hope to get 10-15 years from the boiler at a minimum. Formed in place is a little concerning since in my mind that is a make your own when the time comes. Maybe installing the brick overlay when new is the ticket. I am going to call econoburn tomorrow and ask about their refractories. I know there are a lot of ECOs out their so It might not be an issue. My dad has an old boiler of an unknown brand that he has been using for 25 years and keeps telling me that the key to longevity is keeping the firebrick in good shape so this is kinda ingrained in my mind.

bpirger · Feb 21, 2012

When I was looking, the econoburn's seemed to have a poured in place refractory. I assume sooner or later this will break and will require replacing. Does one have to pour in place a new refractory, or is this something that can be installed as a piece? When I asked my local dealer, he said he'd get back to me....never did. I bought a Garn. It has refractor "cylinders" that can be slid into place inside the combustion chamber. Otherwise, in the wood chamber, there's just fire brick. while I haven't done it, I believe it will be trivial to do so.

hobbyheater · Feb 21, 2012

I have a general question for the owners of the down drafting gasifiers. Is there anyway you could heat your refractory up more slowly when first lighting your fire?

On starting a fire in the old Jetstream, it can be operated on just the draft inducer to give the refractory more time to warm up gradually before going to full gasification mode. This is accomplished by just leaving the loading door open. Full gasification takes place when the loading door is shut, injectiing pre-heated combustion air under pressure into the burn chamber.

Over the many years of operating this boiler, refractory damage can be evident after rapid changes in the burn chamber temperatures.

This boiler operates a little differently than the modern Gassier so I will attach a side profile picture.

This is a chart for the different temperatures of ceramic by color and I'm assuming it would be close for refractory.

http://www.ceramicartdaily.net/PMI/KilnFiringChart.pdf

Picture the end of a burn.

woodsmaster · Feb 21, 2012

I Know that the nozzle is replacable in the biomass 60 as is the rest of the refractory. The nozzle is $98.00. The rest of the refractory would probably be around $350 - $450 more and comes in multiple pieces most of which look like they would be hard to cast yourself. So far after about 16 full cord burnt and the nozzle has some wear on it and the rest allmost still looks new. Don't Know how much of a job it is to change. I plan on doing an overlay like Mr. Fixit did this summer.

mikefrommaine · Feb 21, 2012

woodsmaster said:
I Know that the nozzle is replacable in the biomass 60 as is the rest of the refractory. The nozzle is $98.00. The rest of the refractory would probably be around $350 - $450 more and comes in multiple pieces most of which look like they would be hard to cast yourself. So far after about 16 full cord burnt and the nozzle has some wear on it and the rest allmost still looks new. Don't Know how much of a job it is to change. I plan on doing an overlay like Mr. Fixit did this summer.

That price seems reasonable.

I hear the Effecta boiler 35kw system w/1000 gallon storage has a very esxpensive to replace nozzle system. Not sure about others though.

mikefrommaine · Feb 21, 2012

hobbyheater said:
hartkem said:

I thought I was sold on the EKO 40 but have read a few posts about nozzle erosion and I dont see anywhere about being able to replace the nozzle / upper chamber concrete. I found a post where a member lined the nozzle with firebrick. Seems to me that nozzle erosion could be a potential issue in the future if the part is not replaceable.

I also really like the econoburn 150 but I am having a lot of issues getting over the $8100 price that I was quoted directly from the manufacturer. That is a whopping $2600 more than the EKO. I am also not sure if the upper chamber / nozzle concrete is replaceable on the econoburn. Are there any boilers that this part is replaceable on? Is it not a wear item?

Click to expand...

The refractory is replaceable on most of all the units that I have seen. Having owned a boiler with a large refractory component, the ease and the expense of replacement are important. Another thing to consider is, if the company that makes your boiler is no longer around, how difficult will it be to make replacement refractory parts yourself?

I have attached some pictures of a boiler that has a simple system of refractory and brick. If need be, it would not be overly difficult to make the parts yourself.

I have also attached the pictures of a repair to the refractory on my own boiler. The refractory cement needed to completely replace the refractory on this boiler, would be in the neighbourhood of $ 1,600.00

How many years did you get out of the jetsream refractory?

woodsmaster · Feb 21, 2012

mikefrommaine said:
woodsmaster said:

I Know that the nozzle is replacable in the biomass 60 as is the rest of the refractory. The nozzle is $98.00. The rest of the refractory would probably be around $350 - $450 more and comes in multiple pieces most of which look like they would be hard to cast yourself. So far after about 16 full cord burnt and the nozzle has some wear on it and the rest allmost still looks new. Don't Know how much of a job it is to change. I plan on doing an overlay like Mr. Fixit did this summer.

Click to expand...

That price seems reasonable.

I hear the Effecta boiler 35kw system w/1000 gallon storage has a very esxpensive to replace nozzle system. Not sure about others though.

I never actually added up the price of all the pieces so mayby I'm off ?

hobbyheater · Feb 21, 2012

mikefrommaine said:
How many years did you get out of the jetsream refractory?

The repair pictured was done at 27 years and will likely give another 5-10 years of service .

mikefrommaine · Feb 21, 2012

woodsmaster said:
mikefrommaine said:

woodsmaster said:

I Know that the nozzle is replacable in the biomass 60 as is the rest of the refractory. The nozzle is $98.00. The rest of the refractory would probably be around $350 - $450 more and comes in multiple pieces most of which look like they would be hard to cast yourself. So far after about 16 full cord burnt and the nozzle has some wear on it and the rest allmost still looks new. Don't Know how much of a job it is to change. I plan on doing an overlay like Mr. Fixit did this summer.

Click to expand...

That price seems reasonable.

I hear the Effecta boiler 35kw system w/1000 gallon storage has a very esxpensive to replace nozzle system. Not sure about others though.

Click to expand...

I never actually added up the price of all the pieces so mayby I'm off ?

I haven't add all the pieces up yet either. But I plan to order at least the nozzle soon since it seems prices on everything a going up.
It is nice that new horizons lists the price for parts right on their website.

I know on the biomass the nozzle is a simple lift out and replace with new job. There is a rope gasket that you have to line up Before you drop the new one in. The only thing you have to pay attention to is that the nozzle has a front and back to it. The lower refractory pieces just slide in and out. I took mine apart before the first fire so I would know how to do it when the time comes without having to deal with the dirt and mess.

goosegunner · Feb 21, 2012

As far as I can tell the Econoburn Nozzle is a different material than the main refractory. The nozzle looks like it was set in place with mortar.

The nozzle is material is more coarse than the smooth very hard and smooth cast refractory.

gg

maineDIY · Feb 21, 2012

[I have also attached the pictures of a repair to the refractory on my own boiler. The refractory cement needed to completely replace the refractory on this boiler, would be in the neighbourhood of $ 1,600.00[/quote]

I was curious as to how much your refractory parts weighed. Online prices of castable refractory cement looks like 55 lb bag for $111 includes shipping. $1600 would buy 14 1/2 bags dry weight 792 lbs. Is that about right? I wasn't aware that the cement parts in my stove weighed that much. They say that 86 lbs will make one cubic foot of cement. Is there better than 9 cubic feet of cement in these things?
GG

hobbyheater · Feb 21, 2012

mainedyi said:
I was curious as to how much your refractory parts weighed. Online prices of castable refractory cement looks like 55 lb bag for $111 includes shipping. $1600 would buy 14 1/2 bags dry weight 792 lbs. Is that about right? I wasn't aware that the cement parts in my stove weighed that much. They say that 86 lbs will make one cubic foot of cement. Is there better than 9 cubic feet of cement in these things?
GG

The refractory liner weighs about 850 lbs . http://www.budgetcastingsupply.com/Castable_Refractory_Kast-0-Lite-26-LI.php

Pictured the refractory liner .

huffdawg · Feb 21, 2012

hobbyheater said:
I have a general question for the owners of the down drafting gasifiers. Is there anyway you could heat your refractory up more slowly when first lighting your fire?

On starting a fire in the old Jetstream, it can be operated on just the draft inducer to give the refractory more time to warm up gradually before going to full gasification mode. This is accomplished by just leaving the loading door open. Full gasification takes place when the loading door is shut, injectiing pre-heated combustion air under pressure into the burn chamber.

Over the many years of operating this boiler, refractory damage can be evident after rapid changes in the burn chamber temperatures.

This boiler operates a little differently than the modern Gassier so I will attach a side profile picture.

This is a chart for the different temperatures of ceramic by color and I'm assuming it would be close for refractory.

http://www.ceramicartdaily.net/PMI/KilnFiringChart.pdf

Picture the end of a burn.

Yes , by keeping the secondary door open slightly with the bypass damper open and of course not turning the fan on.

Vinced · Feb 21, 2012

hobbyheater said:
mainedyi said:

I was curious as to how much your refractory parts weighed. Online prices of castable refractory cement looks like 55 lb bag for $111 includes shipping. $1600 would buy 14 1/2 bags dry weight 792 lbs. Is that about right? I wasn't aware that the cement parts in my stove weighed that much. They say that 86 lbs will make one cubic foot of cement. Is there better than 9 cubic feet of cement in these things?
GG

Click to expand...

The refractory liner weighs about 850 lbs . http://www.budgetcastingsupply.com/Castable_Refractory_Kast-0-Lite-26-LI.php

Pictured the refractory liner .

Allan, has that liner been cured? It might weigh less once it is fired and the moisture is driven out.
Vince

hobbyheater · Feb 21, 2012

Vince said:
Allan, has that liner been cured? It might weigh less once it is fired and the moisture is driven out.
Vince

The liner has not been cured . Refractory weight goes up as its temperaure limit goes up .
In Jetstream refractory base there is 7038 cubic inches of refractory .

A kast-o-lite 2600 F refractory the liner would weigh 350 lbs . Kast-o-lite 2600 F / 55lbs = 1105 cubic inches .

Versaflow 60 Plus 3100 F refractory the liner would weigh 605 lbs . Versaflow 60 plus / 55lbs = 638 cubic inches .

hobbyheater · Feb 21, 2012

huffdawg said:
Yes , by keeping the secondary door open slightly with the bypass damper open and of course not turning the fan on.

Will be down your way Wed. afternoon around 2:30 PM . Going to be home ?

BulldogAcres · Feb 22, 2012

hartkem said:
I thought I was sold on the EKO 40 but have read a few posts about nozzle erosion and I dont see anywhere about being able to replace the nozzle / upper chamber concrete. I found a post where a member lined the nozzle with firebrick. Seems to me that nozzle erosion could be a potential issue in the future if the part is not replaceable.

I also really like the econoburn 150 but I am having a lot of issues getting over the $8100 price that I was quoted directly from the manufacturer. That is a whopping $2600 more than the EKO. I am also not sure if the upper chamber / nozzle concrete is replaceable on the econoburn. Are there any boilers that this part is replaceable on? Is it not a wear item?

I just got a reply from Orland EKO. The Nozzle is replaceable. Picture attached.

barkeatr · Feb 22, 2012

tHE pROFAB GASSERS gassification chambers, both indoor and outdoor are completely replacable with standard masonry firebrick. some pieces need special cuts cut out, but it can be done with a masonry blade-- on site. this is the reason i went with profab. I had to rebuld mine after my dealer drove the unit at high speed over rough roads and knocked all the fire brick around. regretfully i did not open the door untill he left and was suprised to see many brick turned to dust. i rebuilt and relined the unit in a couple of hours . anyway..this is a great feature just have your dealer make sure the brick is secure during delivery! or install brick on site or something...

woodsmaster · Feb 22, 2012

I did some research at new horrizons. To replace the refractory in the bottom of the biomass is $204 and the nozzle is $89.
the EKO 60 for the new and improved refractory in the lower chamber is $164. Didn't see a price for the nozzle.
The smaller boilers were a little less and the larger ones a little more. I didn't see prices for the brick in the top chamber
but that could probably be done with regular fire brick if needed.

Which gassifiers have replacable refractories

Member

Feeling the Heat

Minister of Fire

Feeling the Heat

Minister of Fire

Attachments

Minister of Fire

Member

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Attachments

Minister of Fire

mikefrommaine

Guest

mikefrommaine

Guest

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Attachments

mikefrommaine

Guest

Minister of Fire

Member

Minister of Fire

Attachments

Minister of Fire

Member

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Member

Attachments

Member

Minister of Fire

Similar threads