new stove user w/ an old VC Vigilant

Welcome to the forums! You have a fine heater there and as long as you take care of it and run it hot it should treat you just fine.

As for your questions:

650-675 a not worming temperatures for tht stove. I used to get mine up to 600 plus before closing the damper. Once it is shut down you will probably see a drop into the 500s or so.

You will not smell smoke from the stove throughout the gaskets when the stove ia running for the stove will be pulling air into the stove. You may smell smoke if there is a back puffing situation, but this would be the case even if the gaskets were fine.

Yes, those stoves do require a rebuild every few years to reseql the joints with cement. The rebuild is really not that bad and there are people here who can provide you the rebuild manual ( I had it but mistakenly deleted it after I got the new stove this past summer)

If you want to see if the joints are open, you can put a flashlight in the stove to see if any light is escaping. Another way I would check every so often is to run
a match along the joints- if the flame is sucked in, then you have a joint open.

Good luck with the stove and enjoy the tremendous heat it provides!

rawlins02 said:

Also, I'm aware that 450-550 is optimal temperature, but just curious if occasional runs up to 650-675 are fine if I need the heat.

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It is more than fine. With a good draft and cold weather, this stove can run hot even with the air shut. With the stove in horizontal burn I have had the griddle temps in excess of 700 with the front doors touching 800. I wouldn't shoot for those numbers on a regular basis, but it can handle them just fine.

The warped fireback can be replaced, however, they do not make the one piece fireback any longer. There is a two piece fireback kit that can be ordered that includes two new sides for the stove with it. If you are going to tear down the whole stove you may as well replace the fireback while you are at it.

When you have time, take a look at the fireback lower right corner near the secondary combustion chamber- it is very likely that you will see a crack in the fireback going right to left from the secondary burn chamber. This is not uncommon on the Vigilants.

Although it is not too difficult rebuilding the stove, you may want to seriously consider your option of upgrading to some new technology.

rawlins02 said:

I certainly am considering a new stove. I'm a bit cash poor right now having just bought this house, so I'll probably keep this stove going another season or two.

Do newer stoves require disassembly every few years? Something tells me most folks would be reluctant to tackle that kind of work.

Another question: What is the secret to getting this stove quickly up to 450-500 F? It's been crawling along at 350 F for nearly an hour now. I've got everything open and the doors slight ajar. It got to 300 F in about 15 minutes. I then added a couple 6 inch or so splits. To date I have not had 2-3 inch pieces to add to my small initial fires. Is that key? Another factor is there's absolutely no wind and it's sunny and nearly 40F right now. Guess draw is holding it back. I've read that these stoves should get to 500F in about 30-45 minutes.

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I would suspect the warmer temps are having an effect on your draft. I am having the same issue today.

I usually place a few smaller splits under the large ones to get things going.

rawlins02 said:

I certainly am considering a new stove. I'm a bit cash poor right now having just bought this house, so I'll probably keep this stove going another season or two.

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I have purchased five stoves over the last four winters. All used. All were in very good condition. There are deals out there for used stoves, especially in the Northeast. You can get a damn fine stove for $400-500 if you search enough and are willing to travel a bit to get to the stove.

Do newer stoves require disassembly every few years? Something tells me most folks would be reluctant to tackle that kind of work.

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The majority of the stove? No. Modern VC stoves require more maintenance than most stoves, though.

Another question: What is the secret to getting this stove quickly up to 450-500 F? It's been crawling along at 350 F for nearly an hour now. I've got everything open and the doors slight ajar. It got to 300 F in about 15 minutes. I then added a couple 6 inch or so splits. To date I have not had 2-3 inch pieces to add to my small initial fires. Is that key? Another factor is there's absolutely no wind and it's sunny and nearly 40F right now. Guess draw is holding it back. I've read that these stoves should get to 500F in about 30-45 minutes.

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Sounds like wet wood. With good kindling, dry wood, and a good draft you should be able to have a griddle temp of 550° within the 15-30 minutes. Even quicker with the right sized splits and kindling. Even on warmer days you should be able to get the stove going quicker.

Are you using a liner or is the stove just venting into a chimney?

I also suspect your wood is not quite ready. The Vig has no firebrick inside to impede rising temps. With dry wood you can get that stove up to 750° inside half an hour. It'll eat that damp wood fine once you get the stove real hot, but a 6" round of wet wood is gonna sit there smoldering and
up your pipe. Vigilants are notorious for producing creosote if you let them sit and smolder at low temps.

Methinks it's time you got yourself a Fiskars. Split those rounds in two and your stove will sigh with joy.

Did you find the keyhole? It is a little flap at the lower back corner on the left side (as you face the front of stove).

I highly suggest the "top down" burning method. I tried it last year for the first time (after reading about it in this forum) and it changed my life. set the stove in Vertical burn mode. Put a couple of large splits on the bottom, put a mix of middle size and smaller splits on top of the big ones (short ones for N/S orientation work well here) a third layer of very small splits/kindling mixed in with several knots or tight wads of newspaper.

Light the news paper wads. This quickly gets a draft going because you have flames at the top of the stack. Soon the kindling will light, followed by the small splits. Keep the air wide open and pretty soon you'll have a fully engulfed fire. After the fire is going really good I close the left door all the way and leave the right door open about an inch. This creates a strong Venturi effect and really fans the flames. I leave it like that until the griddle top temp reaches 675 to 700. At that point I close the door and put it in horizontal mode with the primary air still open most of the way. The fire will usually stabilize around 550 or so. I let it cruise at that temp.

After a while I've got some great coals and the bottom splits are burning nicely. I'll load more wood through the top door. Kick it over to vertical again so the new wood can get a good char going, then go back to horizontal. I repeat this at bedtime. Pack the box full, get it burning really good. Put it in horizontal again, shut the air down and go to bed.

Try the top down method on your start up. It will make a huge difference.

Mike, I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. The primary is on the BACK of the stove near the left face. It is a thin, aluminum flap with a little handle and a chain attached to it, along with a coil spring so that it acts as a thermostat. It is on the BACK WALL.

The secondary is the KEYHOLE flap on the left face of the stove NOT THE BACK. If you are looking at the left face of the stove, in the lower left corner OF THE LEFT FACE OF THE STOVE there is a little tear drop flap attached loosely to the side of the stove with a screw. This flap swivels left or right to allow a smaller amount of air to enter the stove. This allows air into the back chamber of the stove. This air is drawn into the firebox by five holes in the lower part of the fireback. The primary air enters the firebox through a tube that opens up just to the left of the left door.

Let us know if you find that keyhole or I won't be able to sleep tonight.

Have you seen the five holes in the fireback in the back of the firebox? When it's hot in the box, even with the doors and primary closed off, with the keyhole (secondary) open the draft will pull air through the keyhole and into the firebox through the holes in the fireback. This is sufficient to keep the fire going for long, overnight burns. If your stove is well tuned and tight there will be very little air intake with the primary closed and the doors shut. That keyhole will be the only source of air and it does a great job of keeping the fire going- not raging, but going, so that you should still have a nice warm stove in the morning. If the secondary is closed you'll most likely have a smoldering, smoky fire all night.

I'm sure others can explain it better.

Hi Mike, thought I would add my two pence worth here. I own and run a Vigilant like you. It is in a bungalow with a short wide chimney and I have no trouble at all getting it to draw well. One thing you could check is that there is plenty of air getting to the stove, I know you said that the house is not well sealed but it is an easy thing to do. Open an outside window in the room with the stove when its running, (about an inch) and see if it helps. See if you can feel an incoming cold airflow from the window. Don't worry about cooling the room off as the stove puts out a lot of heat!!
I my opinion that little keyhole on the left side is a 'set it and forget it' adjustment. It allows a small and controllable minimum amount of air into the stove to compensate for different chimney draughts. If you think your draught is low then open it wide and don't touch it again. Mine is set so that the opening is 90% open and seems to work fine and I never touch it at all.
As has been said before that little hole in the left side feeds those 5 little holes in the lower rear fireback only. The hole at the rear controlled by the thermostatic flapper valve feeds air to that large curved tube in the lower left of the firebox.
When the stove is really cold and the fire is long out try to vacuum out the left side hole just to ensure that the 5 little holes have free access to air.
When the stove is cool and nearly empty, say in the morning after an all night burn, what I do is scrape the hot coals to the left side of the firebox. Carefully and very slowly shovel lots of the hot ash gently into a metal bucket held right up to the open doors so that the loose flying ash is drawn up the chimney. Get as much ash out of the right side of the stove as possible, right down to the ridges in the floor. Then gently push ash from the left side back to the right side so that about an inch remains over the entire floor. Make sure that the five little holes in the fireback are completely clear by poking them with a spike. Also clear out underneath the large air tube on the lower left. It has concealed holes right underneath the pipe!! It is all a balance between letting the ash build up and cover those 5 holes and the air tube on the left and finding a good time to empty the ash!
By the way I agree with the earlier comments about dry wood. With a clean chimney, a good air supply and dry wood it is quite hard not to melt the stove and anything within 10 feet of it.
Peter

Rawlins, don't be afraid to let the ash build up. As long as it doesn't fall out the door when you open it, or block off the air holes in the fireback, you'll find the extra insulation will keep the stove warmer longer and that you'll use less wood. I also make sure that the air path coming out of the primary (round tube in front) is clear the entire width of the stove.


Peter said: <<<Also clear out underneath the large air tube on the lower left. It has concealed holes right underneath the pipe!! >

I've never noticed air holes beneath the pipe and have never before heard them mentioned. Are you sure your pipe is not rusted out, thus the holes? Or perhaps it was a custom, drilled out job?

I'll have to go inspect mine.

Ill check mine for those holes as well, and ill do it tonight and report back here as my stove is currently stone cold... and i just cleaned it out yesterday.

I always start the stove with the right hand door cracked open....

Also, not sure if this is safe or not, but a few times I have had the left door glowing orange... prolly not a good thing...

my primary damper (the big door on top that blocks the chimney) the handle broke off long ago. However I rarely close that door... when I do, It seems to really run down the temp of the stove itself... like its smoldering, only on certain occasions have i been able to succesfully close that door and actually have the stove get hotter...

with that said, i use a pair of channel locks to turn that handle...

and a pair of welding gloves to do any kind of interaction with the stove while it has a fire going...

as far as that stupid lil door on the back? I never really played with it to be honest, always left it 'open' same with the keyhole.

On a side note, ABSOLUTELY make SURE that whatever ash you remove from the stove, goes IMMEDIATELY outside. I use an old milk jug to store my old ash... I have seen the ash inside that jug be hot for up to two weeks after putting the ash in there (of course I usually fill up the jug before emptying it - about 4 cleanouts)

Ducky said:

my primary damper (the big door on top that blocks the chimney) the handle broke off long ago. However I rarely close that door... when I do, It seems to really run down the temp of the stove itself... like its smoldering, only on certain occasions have i been able to succesfully close that door and actually have the stove get hotter...

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That damper really needs to be open when you start the fire or you'll never get enough draft going to get a good, hot fire. However, You should never close it until the fire is going really good and hot. If the wood is really burning good and the griddle temp is 600-700 degrees for a while, THEN you can close the 'damper' (it's not really a damper) and with the primary air (little door in the back) open you should be able to maintain a nice warm stove for a long time, though the griddle temp may drop down to 450 or so after a while.

with that said, i use a pair of channel locks to turn that handle...

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Not pretty but effective.

and a pair of welding gloves to do any kind of interaction with the stove while it has a fire going...

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good plan and welding gloves are cheaper than 'fireplace gloves.

as far as that stupid lil door on the back? I never really played with it to be honest, always left it 'open' same with the keyhole.

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You need to learn how to use that 'stupid lil door' properly. It will back a world of difference in controlling your heat output, and length of burn.
When you leave it open you'll burn through your wood quickly. I get my stove up good and hot at bedtime, then close the primary air (aka 'stupid lil door) and just leave the key hole open and go to bed. In the morning I still have a warm stove and good coals that make it easy to get a fire going again.