Progress Hybrid Question - smoke - UPDATE

HollowHill · Jan 22, 2012

I've been experiencing a smoke odor around the right rear corner of the Progress. Woodstock sent me some door gasket to try, but I couldn't get that to work (door wouldn't close). Binko very kindly offered his expert assistance, which enabled me to make some progress, although I couldn't follow his directions exactly due to lack of availability of 1/4" gasket in my area. So, I've been experimenting to see if I could jury rig up something along the lines of what he did and I think I've come close. But, I'm still getting that smell. While staring at the stove during the initial phase after closing the bypass and turning down the air, I noticed smoke rising from the back of the stove (rear heat shield, right hand side). Come to find out, when I get that whoosh of flame (sudden igniting of the gases in the stove, not a back puff per se, but a whoof), a puff of smoke is coming out of either the rear vent area or the double wall pipe that goes into the rear vent. I can't tell which direction it's coming from. I'm a bit suspicious of the double wall pipe because the installers initially installed single wall pipe because they forgot to bring the double wall pipe (despite my email and voice mail reminding them) and when they re-installed the double wall, things didn't quite come together and he kinda jury rigged using a single pipe into the rear vent with the double wall slide over that but not quite making it to the rear vent. So, I'm leaning in the direction of that being the problem, but I have a few questions. Do any other Progress users experience visible smoke coming out the rear vent area when they have a whoosh? How could I test this out further? I'm planning on letting the fire go out, as I don't trust things if I'm seeing visible smoke (only a puff), so how do I investigate further after its out? My plan is to contact WS to get their opinion on things in the morning, but I've got a call into the installers and my thought right now is to make them come and install the #$$ double wall right. If it means that they have to re-do the ss chimney (and I think it may, because I don't think it is long enough by a smidge), then I think they should do that. Am I being unreasonable? Am I overreacting? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

chipsoflyin · Jan 22, 2012

When my stove does that I get the same thing, but no visible smoke,just the smell, could be from the air intake, from under the lid or through the cat probe hole, check to see that there is a bolt in the cat probe hole. I've found that if I let the load get started better I don't get the whoosh, I also back the air off in stages.

Waulie · Jan 22, 2012

No smoke here, HH. I do get that very faint odor from the same spot, though. The actual odor doesn't exactly smell like smoke to me.

It sounds like this is a new problem or a worsening problem for you. Have you check your screen and cat to make sure they are not plugged up?

HollowHill · Jan 22, 2012

Waulie said:
No smoke here, HH. I do get that very faint odor from the same spot, though. The actual odor doesn't exactly smell like smoke to me.

It sounds like this is a new problem or a worsening problem for you. Have you check your screen and cat to make sure they are not plugged up?

Yes, I just cleaned the screen and the cat a week and a half ago. And, yes, it does seem to be a worsening problem.

HollowHill · Jan 22, 2012

chipsoflyin said:
When my stove does that I get the same thing, but no visible smoke,just the smell, could be from the air intake, from under the lid or through the cat probe hole, check to see that there is a bolt in the cat probe hole. I've found that if I let the load get started better I don't get the whoosh, I also back the air off in stages.

Where is the cat probe hole?

chipsoflyin · Jan 23, 2012

Its on the door side, back of the stove, just under the top lip, you will see a bolt that hold nothing, that is the cat probe hole

HotCoals · Jan 23, 2012

Sounds like it's not connected right..even if that is not the area the smoke is coming out you still payed to have it done right.
It will always bother you.
Talk to them..if no action have another installer look at it..if they say it is wrong have them fix it and take the other installer to small claims.
I would think you would win.
This needs to be right.

rideau · Jan 23, 2012

Also, talk with Woodstock about the stovepipe/connection issue. They will absolutely be able to give you expert guidance.

I have not at any time had any visable smoke in my home. I do occasionally have a smoke smell, but can't decide if it is any different from experience with the Fireview. I'm very conscious of it because of posts here. I don't have a problem with the "whoosh" except when I put paper in the stove. Then the whole thing can make a terrifying whoosh. Once, when I started a top down fire and had several pieces of paper wrapped around some twigs, starting from a cold start, the paper ignited with a tremendous whoosh as I closed the door, and the entire stovepipe vibrated like crazy. I avoid paper, and if I do use it, use one or two pieces, crumpled, in the bottom of the firebox. I would strongly recommend against using newspaper at the top of the firebox to start a top down fire.
This stove has its idiosyncrisies and definitely has a learning curve, but I'm very pleased with my purchase. The stove is very handsome and,essentially, easy to use, and heats the home very well.

fire_man · Jan 23, 2012

Hollowhill:

It's not uncommon for me to get a "Woof" followed by a small puff of smoke escaping from the air intake (butterfly valve). All my stoves have occasionally done this especially during warmer temperatures - it's from too low ehaust draft. You may have posted this before, but can you repeat what your chimney setup is? Do you have an insulated 6" SS liner? How tall?

HollowHill · Jan 23, 2012

UPDATE: Talked to Woodstock today. They are sending me a door with the gasketing already in place as they'd like it. They also took a look at the double wall install into the stove and didn't like what they saw. They are sending me the necessary adapters to make it right, even tho that is really the responsibility of the installer who installed it. But, they are going the extra mile to make sure that it is up to snuff. Hopefully that will be installed on Wed afternoon and we'll see how those adjustments work. Woodstock is being fantastic about this whole issue and working very hard and very quickly to resolve it. Can't say enough good things about their customer service.

ControledBurn · Jan 23, 2012

I would trust Woodstock to give you good advice. Time to get a second opinion on your install. Ours has single wall, top vent for the interior chimney. We have no wood smell, no smoke (Yikes!) no woofing. There is a hard wired smoke detector approx 7 ft above the stove, and thus far we have no troubles when loading. We'll see if that changes with a cold start in shoulder season. So far, so good.
Another opinion from a good installer should get things right.

Backwoods Savage · Jan 23, 2012

I have to agree about a second opinion on that flue. It just does not sound right.

Congratulations again to Woodstock for going that extra mile.

HollowHill · Jan 23, 2012

Unfortunately, I don't really have anyone to get a second opinion from. These installers are just about the only game in town and they aren't even in town, they're about 50 miles away and cover a large territory. So, they will be doing the re-install with WS's parts, which they are shipping overnite to get here in time for Wed afternoon, which was the only time the installer could come. I will definitely take more pics of the outcome and sent to WS for approval.

fire_man · Jan 23, 2012

Yup, good old Central NY, where even the cows get lonely. I do miss it.

You can count on Woodstock to help you through this.

binko · Jan 24, 2012

One thing to keep in mind is that no stove is 100 % air tight. When you get the whoosh of instant ignition of gases, they are expanding faster than the chimney can normally suck it up. That is why it will also escape any place where there is the slightest opportunity. Although no stove is COMPLETELY air tight, any opening-no matter how miniscule will usually be leaking inward. There are areas in stoves where you may have dead air that is not moving toward the chimney. It is this dead area where care has to be taken for a good seal. I believe the door on the Progress may be one such area. This is why they put the flapper on the inside of the door to minimize smoke escape during reload. I believe that most of the problems remain at the door sealing.

Waulie · Jan 24, 2012

You know, just the last couple days, I have been getting a ton of smoke spillage during reload. Yesterday it was relatively warm out and the dryer was running so I didn't think much about. It happened again this morning though. This is new. I have not had this issue at all up until now. I'm going to check the cat and screen this evening to make sure they're not clogged. Not sure what else the issue could be. The stove seems to be operating as normal with the door shut.

binko · Jan 24, 2012

This is one of the side benefits of the Exhausto fan. When I reload, I turn the fan on full speed first. Now I can reload without even having to open the bypass-no smoke leaks out.

fire_man · Jan 24, 2012

I think one of the strong points of the Progress also became a weakness.

The stove reaches reload temps quicker than the Fireview because when the bypass is open, the flue gases don't shoot straight up the flue anymore. The smoke and heat is forced to pass thru the iconel screen, and wind thru the top chamber of the stove before exiting out the back. This gets the stove up to temp fast, but is much more restrictive, and contributes to the smoke spillage problem. I have also noticed more smoke spillage on reloads since it got warmer out, but in my case I removed that darned baffle so I could load easier. :grrr:

Waulie · Jan 24, 2012

Well, I think I see the problem. My screen is about half blocked by flyash. I haven't cleaned it yet (about a month of 24/7 burning). I'm a little bummed that it has clogged so fast since I would rather not let the rock go cold once a month. I need to wait a while yet to clean it, but I'll report back to confirm that's the problem.

I really haven't had any smoke spillage at all before yesterday. I haven't removed the smoke baffle though. I don't find it gets in the way too much, only if you're really trying to get that one last split tucked top front. I usually don't bother stuffing it that full.

fire_man · Jan 25, 2012

Waulie said:
Well, I think I see the problem. My screen is about half blocked by flyash. I haven't cleaned it yet (about a month of 24/7 burning). I'm a little bummed that it has clogged so fast since I would rather not let the rock go cold once a month. I need to wait a while yet to clean it, but I'll report back to confirm that's the problem.

I really haven't had any smoke spillage at all before yesterday. I haven't removed the smoke baffle though. I don't find it gets in the way too much, only if you're really trying to get that one last split tucked top front. I usually don't bother stuffing it that full.

WS told me some people get much more fly ash than others, they were not sure why. I just checked my screen (stove is stone cold) after burning over a Month 24/7 and it was really clean. I pulled the combustor and there was almost no ash in there. My wood is pretty dry, 3 years seasoned oak.

Ciccio was right about something he said a while ago, the screen gets difficult to slide over itself when it has been heated. It takes a little twiddling to get that screen back in, but it fits.
I'll bet some smoke problems will eventually get traced to clogged screens.

WarmInIowa · Feb 19, 2012

Hollowhill; I'm having the same issue you had. I carefully replaced the door gasket according to the instructions and now I can't get the door closed. I was able to get it closed for the 6 hours to let the stove cement cure by taking the hinge pins off and starting with the latch side. But then I'm only able to get the top hinge pin back in which won't work to operate that way.

I am not confindent I did the gasketing well, but I did follow the directions. I used the lighter graphite gasket and here is what I did.
I removed the door, took out the white 1/2" rope gasket. At this point you can see another piece of rope gasket installed but it is hard, like a rock so i assume it has cement in it and left it. Then I installed the thin, adhesive backed flat gasket in the channel in the door, where the white gasket was that I removed.

On top of this went stove cement, then the piece of 1/2" graphite gasket. Then done and tried to close the door - no go. I pushed with all my might and I ended up pushing the stove sideways, but the door won't close. Grrrrr. Getting, frustrated now....

They also sent two pieces of the white gasket, so I could remove the gasket I just installed and try that. Does anybody have any suggestions?

HollowHill · Feb 19, 2012

WarmInIowa said:
Hollowhill; I'm having the same issue you had. I carefully replaced the door gasket according to the instructions and now I can't get the door closed. I was able to get it closed for the 6 hours to let the stove cement cure by taking the hinge pins off and starting with the latch side. But then I'm only able to get the top hinge pin back in which won't work to operate that way.

I am not confindent I did the gasketing well, but I did follow the directions. I used the lighter graphite gasket and here is what I did.
I removed the door, took out the white 1/2" rope gasket. At this point you can see another piece of rope gasket installed but it is hard, like a rock so i assume it has cement in it and left it. Then I installed the thin, adhesive backed flat gasket in the channel in the door, where the white gasket was that I removed.

On top of this went stove cement, then the piece of 1/2" graphite gasket. Then done and tried to close the door - no go. I pushed with all my might and I ended up pushing the stove sideways, but the door won't close. Grrrrr. Getting, frustrated now....

They also sent two pieces of the white gasket, so I could remove the gasket I just installed and try that. Does anybody have any suggestions?

Oh, man, this brings back memories. I currently have the graphite gasket in. I'd take out the other piece of rope that was with the first gasket, I guess. You may need to use a screw driver to get it out. Then try with the gaskets they sent you. Or better yet, wait until you can talk to WS and see what they have to say. They have sent me another gasket combo to try, but I can't bear to wrestle with that right now, especially since they want you to wait 24 hours after installing with the furnace cement. I think I'll wait til spring

3fordasho · Feb 27, 2012

I'd like to know if anyone has actually solved the smoke (burnt) smell issue.. Mine shows up when the draft is fully closed which is where I like to be for an overnight burn.
I do have some new 1/2" rope gasket to install in the door, but it looks like that is what is already there. It's also my understanding that my stove (late January build) should already have any updates WS had done in regards to door sealing.

Yesterday I installed new cat screens, and cleaned the cat. Loaded the stove about 8:30 and let the wood get well chared (good 30-45mn of slowing closing the draft), finally closed the draft and went to bed. Wife came up abit later and asked why the stove stinks?

I know I can mostly avoid the smell by cracking open the draft contol, but then I really get to much heat for overnight burns and not enough coals in the morning. With if fully closed the coal and restart situation is much better.

As a footnote- I think others have mentioned, the smell isn't quite your typical smoke smell, more like something is burnt, gotten too hot? Not like when the fireview "woofs" and blows smoke out the top.

Nater · Feb 27, 2012

Mine was a mid January build and I get no smoke smell, unless I fully close the draft shortly after stuffing a load in. When I do that, I get the typical smoke smell because of the back puffing / woofing. I simply open the draft very slightly, maybe 1/8 of an inch and it goes away. I don't see any noticeable change in heat output or burn times.

fire_man · Feb 27, 2012

I have a theory that some of the "burnt smoke" smells may be due to stalled combustors. I had the smell for the first time 2 weeks ago, draft was all the way to zero and there was smoke pouring out the chimney flue. I opened the air just a tiny bit, and the outdoor smoke trail vanished, and so did the indoor smell. I'm not saying all smoke smells are from stalled cats, but mine seemed to be related that day. I'm thinking the firebox gets overloaded w/ smoke plus a a lousy draft.

Progress Hybrid Question - smoke - UPDATE

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