VC Defiant & Encore Catalytic Stoves Operations

VCBurner said:

The fireplace block off sounds like a great idea. By reflecting the heat out of the back area and into the kitchen, I think it'll keep the firepace from absorbing all that usefull heat. I think your kitchen will be much warmer and you will be able to burn it on lower temps. Is there any way of improving the R value of your home?

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My kitchen is already warm and the Encore does a nice job of heating it. But, if it circulated heat better, I would be able to stretch out the burn times longer, which would also reduce wood consumption. The back block-off plate would be a small investment and worth the experiment.

In regards to improving the R-value, two thirds of the home is stone walls. Not much can be done to the walls as it applies to insulation. All of the windows and doors should be replaced throughout the house, though. The tightness of the house can be improved, but it will not be as easy, or as cheap, as it would be for a modern home.

Due to this, my goal was to have the wood stove heating sorted out first and then move on to insulation upgrades. The reason behind this was due to cost. Replacing all the doors and windows will cost 20 to 30 thousand while also paying 4 to 6 thousand a winter on heating oil.

VCBurner said:

Wow, Browning, sounds like you've got it all planned out, but as with all good things, it'll take time. Are your stone walls exposed from the inside or are they covered by something like plaster or drywall?

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Some are exposed, some are plaster. I have monitored the temps between the exposed stone and the plastered stone. I have not seen a noticeable difference in terms of heat retention.

I worked on one job where the precast walls were sprayed from the inside with expandable foam insulation.

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I have looked into the expansion insulation. It is a possible solution for the 'crawl space' under the flooring and the ceiling in the spring room and attic. I have also found expansion insulation that you can do yourself but I am unsure of its quality at this point.

As far as the stoves, I would have done the same. Since your insulation is not easily rectified. Sounds like you are almost there with the stove selection. I too have obtained 5 different stoves in the past 4 years. I would say I'm not done by a long shot! Too many different things out there.

I certainly enjoy reading your posts.

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Thank you for the kind words. I am at the point that I have plenty of heat. Now I am trying to extend burn times to improve quality of life and reduce fuel consumption.

Got the cat to engage at 450° tonight, which is good. Got too much smoke coming out of the chimney, which is bad. I'm letting it go for a bit to see if the cat disengages or the smoke lessens.

I don't get it. The cat is clearly engaged, and I have an ass load of smoke out of the chimney.

Update/progress: Issue seems to be the fuel more than anything.

Current load I was able to engage the cat at 450° like I want/need to do. Cat was glowing. Still had some smoke, but not a lot. When I started to decrease the air is when I consistently get more smoke. Cat will still glow, but the glow slowly begins to fade. After a lot of back and forth, the air is 75% closed with some smoke, but not a disturbing amount.

Based on previous reading on cats this seems to mean the fuel is the issue since the cat crashes when air is restricted.

I still need the probe, and it's a little disappointing that I will not be able to test the stove as well as I would have liked before spring, but I feel more confident that with better fuel I will be able to engage the stove at a low temp. Will it stay at that temp is the question that remains.

I happy I am closer to a solution. A little surprised that the Defiant is more sensitive than the Encore.

VCBurner said:

BrowningBAR said:

I don't get it. The cat is clearly engaged, and I have an ass load of smoke out of the chimney.

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How do you know on those stoves if the cat has lit off? Is the cat visible?

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Yes. You can see the Assembly reflecting the glow of the cat.

VCBurner said:

There are two thermostatically controlled air intakes on that stove right? Are they both working well?

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Seems to be. I think I am going to remove the cover and see what's going on back there during a burn.

Whoever the poster was that mentioned having a big bed of coals to achieve the longest burns was very accurate. The big bed of coals adds two to six hours to the burn. I did two overnight burns with a small bed of coals and the stove was at about 200 within eight hours. With a big bed of coals 10-14 hours is reachable consistently.

Two to three splits are giving me 5-7 hours of heat on a big bed of coals consistently. This is really nice and unexpected to a certain degree. Right now this is the only way to burn low due to the stove being a little more finicky with the wood. Right now I am at the tail end of a two split burn. Started it at 11:30am and I will probably add more at about 5-5:30. It's warm here today, about 55, and I don't really need to burn, but I would rather waste some wood now, than waste a lot of wood next winter. You always burn through more wood than you would normally when you get a new stove and burning now, during mild temps, I will waste less wood than if this were a ramp up to real winter temps.

Still having issues with smoke and the cat, but to a lesser degree. I will be doing some maintenance to the stove and make sure everything is in proper order this summer. Cat probe will also be installed. Right now, I would say the majority of the issue is the fuel. Probably about 90% of the problems can be attributed to the cause of the smoke.

You should just let me borrow that 2n1 for the next '5 to 10 years' so I can properly test it out. :cheese:

Thank you for the visuals, though. I suspected it would be installed kind of like that. What does the readout look like and where does it sit?

burnout said:

Diabel said:

Sorry it was 4" not 6

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Awesome, thanks man. Think I will order mine today.

I looked my cat over two days ago. It was mildly warped. The honeycomb part looked fine, just the metal around it was a tiny bit warped. I think this will help take the guess work out of it. Thanks for the info.

BAR, I pretty much have the same problems as you on this one. Maybe it is the mild winter thus far. I know I have good wood. I think the technique is sound for my indications. But usually, you never know you are doing something wrong until something bad happens.

How high is your stack?

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About 18-20' from the stove's flue collar to the exit point of the liner/chimney. The stove will be moved during the summer to a chimney that is 28'-32'. Right now, I'm back to thinking a 30NC is going in where the Defiant currently is sitting based on heating capacity/purchasing costs/on going maintenance/puck-up/installation.

I paid $400 for this Defiant and I just don't think I'm going to luck into finding another 3+ cu ft cat stove in like-new condition for less than I can get the 30NC. Timed right, I can get the 30NC delivered to my door for $600 or less.

Diabel said:

Man, for 600.00 I would go for the 30!!
If it is not a centerpiece of your living room (my opinion only) and you are
prepared to feed the beast.....

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It will be going into a large walk-in fireplace, which is where the Defiant is currently located. I'm not the biggest fan of the looks of steel stoves, but it should look pretty good there.

And after buying five used stoves, three being out of state and four of them being at least 3 hour drives, having one delivered to your home sound like a damn good idea.

Of course, if I happen to run across a good deal on a T6, this plan will probably be shot to hell. :-/

VCBurner said:

Now that you have tried the Defiant it would be interesting to hear what you think about the NC30 in comparison. This Winter never really gave the Defiant a run for its money. Judging from reports around here, though, I would think the 30 would give you better service with less maintenance. The look will grow on you when it heats your home apropriately I'm sure. I don't think it looks that bad with the legs and it has a pretty good size window...

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The defiant is definitely a keeper and I think the smoke issue will go away with better fuel and a taller chimney (which it will have next year). I'll guess and say the Defiant is a little more efficient, but not by huge leaps. In the end, if I can burn for 5-7 hours of 250+ degrees on a small load and 10 hours on a full load, I'll be happy and the stove buying will finally be over.

I actually have a collection of 30NC photos that I have saved over the last two years. I am not sure whose stove this belongs to, but I suspect my installation will look as respectable as the attached photo.